So THIS guy just got his job back. I'm starting to see the disgust for unions.

[theclemsonkid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc
That is the dash cam video of a cop here in my town of Canton, Ohio (warning: extremely explicit language); pulling over, and then FLIPPING OUT on a CCW holder. It's long, so for those who don't want to watch the whole scary thing, here's a few highlights:
"I am so close to caving in your god d**n head"
"You're just a stupid human being, f**king talking to me with a God d**ned gun"

"I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40 and just put ten bullets in your ass and let you drop".

Mind you, the guy arrested was trying to show him his CCW card from the start, but the officer kept telling him to shut his mouth, and wouldn't let him get a word in.

Now it turns out, his being fired (which was rightfully deserved) was overturned because they say he suffered from PTSD. If he has PTSD, why do you want to give him a gun and authority? Nuts.

 

[darthtang aw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc
That is the dash cam video of a cop here in my town of Canton, Ohio (warning: extremely explicit language); pulling over, and then FLIPPING OUT on a CCW holder.  It's long, so for those who don't want to watch the whole scary thing, here's a few highlights:
"I am so close to caving in your god d**n head"
"You're just a stupid human being, f**king talking to me with a God d**ned gun"
"I tell you what I should have done.  As soon as I saw your gun I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40 and just put ten bullets in your ass and let you drop".
Mind you, the guy arrested was trying to show him his CCW card from the start, but the officer kept telling him to shut his mouth, and wouldn't let him get a word in. 
Now it turns out, his being fired (which was rightfully deserved) was overturned because they say he suffered from PTSD.  If he has PTSD, why do you want to give him a gun and authority?  Nuts.
Believe it or not, i find both to be in the wrong here.

 

[reefraff]

Yep. Of course if I was that guy I'd be looking to find that cop off duty and invite him to get froggy.

 

[2quills]

Unfortunately PTSD is probably a lot more common than we think when it comes to cops. It kinda goes hand in hand with the job and most are ex military. Pretty scary when you have one screaming at you talking about caving your head in when you're not really being combative. Declaring that he had a weapon should have been the first words out of the guy's mouth though.

 

[reefraff]

To be fair the Cops never approached the driver before pulling out the passenger and entering the car. I am not a cop and didn't stay at a Holiday inn last night but I'd bet that cop searching the back seat before pulling the driver out was a major violation of department policy. I'd say the "Misunderstanding" was 90/10 the Cop's fault. I'm pretty cool, calm and collected but if the cop in the back seat of my car told me I wasn't allowed to speak while searching the back seat of my car I would have probably shut up too.

PTSD is the technical term for being an ass? LOL! Does his partner suffer from the same ailment? He didn't try to talk the guy off the ledge. Guess what has ailment has greatly increased among those filing for disability payments the last 4 years? PTSD. Why on earth would they insist on keeping the guy on the job if he has a condition recognized by the US government as a disability? This is insane.

 

[2quills]

True, true. It was very un professional on the cops part.
My point is more or less a commonality that goes along with the job and the stresses that go along with it can be enough to cause a lot of folks to have break down and freak out like that.
If they fired everyone that displayed some of those symptoms then my guess is there would be real shortage of cops pretty quick.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/396398/so-this-guy-just-got-his-job-back-im-starting-to-see-the-disgust-for-unions#post_3531960
True, true. It was very un professional on the cops part.
My point is more or less a commonality that goes along with the job and the stresses that go along with it can be enough to cause a lot of folks to have break down and freak out like that.
If they fired everyone that displayed some of those symptoms then my guess is there would be real shortage of cops pretty quick.
Probably a lot fewer police brutality cases too. Don't get me wrong, I am very pro cop but there's no excuse for this sort of BS.

 

[beth]

It is lawsuit time in my view. Big bucks ahead for the victims.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/396398/so-this-guy-just-got-his-job-back-im-starting-to-see-the-disgust-for-unions#post_3531970
I am very pro cop but there's no excuse for this sort of BS.

What to do you expect when you take a guy who's trained to kill in war and put him on the street with a badge? I had thought the guy sounded like a Marine to me and it appears that he was. No one actually got hurt here other than the driver got the crap scared out of him. A little reality check never hurt anyone.

In his defense he did tell everyone to stay put and scoped out the driver first. It looked to me like the passenger was about ready to step out of the car and that turned his attention (perceived a threat after a direct order). And sometimes people run! He may have saw that as his biggest concern. But then the other two showed up and his partner officer doofy started searching the car without securing the driver who just happened to have an extra pistol in his pants. Dumb du dum dum dummm...all the way around from that point on.

