overanalyzer
Active Member
I am askign a two part question ....
1.) Have you had both a small and large tank?
2.) which is easier?
1.) Have you had both a small and large tank?
2.) which is easier?
so - does SIZE matter?? Which is easier
- Thread starter overanalyzer
- Start date
overanalyzer
Active Member
I had the following tanks:
5 gallon
20 gallon
140 gallon
The 140 was just sold but I had a much easier time setting up and mainting the water levels with the 20 than any tank.
The 5 was pretty hellish - but after 2 months it was humming right along ....
The 140 took FOREVER - 3 months - to get he water levels perfect .... and when I finally did get it there I spent 1 month battling hair algea ... then we started talking about moving ....
Of course one day I will set up a nice large tank again - once we get settled somewhere ....
5 gallon
20 gallon
140 gallon
The 140 was just sold but I had a much easier time setting up and mainting the water levels with the 20 than any tank.
The 5 was pretty hellish - but after 2 months it was humming right along ....
The 140 took FOREVER - 3 months - to get he water levels perfect .... and when I finally did get it there I spent 1 month battling hair algea ... then we started talking about moving ....
Of course one day I will set up a nice large tank again - once we get settled somewhere ....
fishtanker
Member
have a 125gal and had a 10gal nano..the nano was much easier to care for IMO. the 125gal still has algae problems...never had any algae in the nano. i do think the nano was easier becasue of my experience in the hobby.
broncofish
Active Member
It's no secret what I think Jerome, nanos are easier if your exp'd and pay lots of attentions to the details. What is this Stacy's Mom crap. By the way my e-mail server is down again at work Overanalyzer so call me tonight at home.
overanalyzer
Active Member
NICE - man I am in love with Stacy's Mom ....
just saw the video for the first time ... nice hommage to Fast Times @ Ridgemont High and Rachel Hunter in leather ....
needless to say .... sweet!
just saw the video for the first time ... nice hommage to Fast Times @ Ridgemont High and Rachel Hunter in leather ....
needless to say .... sweet!
007
Active Member
I didnt vote as I don't feel that I can give an honest answer. i can't really say which one is easier, because I have never had a bigger tank, but i can speculate.
While I feel that any tank is difficult to set up for the first saltwater tank, I dont think that it would have mattered if I set up a 20 or 200. It would have involved the same learning curve either way.
However, now that I have been doing this for about two years, I definitely think that a smaller tank is easier. For the simple fact that the required maintenance is considerably less than that involved with a larger tank (or so I imagine)
For example, I can do a 5% water change on my tank is less than five minutes. With a larger tank, this would be a lot more difficult (unless you have a nice set up that is plumbed with drain and fill valves). Cleaning equipment is easier and faster as well as there is less to clean.
IMO a smaller tank is just that much easier to manage.
While I feel that any tank is difficult to set up for the first saltwater tank, I dont think that it would have mattered if I set up a 20 or 200. It would have involved the same learning curve either way.
However, now that I have been doing this for about two years, I definitely think that a smaller tank is easier. For the simple fact that the required maintenance is considerably less than that involved with a larger tank (or so I imagine)
For example, I can do a 5% water change on my tank is less than five minutes. With a larger tank, this would be a lot more difficult (unless you have a nice set up that is plumbed with drain and fill valves). Cleaning equipment is easier and faster as well as there is less to clean.
IMO a smaller tank is just that much easier to manage.
cprdnick
Active Member
I didn't see a choice for " I have a nano and I don't know what it would be like to care for a large tank" anywhere up there. I think as far as cleaning the glass and water changes, the nano is the easiest. But as far as having to adjust ph constantly the larger ones are probably a plus.
Clint
Clint
007
Active Member
Originally posted by JIM27
I don't have a larger reef but I do have a 180g shark tank. The 10g SPS/clam/anemone nano is MUCH MUCH harder to take care of. No doubt about it.
What do you find more difficult? And do you think that you would find the same difference in difficulty if the 180 were a reef tank?
Also, what are you lighting your sps nano with? I have long contemplated one but was always concerned about providing enough light.
nm reef
Active Member
Seems to me a smaller system is much less forgiving...you must better maintain water chemistry and there is less room for error. I don't really believe one is easier than the other...but that problems can become much more serious much quicker in a smaller system.From some of the nanos I've seen it is very obvious that they can be successful...but I'd think it takes a bit more effort than a larger system does.
jim27
Member
Originally posted by 007
What do you find more difficult? And do you think that you would find the same difference in difficulty if the 180 were a reef tank?
Also, what are you lighting your sps nano with? I have long contemplated one but was always concerned about providing enough light.
Basically what NM reef said. Smaller tanks are MUCH less forgiving. Even if the 180 was a reef I think it would be easier just for that reason. The smaller water volume means much less room for mistakes in feeding, dosing, etc. And if something dies in a nano it can give you an ammonia spike a lot easier than in a big reef.
