Snake's Custom 125g Idea

[snakeblitz33]

Hello Guys and Gals,
My wife and I talked about setting up a 180g next year after we move and get established and into a routine. This tank is not going to be built for a very, very long time. It may evolve into something completely different over the next year. This is just a design that I am kicking around in my head for the time being. I want ya'lls opinions and suggestions. I'm really open to anything at the moment. I know one thing for sure: This tank will be an SPS and Clam dominated tank.
This will be my lifelong personal tank. I don't plan on going bigger than this, ever. I've had a 240g before, and it was a pain in the butt to maintain. I also like Acrylic because you can always modify it and tune it to the way you want to do things. It's a lot more forgiving than glass over the lifetime of the tank.
This is what I am thinking so far: Tank: 72x24x24 Rear Chamber: 3.5x72

The tank will be custom built out of 3/4" acrylic. Solid built! I don't mind paying the extra for something so sturdy. Also, the back acrylic will be black. I know, more expensive, but it's completely worth it for aesthetics. I'm building it myself. The two standpipe looking things are actually returns on either side of the tank. The two middle holes/bulkheads are 1 1/2" drains. The top will be eurobraced, I couldn't figure out how to do it in Google Sketchup.
The returns will push water into the tank on either side from the sump. The water will overflow evenly across the back of the tank down a (few) algae scrubber screens that will be maintained often. Of course, teeth will be cut out at the top of the black acrylic. The rectangular box thing on the back of the tank is a T5HO freshwater light 4x unit, that will be mounted on the wall behind the tank, and easily removed when necessary. This tank is big enough to have a closed loop, which is exactly what I am going to do.
The Closed Loop: Maybe running a Reeflo Dart on an Oceans Motions four way unit. The Dart is rated at 3800gph at 0ft of head, so that will put it at 21x internal turnover rate. Instead of two closed loop returns in the picture, I plan on having four. Two in front, blowing at the corals and two on the sides. Hopefully, I can get some decent water flow going through the system. I'm going to play with the loclines quite a bit.
The Sump: I plan on having a lot of open space underneath the tank. I plan on using a custom built sump, 20x36x20. I want the other half of the underneath of the stand for equipment. The sump will have a small space for a sand bed and macro refugium, just in case I want to customize it more. I'm going to use a three tier box filtration system, carbon pillow, GFO pillow, and filter floss. Maybe run a Polyfilter in it occasionally. I plan on having most of the live rock in the sump and in the DT, two small islands connected by an "overpass." you get the idea.
The Equipment: Recirc skimmer, I'm thinking an Octopus, ASM or SWC Cone. Something pretty substantial to back up the algae scrubber. I'm also going to invest in a calcium reactor and a kalkwasser stirrer. I have never personally used one, however, I am extremely intrigued and ready to step it up a notch. For lighting, I plan on 3, 250w 14k metal halides backed by four actinic true blue T5HO lamps. The lighting system will be mounted in a canopy until it's moved into a more permanent location (A house.) I've heard a great deal about Vortech pumps, and IF NEEDED I may invest in a couple of MP40s for the sides of the tank.
Questions:
1. Do you think that the Reeflo Dart would be a good choice for the 180 SPS reef?
2. Do you think that going barebottom would make the tank run too sterile for the intended inhabitants?
3. With such a large algae scrubber, do you think it would even be necessary to run a skimmer, at least at first?
4. Is there any modifications that you can think of?
5. If I run an algae scrubber and a skimmer on this tank with such a low bioload, do you think the tank would run too sterile?
6. Does the algae scrubber running on the back of the tank sound like a good idea? I think it does... it should also be easy to remove and clean. The screens will be broken up into fourths, and clean two at a time.
7. If you have any questions, PLEASE feel free to ask. I really need some critiques on this tank design. I want to get it as improved as I can before it's build time.
Thanks Guys and Gals.

 

[mr. limpid]

Everything sound good, I to like the 180 gal size its big enough but not too big. The only thing I can come up with is the flow over the algae scrubber you'll need to some way to be able to adjust it.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Lol, you adjust it by increasing or decreasing the return pumps output.