The threats were a bit extreme but you gotta remember that this guy was trained by the United States Military to be an animal when he needs to be and not give two hoots about someone's feelings in the process. Once you unleash the beast it can be hard to suppress. But these are the folks who are given the highest consideration for law enforcement positions of that nature these days. The guy deserves to be disciplined in some way but shouldn't cost his whole career.

 

[beth]

I'm not sure being a former marine is supposed to be taken into consideration in his current role as a law enforcement officer. To me, it doesn't matter what your personal issues are, if you are inappropriate on the job, especially to this level, then there should be consequences. Civilians have rights too. In this situation, the police was in a position of immense power and authority. Police officers should at all time exercise that power with due diligence and professionalism. And when they don't or can't, then they should be removed from that position. Now, if this force wants to give him a desk job, ok.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/396398/so-this-guy-just-got-his-job-back-im-starting-to-see-the-disgust-for-unions#post_3531993
I'm not sure being a former marine is supposed to be taken into consideration in his current role as a law enforcement officer. To me, it doesn't matter what your personal issues are, if you are inappropriate on the job, especially to this level, then there should be consequences. Civilians have rights too. In this situation, the police was in a position of immense power and authority. Police officers should at all time exercise that power with due diligence and professionalism. And when they don't or can't, then they should be removed from that position. Now, if this force wants to give him a desk job, ok.

What ever happened to everyone deserving a second chance? Thought I heard you say that once. I'm not saying what happened was ok but the driver didn't actually get beat down by the cops in this case. I know we'd like to think of our service or law enforcement personel as being perfect machines but in reality things just don't always work that way. They are people too that sometimes make mistakes. The unfortunate reality, especially in urban environments is that you need tough cops who can do the job of going after some pretty bad people sometimes.

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[darthtang aw]

Quills, you are excusing behavior based off one's past experience and traumas. Which is what is exactly wrong with society. We seek out excuses.
Bottomline, That officer may have been having a bad day, but that is no excuse to be yelling at a citizen that is acting calmly and cooperating. Much less threatening him with caving his head in our shooting ten bullets into his face. My dad and father in law both suffer from PTSD from their tours in Vietnam, Neither one of them would have acted in that manner. PTSD I feel, sometimes, is just an excuse for a$$holes to be a$$holes.
With that being said, it is obvious to me the citizen was about to engage in some illegal activity...have a known pimp and prostitute near and in your vehicle, is asking for it. He could have tried harder to inform the officer he had a conceal carry. The minute the lights went on, he could have removed the magazine and the slide and handed both out the window right away...I do this when I get pulled over. It puts the officer at ease and shows I am not a threat even though I carry a firearm. If I have my revolver on me, I release the chamber and hold it out the window by the barrel with two fingers............Carrying a gun is a HUGE responsibilty, you are responsible for your saftey, those around you, and the officer pulling you over.........
I even have my personal issues with doing stupid crap like this...........
[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

 

[beth]

Of course he deserves a 2nd chance if he is having PTSD episodes on the job, but a 2nd chance doesn't entail giving him a gun and letting him loose on civilians again. Really, you are ok with that happening? What if it was your wife in the car going through that? Also, doesn't PTSD manifest by the person reliving the traumatic exp they had? Was this cop reliving anything, or was he just being brutal to people whom he had absolute power over?

When was the PTSD discovered? I'm sure that the law enforcement department wasn't aware of the PTSD problem, for if they were, then they are very much responsible for any legal fallout that follows. Is it being supportive to unleash a person suffering from PTSD where he could end up hurting someone? Don't think so. Being helpful would be allowing him to receive the therapy he needs to resolve his issues and, if possible, giving him a position that doesn't entail handling guns and weapons and power over others. Would it not be a tragedy if he gets entangled in a law suit, or, worse, police brutality that could end in harming someone?

 

[2quills]

You guy's seemed to look of the fact that I said the behavior wasn't excusable, extreme and not ok. I think he needs some counseling, anger management and some reprimanding. Just don't think judging this one situation entails firing which could cost him a career in law enforcement. Beth, my wife wouldn't be out on the street at that time of night talking with dudes in a car.

 

[beth]

You're wife never drives at night with friends or family members? Not the point. The point is that police officers have to walk the straight and narrow, otherwise they are not good choices for that line of work. They are public servants that must at all times behave appropriately--no leniency with that line of work especially lenency when officer is threatening to kill

The individuals in the car do not strike me as pillars of society, but that is not a requirement for being within a vehicle or for cc. If they were in the commission of a crime then they should be arrested, not life threatened.

