Some lighting questions

[2quills]

120-125G tank. Measurements - 60"L x 18"W x 25"H
I'm trying to get ideas of what type of set up I want to go with for my aquarium build. I wish to do reef and be able to keep a variety of different livestock including anemones. I'm going to be building stand and canopy. I was kind of hoping to do all T5 lighting in the canopy but I've also been considering doing a combination of T5 and MH.
I've been looking at retro kits for each. And I'm thinking of either doing a 48" 6 bulb T5 setup with good quality european made reflectors, overdriving the 65w bulbs with Icecap 660 ballasts to achieve about 85w per bulb giving me approximately 510W totall.
Another Idea is to do 2 175W metal halides either 10,000k or 14,000k bulbs with spiderlight reflectors and Icecap ballasts as well as 4 T5 48" 65W bulbs "not" overdriven with same reflectors. Giving me approximately 566W totall.
I want to be able to keep pretty much any type of coral that I choose but I'd like to also keep heat down in the tank. I can always install some fans in the canopy if need be to help cut down on the heat but do I really need MH to keep a variety of corals or can I do it with all T5's?
Also...I know there can be a difference in color for MH bulbs depending on types of ballasts used but can anyone tell me whether a 14,000k bulb penetrates deeper than a 10,000k bulb? I guess the more blue it produces the deeper it penetrates is this true? I wan't some blue color in the tank but I figure I can achieve this with actinics...I don't want to be overwhelmed with blue. I would prefere the MH to be more white if I do use them...maybe just a little bit blue.

 

[gio28]

I think to penetrate that depth you would be better off using 250 watt MHs. But you could definitely use all T5s IMO.
I think either way you should be perfectly fine with what you have listed (but use 250 watt MHs)
As for the Kelvin...I would think that the blue would go deeper...but I'm not sure on that
Many tanks that size I've seen use all T5s and have SPS so if you prefer that route it will be fine

 

[gio28]

Forgot to mention...t5s are generally used to penetrate depths of up to 24"...past that MHs are really the better choice. But since you only have 1" more than that I think you will be fine with the t5s. Just place corals accordingly.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by gio28 http:///forum/post/3285334
Forgot to mention...t5s are generally used to penetrate depths of up to 24"...past that MHs are really the better choice. But since you only have 1" more than that I think you will be fine with the t5s. Just place corals accordingly.
Yeah that's kind of why I was thinking of the T5 and MH combo. Only reason I was hoping to get away with the 175's is to cut down some heat and figured if I had some good reflectors on there that I may not need to go with 250W. Still would much rather go with all T5's and that's why I was also thinking that if I could get the kits that come with the bigger ballasts that I would be ok. But if I have to be selective with placement of livestock then that's ok too.
Thanks
<a href=http://yoursmiles.org/t-rtfm.php?page=><img src=http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/rtfm/t1928.gif></a>

 

[nikesb]

you are correct about blue's going deeper. for 18" and more, ATI fixtures are needed to penetrate past it. you would also need a 6 bulb fixture to acheive max par to keep anything you want

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by nikeSB
http:///forum/post/3285338
you are correct about blue's going deeper. for 18" and more, ATI fixtures are needed to penetrate past it. you would also need a 6 bulb fixture to acheive max par to keep anything you want
That's good info, thanks.
So are you saying that I should go with the actual ATI fixtures as apposed to the retro kits? I know that I deffinately want to go with ATI bulbs.

 

[gio28]

I agree with Nike. ATI fixtures are top notch and would be the best to penetrate that far down with maximum PAR. If you really want to retro though I can tell you how to get ATI reflectors here in the US (since they aren't sold alone) since they really do put out awesome PAR. I have heard though that the reflectors are really meant for the fixtures only due to the distance the bulb is placed from them. Defintely check out the ATI fixtures...really really worth it.

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by nikeSB
http:///forum/post/3285338
you are correct about blue's going deeper. for 18" and more, ATI fixtures are needed to penetrate past it. you would also need a 6 bulb fixture to acheive max par to keep anything you want
Agree....

 

[2quills]

Thanks guys
An ATI 6 bulb fixture it will be. I don't suppose anybody knows the difference between the higher end Power Module fixture compared to the more economical Sun Power one is do they? From what I can tell looking on reefgeek the only difference seems to be 1 extra fan built into the unit...a $200 difference seems like a lot to me if that's the only extra benefit.

 

[acrylic51]

Ditch the spider reflectors....they are poor as far as reflecting light....There are better reflector options out there.

 

[2quills]

Yeah I was only considering those Spiderlight reflectors if I were to do the MH's but I'm trying to steer away from that. I do like the ATI T5 systems but I'd still like to know if there's a way to get the same benefits doing a retro fit. I mean what is it that makes the ATI so special...the ballast, the parabolic reflectors...both? What type of ballast do they use? Who else makes those reflectors?
The only reason why I really like the retro idea is because I can have more control over the light, for instance...The ATI systems only have 2 switches, one controls 2 bulbs and the other controls 4. I'd kind of like the ability to be able to control 3 pairs with 3 switches. Pluss I was wanting to run some LED strip lights right down the middle of them...3 T5 bulbs on each side of the LED strips. I'll continue to do some more digging around and see if I can find some more info about the set up of the ATI's.

 

[gio28]

there is a difference between the two versions of the ATI fixtures. Its slight...but one is more powerful than the other I heard. email Greg from reefgeek and he can tell you alot more in detail about each one and which would be better for you. If you decide to go with ATI that is...