 

[mr. limpid]

Are sure you want to do that, meaning this is the flow of the entire system, i would want the max turn over rate I could get.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Yup, I'm sure.
A six foot long tank, 5 1/2 foot worth of overflow. Each 1" needs, on average 35gph of flow. That comes to about 2,310gph return pump at 5 foot of head. It can be adjusted up and down as necessary, and the entire screen doesn't have to be used at a time. Plus, I've noticed that with the algae scrubbers that I have now, you don't actually use that much water over the screen.
I've also thought about doing the tank a little differently, keeping the back chamber the way it is, but using a PVC pipe and a pump in the overflow to push water on to the screen, if I don't want to push that much GPH through the 65g sump.

 

[snakeblitz33]

You know what, the alternative sounds pretty good. I think I just changed my design up a little. Plus, it will bring the screen closer to the light. I could always use a second external pump to push water over the screen. That sounds pretty good to me...

 

[snakeblitz33]

Well, with the new design idea, I've come up with a one sided screen, 4 foot long, 13 inches wide. That equates to about 624 square inches of usable screen. Since it isn't lit on one side, you gotta take that number and divide it in half. So, a scrubber that size will handle the bioload of a 312g tank. Since this is only a 180g, I'm sure that will do nicely.
Pair this design with an efficient SWC Cone skimmer, and you got a clean tank.

 

[mr. limpid]

sound good, Yep once I'm done QT'ing fish I will set up my 10gal as a scrubber. I only have room I have left under my tank holds a 10gal tank. Then set up QT on as need bases in the laundry room. I know the wife wont mind, what hypo only take 6 to 8 weeks that isn't along time to sleep on the couch.

 

[travelerjp98]

Wow snake... this is really cool. I wish you the best luck with this journey. IDK about going bare-bottom. I like sand beds; I think they add a lot to tanks.

 

[rknapp]

Great design. Here are my thoughts for what it's worth. If you decided to go with a sand bed I believe you could use 175w mh especially if 5 or 6"s deep since the tank would now be about 18". That way you could save on the electric bill and heat. Since mh fixtures are a point source of lighting (unlike pcs or T5s which are pretty even lighting) meaning the intensity is strongest directly below the bulb and diminishes as you move away from the center in any direction you could position the high intensity animals closer to the center of the bulbs.
If you have a basement as I do you could put all your equipment down there by drilling and plumbing through the floor. I've done this with my 90gal and my sump, chiller, heater, skimmer etc. is all down there. The only thing upstairs is my tank, lights and powerheads. I have a big sink down there where I can clean my equipment without worrying about the floors upstairs.
Good luck with it. You certainly put a lot of thought into it and it shows.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I'm recently starting to not like sandbeds. (Thanks, Acrylic!, lol!) If your flow rate is too intense, it kicks up the sand and blows it all over the rock and coral - just not something that I like to happen. If I wanted to use 175w metal halides, I would make the tank shorter, but I like the 6x2x2 design the most, since the SPS corals will have more upward growth, and I can aquascape better. Deep sand beds, I don't agree with in display tanks. Deep sand beds have their place, but if I were to set one up, I would put it in two buckets, about 15" deep each. Three 250w metal halides running 6 hours a day with supplemental T5ho lights running for 10 hrs a day is plenty of light, and it shouldn't effect my electric bill too much. But, thanks for the input! I will consider going shallower for the sake of a lower electric bill. I'll think about it. Thanks.
I once read someone's philosophy of keeping SPS corals (He had a huge, gorgeous SPS dominated reef tank, that I admire), and it said that he believes in:
1. Overskimming
2. Natural filtration
3. Tanks less than 27" tall for SPS
4. Barebottom
5. calcium reactors.
I'm going to be DIYing the Ca reactor myself, as well as a GFO reactor, algae scrubber (of course) and a protein skimmer. I have a 1hp air blower! I wonder if a six foot tall air powered protein skimmer is in my future?
I really want a basement, but unfortunately, it's practically impossible to have one in the South. They flood and get water logged and damaged too easily, so homes here in the South rarely have one unless requested. Mostly it's reserved for schools and commercial businesses (think Tire and lube express.) Maybe one day I'll have a house and can convert my garage into a fish room with a built in wall tank.