And for my nano I use a PFO 150w de MH pendent with a 10k AB Aqualine bulb as well as a 32w PC actinic(this is real actinic, not just a blue colored PC). The lights hang about 6-8" above the tank.
007
Active Member
I know that nano's are smaller . . . and that changes occur much quicker. My anology is a drop of food colorin in a cup of water versus a gallon of water. But I guess that in my perfectionist ways it seems to me that it would be the same amount of work either way.
Now about the halide . . . its a pendant I am assuming. Do you have any heat issues?
Now about the halide . . . its a pendant I am assuming. Do you have any heat issues?
vibe
Member
well, my theory on nanos is that they are easier if paid attension to, but as well as the fact that you can skimp out on a lot of stuff. like filtration, and especially lights. with nano taks being so small, he intensity of the light is by far very high. IMO, for atleast 15 gallons and bellow do not require MH lighting. PCs are becoming very popular at the fact that they are not only power effiecient and a lot cheaper, but that they can provide the amount of intesity corals need. because of the shorter distance from the light to the bottom of the tank super intense light such as MH are not need IMO. not only is it an over amount of light and a waste(IMO again) but t also costs more to buy and run. with the moneyou save on light for a nano can go towards the corals you buy for it. they say 4 watts per gallon. for clams and other stonies, probably around 6-7 watts per gallon.
ex1- you have 400 monies and spend $300 on a MH fixture and $80 on the 150 watt bulb(15 watts per gal. definatly enough, but a lot of unneeded light). you have 20 monies left for maybe a small acro.
ex2-you have 400 monies again. you spend 120 for an 80 watt PC fixture(8 watts per gal. enough lighting). you have 280 bucks left to do what ever the heck you want with.
this is all IMO. i used ex. # 2 because its what i did. my corals have never looked healthier. good luck all and happy reefing:joy:
ex1- you have 400 monies and spend $300 on a MH fixture and $80 on the 150 watt bulb(15 watts per gal. definatly enough, but a lot of unneeded light). you have 20 monies left for maybe a small acro.
ex2-you have 400 monies again. you spend 120 for an 80 watt PC fixture(8 watts per gal. enough lighting). you have 280 bucks left to do what ever the heck you want with.
this is all IMO. i used ex. # 2 because its what i did. my corals have never looked healthier. good luck all and happy reefing:joy:
jim27
Member
007
Yes, the halide is a pendent suspended over the tank. I have an open top and get no heat issues. I use a fan in the summer time when its really hot around here.
I like the your analogy of a drop of food coloring in a cup vs a gallon, thats exactly what I'm talking about. I guess nano's aren't harder but you have to be more careful as problems arise much more quickly.
vibe
Tell all that lunchbucket over on --
. You think my lighting is a waste check out his 20g with a 400 watter .
Personaly I wouldn't try any of the crazy colored SPS under PC's but stuff like digitata's, caps, some acros, and some clams(squamosa's) can do awesome and keep there color. There are alwasy exceptions to the MH only rule(if anyone here wants to see some awesome sps/clams under PC's search for Brooklyn Johnny's tank in this forum). But IMO, and I'm sure most SPS guys will agree, if you want to seriously get into SPS and clams halides are really the best choice, even in a nano.
And about ex1.....I bought the pendent system( pendent, ballast, AND bulb) for $300 online two years ago and I've seen them lately for even less than that, everything you need included. Halides cost more but your SPS will thank you with awesome colors and growth.
Yes, the halide is a pendent suspended over the tank. I have an open top and get no heat issues. I use a fan in the summer time when its really hot around here.
I like the your analogy of a drop of food coloring in a cup vs a gallon, thats exactly what I'm talking about. I guess nano's aren't harder but you have to be more careful as problems arise much more quickly.
vibe
Tell all that lunchbucket over on --
. You think my lighting is a waste check out his 20g with a 400 watter . Personaly I wouldn't try any of the crazy colored SPS under PC's but stuff like digitata's, caps, some acros, and some clams(squamosa's) can do awesome and keep there color. There are alwasy exceptions to the MH only rule(if anyone here wants to see some awesome sps/clams under PC's search for Brooklyn Johnny's tank in this forum). But IMO, and I'm sure most SPS guys will agree, if you want to seriously get into SPS and clams halides are really the best choice, even in a nano.
And about ex1.....I bought the pendent system( pendent, ballast, AND bulb) for $300 online two years ago and I've seen them lately for even less than that, everything you need included. Halides cost more but your SPS will thank you with awesome colors and growth.
vibe
Member
like i said it was all IMO:silly: . the examples where a little broad. personally IMO, i dont like the at clam look under MHs. i think it taes some of the color away actually(atleast under a 10,000k only). i have seen brookly johnny's tank. its amazing. acros and maximas under 64 watts of PC. makes you think about that for a second doesnt it:happy: . anyways, sry if i offended your opinion at all. we all use wha works best for us. good luck with what ever other lighting stratagies you may have:joy:
brooklyn johnny
Active Member
Very interesting thread. As is the answer with many questions in this hobby... it depends.