Also, this wasn't the only incident involving this officer, and it does not seem that the PSTD was related to military service.

http://www.cantonrep.com/opinion/editorials/x338367891/City-had-to-fire-out-of-control-officer

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/396398/so-this-guy-just-got-his-job-back-im-starting-to-see-the-disgust-for-unions#post_3532019
You're wife never drives at night with friends or family members? Not the point. The point is that police officers have to walk the straight and narrow, otherwise they are not good choices for that line of work. They are public servants that must at all times behave appropriately--no leniency with that line of work especially lenency when officer is threatening to kill

The individuals in the car do not strike me as pillars of society, but that is not a requirement for being within a vehicle or for cc. If they were in the commission of a crime then they should be arrested, not life threatened.

Also, this wasn't the only incident involving this officer, and it does not seem that the PSTD was related to military service.

http://www.cantonrep.com/opinion/editorials/x338367891/City-had-to-fire-out-of-control-officer


It says he was shot and hurt when previous assailant went for his gun. That's your underlying psychological motive for him freaking out. Plus everything else the guys has been through in the past. Again I feel that this is a problem because it's alot more common than just this situation.

I don't want to confuse my wife in a hypothetical situation compared to the actual situation that happened. These people weren't randomly pulled over. And this probably wasn't the nicest of neighborhoods to be in.

My hypothetical take on the video is that these cops probably circled around after seeing the girl (who had been arrested for prostitution before). They possibly waited for a car to pull up then decided to roll up behind them with the lights off before that last minute in order to spot something going down in the act. The girl when she realized it was a cop you can see started walking away from the vehicle. If you noticed the car was already pulled over to the side of the road with the drivers foot still on the break peddle when they rolled up on them. Then when the cop approached the driver side of the car the passenger then attempted to get out of the vehicle (a big no no). None of them sounded to have a clear answer for being there but I couldn't hear the whole conversation.

I don't agree with what went down then, I don't like it. The sad reality is that this type of stuff is probably considered tame depending on who you are and where you live. But I've seen and heard a lot worse than this back in Detroit. People in departments often don't care about criminals and they will cover their own when necessary. You see how they gave the dog and pony show by firing the guy for the public outcry and then took him right back? This is just a reflection of the way that things are all over. The only reason it made news is because the driver was a CCW holder.

I'm not the one out there voting for folks who wish to control the populous and create a huge welfare state by criminalizing everyone.. But the fact is that more people die on our nations streets from violence every year than probably have in the last two wars we've been in. They put these guys out there with a gun and a badge because Mr. Nice Cop will probably get his head blown off by assuming everyone is perfectly innocent and not doing anything wrong. They rely on intuition and instincts to keep themselves alive.

What happens if they fired the guy and he ended up in such a deep depression that he flips out one day and goes postal in a mall? Our service people sometimes need our support too to get the help they need. I guarantee you one thing though. That driver will think twice before the next time he goes riding around town with his gun at night.

Something for those of you who carry in public to consider.

 

[beth]

What are you calling service people, cops or military vets or all of the above? This guy was not PTSD due to military.

I stand for people who can just do their job. If they can't do it right, then they shouldn't be in that particular line of work. Especially, someone who is holding a gun, yet has mental problems that rise to the level of threatening bodily harm.

 

[2quills]

All of the above, like what I talked about in the beginning. The stresses that come along with jobs that require you to put your life in dangerous situations on a regular basis. You can point to one specific incident but I believe it goes a bit deeper than that. But everyone is different. A weaker man may have broken down a lot sooner than this man did. At some point, cops, active military personel etc, at some point effects everyone. The difference I feel is only to what degree. Nobody is perfect at their job I can assure you that.

 

[ironeagle2006]

I watched the Video and that guy now that he got his job back needs to be Shackled to a Desk and Push Paper for the REST of his Career. Why can you imagine him having to come to a REAL emergency say Officer Down from a Shooting he might go freaking Rouge and kill everyone there he THINKS IS A THREAT. Look no Further than that case that was filed in La Salle County IL where a Drunk who all she did was Moved her leg was STRIPPED BY 4 Deputies by force and left there for hours Naked in a cell.

 

[2quills]

This thread is bogus. The guy doesn't even have his job back two years after the incident. He hasn't got clearance from the doctor and very likely never will. He just doesn't want the termination on his record so that he can move on to something else from the way I understand it.