 

[acrylic51]

LOL!!!!!! Like the design.......I take it the compartment is for a scrubber??? The choice of return pump is good you'd probably be better with the dart/snapper hybrid. Preferably the Snapper. Return placement is questionable IMO. They could be utilized more efficiently. You want to force or better terms keep the water flowing towards the overflow box. I'd advise glancing my build thread on water movement, and the theory behind it. I've spent a good bit of time discussing with Paul from OM's and he'd advise as well on return placement and proper flow use.
As far as sand vs BB???? You'd want to use larger grain sand to minimize blowing. I'm still leaning BB myself.
What are you planning on the euro bracing thickness? Any cross bracing planned? 3/4" material will work, but will need good cross bracing to prevent deflection. I chose 1" for that purpose. Black acrylic is quite a bit more expensive, but IMHO well worth it. I'd again suggest browsing my thread when planning CL placement ideas. You might want to consider in the bottom firing upward unplaced etc....
A side note, sched 80 bulkheads only, no need for schedule 80 pipe per Paul at OM.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Thanks for the input Acrylic, appreciated very much as always.
Yes, the back compartment is for a scrubber. I actually plan on using a separate closed loop to run the scrubber only. The design has changed a bit from the original, and I'll have to make adjustments. Is the purpose of using schedule 80 bulkheads, so that the vibrations don't cause leaks or cracks over time? If you highly recommend it, then I will go with them. They are a little more expensive, and the hole sizes are little different, so you can't switch it out for schedule 40 later. I'm also leaning toward barebottom, if it can be done tastefully. Of course, I plan on putting the tank on top of styrofoam. I'm going to get the whole styrofoam in white, (no marks) so that when you look at it, the tank will still be white on bottom. I know coralline will eventually take over.
The diagram doesn't show some of the stuff that I actually plan on doing with the tank. It doesn't show where the teeth are cut in the black acrylic. It doesn't show the two holes cut in front of the tank to blow water over the coral and to the back of the tanks overflow. I believe that I actually did copy some of your design as far as hole placement and all goes. Yes, the whole top will be eurobraced. I planned on using the same 3/4" thick acrylic for the eurobracing. Why is it better to use 1"? I'm not arguing, I just want to learn. I've never done this much acrylic work, and I will need a lot of help along the way.

 

[acrylic51]

Thicker material allows less width on the euro bracing. The panels are more rigid as well. I opted for 1" for several reasons. 1 is I want very little flex in the panels. Another is I could have gone with a narrower euro bracing, but like the large radius in the corners to distribute the stress more. You can see in my thread I had planned on external wave boxes, so added strength again. Also a stout built tank looks better IMHO. You could opt for 1/2" on the bottom panel. What is the height your planning? Thickness of bracing? Any cross bracing?
Schedule 80 bulkheads are heavy duty compared to schedule 40. Look in my thread and you'll see the difference in material thickness and gasket thickness as well. Hole sizes are different and schedule 80 costs more, but I wouldn't want cheap grade bulkheads on vital parts......CL's, bottom of the tank, or my overflow. Also think about it when you drill a 2" feed hole for your CL that big bulkhead stiffens the panel as well unlike a schedule 40 less material. You over tighten a schedule 80 by hand you have issues brother!!!!!

 

[snakeblitz33]

I have been reading through your thread and have gotten some really good ideas. I'll go with the 1" top per your reccomendation. Since its just a six foot long tank, I don't think cross bracing is needed, as long as there is adequate euro bracing on top. If this is a bad assumption, let me know. As far as the bulkheads being schedule 80, I guess it would and should be an investment worth looking into.
Any other thoughts about sanded or bare bottom?

 

[acrylic51]

Snake, length of the tank has a small portion to do with proper material sizing. What is the height of the tank?? 6' long and no cross bracing on 3/4" material is really pushing it IMO. Now if your talking about your euro bracing being made where you only have a 6"x6" cut outs in the top a different story IMO. If you look at tanks done by Envision you'll see very few done without cross bracing. Now other tank builders might, but I guarantee the owners see a good bit of deflection in the panel.
Iif your set on no cross bracing I'd use 1" panels for the sides and end and 3/4"" for top and bottom. Also a big key I perfect joints which is hard with thick material, and black acrylic is harder IMO because you really can't see the solvent flowing.
Your correct bulkheads are an investment. You will spend a lot of cash in material and countless hours in prep and mock up time, so why 1/2 it at that stage???? Invest in a good router 2 3/4hp or bigger and a quality router table and fence. Will make life a bit easier.
As far as sand and BB!!!! Really a toss up. If your planning on certain sand dwellers that dictates things to a point. A coarser sand will probably be better at staying put vs small sugar grain sand. As far as nutrient starved; striped????? Not!!!! Tons of BB tanks that have excellent colors and health. In no way would it create to sterile of an environment. These tanks mostly employ only a skimmer.