In general larger tanks are easier for novice reefers basically for the simple reason that bad things happen slower. A simple nano could be setup and maintained by an experienced reefer with little time and effort, however if the nano becomes more complex with more delicate organisms nanos can quickly become more difficult than larger tanks.
There is a difference between more difficult and more time consuming. The larger the tank the longer a water change takes, but that has nothing to do with difficulty.
I say these things because I've went through so much with my 10 gallon over the past year and a half that has challenged and taught me more than any of my larger tanks ever have. My tank has been referenced in this thread and others, so I'll bump up the major thread for reference. In September I got a larger system going, and have recently moved some of the stony corals out of my nano because I was running into unavoidable issues with this amount of calcifying organisms in such a small amount of water.
The issues were these. The nano was originally started using only small additions of B-ionic and water changes for replenishment. I then gained confidence and began carefully dripping kalk nightly, starting with a dilute solution and working up to full strength. I then went to the point where I needed B-Ionic on top of the kalk. This progressively got to the point where I was dosing 25 mLs a day of B-ionic in my 10 gallon on top of the kalkwasser. The problem is that the alkalinity buffers (part 1 of B-ionic) cause a spike in pH, which isn't much of a concern in larger tanks, but in my nano it was. General knowledge is that a sudden change of up to .2 in pH is acceptable (ex. 8.2 to 8.4). With the addition of between 3 and 5 mLs of part 1 I would get a spike of about .2. So, in summary, I was doing about 6 additions of B-ionic daily on my system, 2 in the morning a half hour apart, 2 after work, and 2 at night. Then there was the problem of the B-ionic increasing my specific gravity over the course of just a day or two, resulting in my water changes being made with dilute IO. This was tough enough for me to handle, but when I travel for work the instructions left behind to my wife and retired father were getting ridiculous.
That was a bit of a ramble, but the point is that smaller tanks could be much more difficult to care for, but if done simply they could be less time consuming. My calcium and alkalinity levels were always in need of adjustment due to the small water volume and high uptake.
It is however a great challenge to keep STABILITY, which is what many of these organisms thrive on, especially those like sps and clams. At the same time if kept healthy they are very resilient in the event of short term disasters, of which I've had many. Forgotten kalk drips where the pH went up to 8.9, power outages where the pH dropped to 7.5 with a temp in the low 70s, and many others... we've come a long way in this hobby...
lastly I'll say that with nanos the rewards are greater :happy: , but the setbacks are more
In general larger tanks are easier for novice reefers basically for the simple reason that bad things happen slower. A simple nano could be setup and maintained by an experienced reefer with little time and effort, however if the nano becomes more complex with more delicate organisms nanos can quickly become more difficult than larger tanks.
There is a difference between more difficult and more time consuming. The larger the tank the longer a water change takes, but that has nothing to do with difficulty.
I say these things because I've went through so much with my 10 gallon over the past year and a half that has challenged and taught me more than any of my larger tanks ever have. My tank has been referenced in this thread and others, so I'll bump up the major thread for reference. In September I got a larger system going, and have recently moved some of the stony corals out of my nano because I was running into unavoidable issues with this amount of calcifying organisms in such a small amount of water.
The issues were these. The nano was originally started using only small additions of B-ionic and water changes for replenishment. I then gained confidence and began carefully dripping kalk nightly, starting with a dilute solution and working up to full strength. I then went to the point where I needed B-Ionic on top of the kalk. This progressively got to the point where I was dosing 25 mLs a day of B-ionic in my 10 gallon on top of the kalkwasser. The problem is that the alkalinity buffers (part 1 of B-ionic) cause a spike in pH, which isn't much of a concern in larger tanks, but in my nano it was. General knowledge is that a sudden change of up to .2 in pH is acceptable (ex. 8.2 to 8.4). With the addition of between 3 and 5 mLs of part 1 I would get a spike of about .2. So, in summary, I was doing about 6 additions of B-ionic daily on my system, 2 in the morning a half hour apart, 2 after work, and 2 at night. Then there was the problem of the B-ionic increasing my specific gravity over the course of just a day or two, resulting in my water changes being made with dilute IO. This was tough enough for me to handle, but when I travel for work the instructions left behind to my wife and retired father were getting ridiculous.
That was a bit of a ramble, but the point is that smaller tanks could be much more difficult to care for, but if done simply they could be less time consuming. My calcium and alkalinity levels were always in need of adjustment due to the small water volume and high uptake.
It is however a great challenge to keep STABILITY, which is what many of these organisms thrive on, especially those like sps and clams. At the same time if kept healthy they are very resilient in the event of short term disasters, of which I've had many. Forgotten kalk drips where the pH went up to 8.9, power outages where the pH dropped to 7.5 with a temp in the low 70s, and many others... we've come a long way in this hobby...
lastly I'll say that with nanos the rewards are greater :happy: , but the setbacks are more