 

[snakeblitz33]

The thread title says it's a 125 design, but when I laid out the dimensions, I chose a 6x2x2 which is a 180g tank. I'm going to go look at some acrylic tank designs and stand designs a few different places and get some more ideas. I have access to really good router and router table already, that's the easy part. Sounds like I'll need at least one cross brace then, in the middle. If not two. I would like to avoid having a metal halide right above an acrylic cross brace.
I'm not set on any sand dwellers. I think of a cleanup crew "as needed" So, if I don't want a sand bed, I don't need the critters. There is going to be a lot of flow in this tank, and even in my current 20g, I have more flow than necessary and the sandbed is getting kicked up and moved around. It's annoying. I'm actually thinking about removing the sand in my current system.
This evening I plan on getting back to designing the tank and making some tweeks in Google Sketchup. There's also a design of a HOB turf algae scrubber that I am working on. I'll share if ya'll want.

 

[travelerjp98]

I sure want to see the plans!

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/388662/snakes-custom-125g-idea#post_3429448
The thread title says it's a 125 design, but when I laid out the dimensions, I chose a 6x2x2 which is a 180g tank. I'm going to go look at some acrylic tank designs and stand designs a few different places and get some more ideas. I have access to really good router and router table already, that's the easy part. Sounds like I'll need at least one cross brace then, in the middle. If not two. I would like to avoid having a metal halide right above an acrylic cross brace.
I'm not set on any sand dwellers. I think of a cleanup crew "as needed" So, if I don't want a sand bed, I don't need the critters. There is going to be a lot of flow in this tank, and even in my current 20g, I have more flow than necessary and the sand bed is getting kicked up and moved around. It's annoying. I'm actually thinking about removing the sand in my current system.
This evening I plan on getting back to designing the tank and making some tweeks in Google Sketchup. There's also a design of a HOB turf algae scrubber that I am working on. I'll share if ya'll want.
I would like to see the plans as well......
Have you thought about changing the layout or dimensions of the tank???? A big key or issue a lot of times is material waste or loss IMO......Using the basic/stock dimensions you listed doesn't give the greatest of yields per sheet.....When searching out your material don't look for standard 48x96 sheets.....Get price quotes on over sized sheets. That's what I did, and got better yields out of it that way.
What I'm suggesting on size isn't to change the size of the tank, but layout and easy and ascetics of the tank, would possibly be better if your dimensions were something like 48"Lx36"Wx 24"H.....Still yields 180 gallons. The added depth makes aquascaping easier and more possibilities as well, and with your initial plans of an internal overflow/scrubber area, you wouldn't be loosing real estate as you would with the other size initially stated.
With the 48"x36"x24", using 1" thick acrylic you could get your front, left and right panels out of a clear sheet.....You had mentioned doing black for the back, which I like a lot, but if your considering going BB, I'd recommend the bottom in black as well. That way you don't see the styrofoam at all under the tank. Something I wish I had did, but hindsight is 20/20 at times.......
You would need a sheet of black 1" which you could get the bottom and back panel out of with leftover. You would though need a sheet if your buying full sheets for the top panel. This if the tank is built correctly should be done out of a solid panel/sheet. Don't piece things together in this area.
I keep suggesting using 1" for the fact that you don't really want cross bracing, so your building custom you might as well not skimp and build it exactly as you want. With using 1" you won't need to use any cross bracing.....

 

[snakeblitz33]

I got sick last night and today. I got some meds that is making me feel really lousy. I don't have the energy or even feel like dealing with google sketchup tonight and maybe even tomorrow. Just need to rest and relax. Sorry guys.