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by gio28
http:///forum/post/3285597
there is a difference between the two versions of the ATI fixtures. Its slight...but one is more powerful than the other I heard. email Greg from reefgeek and he can tell you alot more in detail about each one and which would be better for you. If you decide to go with ATI that is...
Thanks, Gio.
I do like the ATI fixtures, alot. I've heard nothing but great things about them and if it comes down to it then I more than likely will go ahead and get one of the power module fixtures. I'd just really like to have more control over them as well as to be able to do the LED idea how I have it planned out for my build. I shot them an email asking them if they could give me a detailed comparison of the two fixtures and or if I could achieve the same thing with some type of retro fit. I'll let ya guys know what they say once they respond.

 

[gio28]

I have the LET Miro-4 retro from reefgeek...its GREAT! Mine is the 4X24" one. If you want to do a retro look into that for sure. That way you can easily incorporate LEDS between the T5s and each ballast powers 2 lamps so you could have three different switches (power cords). The reflectors sold with that kit are identical (in terms of reflectivity) to ATI reflectors..but they lose more efficiency once they penetrate deeper unlike ATI, which maintains more. The icecap and TEK retros sold on reefgeek are also great I've heard...and I'm sure Greg would be happy to mix and match parts for a custom retro if you call/email him up so you could get exactly what you want. I recommend going with reefgeek not matter what though because they will really help you out to get what you want...and you get to pick out any T5 bulbs out of their selection they have.
If you want...I can give you a thread on another forum that shows a bunch of pictures of different T5 lighting combos if you PM me...I read through it and It really helped me pick out the bulbs I wanted.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by gio28
http:///forum/post/3285675
I have the LET Miro-4 retro from reefgeek...its GREAT! Mine is the 4X24" one. If you want to do a retro look into that for sure. That way you can easily incorporate LEDS between the T5s and each ballast powers 2 lamps so you could have three different switches (power cords). The reflectors sold with that kit are identical (in terms of reflectivity) to ATI reflectors..but they lose more efficiency once they penetrate deeper unlike ATI, which maintains more. The icecap and TEK retros sold on reefgeek are also great I've heard...and I'm sure Greg would be happy to mix and match parts for a custom retro if you call/email him up so you could get exactly what you want. I recommend going with reefgeek not matter what though because they will really help you out to get what you want...and you get to pick out any T5 bulbs out of their selection they have.
If you want...I can give you a thread on another forum that shows a bunch of pictures of different T5 lighting combos if you PM me...I read through it and It really helped me pick out the bulbs I wanted.
That would be great, Gio...I'll send you a pm.

 

[2quills]

So I sent off an email to Greg, over at reefgeek inquiring about the differences between the Higher and Lower end ATI fixtures as well as asked him if I could get the same benefits out of a retro fit and here's what he said...
"Hi Corey,
A 6-bulb ATI fixture (either the SunPower or the Powermodule) will put more light on your tank than a 6-bulb SLR retrofit kit (or any retrofit kit for that matter) due mostly in part to the active-cooling system and a little bit because of better reflectors. It’s unfortunately hard to replicate the benefits of the active-cooling system with a retrofit kit, but you can improve the performance of a retrofit kit by blowing air across the ends of the bulbs with a small cooling fan. Doing this will improve PAR levels on the tank and get you closer to where you would be with one of the ATI fixtures.
As you mentioned in your email one of the advantages of a retrofit kit is the ability to turn the lights off-on in pairs. Other advantages of a retrofit kit include the ability to add more bulbs to the set-up without scrapping the original set of 6-bulbs and retrofits are also typically better suited for installation inside a canopy due to the moisture-proof end-caps. Our favorite retrofit kits are the LET Lighting Miro-4 kits as they have a touch better output than the IceCap SLR’s.
As for comparing the ATI fixtures, the SunPower is obviously the more “economical” of the 2 fixtures. Both the SunPower and the Powermodule feature parabolic Miro-Silver reflectors, identical programmed-start electronic ballasts and an active cooling system. The biggest difference is the housing with the SunPower coming in a more economical bent aluminum housing versus a curved, heavy-duty housing for the Powermodule. The SunPower also has one less fan. Performance wise the SunPower is almost (within 5%), but not quite as good as the Powermodule.
Hope that helps. If you have any additional questions, just let me know. We are here to help!
Warmest Regards,
Greg Morgan"

 

[gio28]

PM sent...
also, which way do you think your gonna go? Personally...if you want to shell out the money for an ATI fixture that would be worth it. The lack of moonlights would be a problem...but there are alot of clamp on ones or some that you can modify to the canopy for sure.
As for the one switch controlling two lamps and the other controlling the other four, like you mentioned, this is what I (personally) would do: have the first switch control 2 ati blue + for dawn/dusk effects (if desired)...then have the other four come on an hour later with another blue + and then three other bulbs of your choice. I noticed (proven by the t5 combo link i sent you) that many people like at least half their bulbs to be ati blue +...and I understand why. I have 3 ATI blue + and a fiji on my tank and that single fiji bulb makes my tank go from deep blue to a equally blue/white mixture...so the blue plus bulbs obviously can be easily overpowered by 'whiter' light. Hope that makes sense.
What color temperature were you looking to have?

 

[2quills]

Thanks, that is a great thread. I just skimmed through it so I'll have to spend a little more time reading tonight.
Not 100% sure on the color temp yet...maybe 12,000 or 14,000k. I'd like to get the colors to really pop, and enhance the flourescense in certain corals. This will be my first reef so I still have much to research. When all the lights are on I'd like the tank to have a nice blue look, just don't want to be blown away by blue if possible.
At this point, as much as I wanted to do the retro kits, I'm leaning a little more towards the powermodule fixture. Infact I'm thinking of scraping the 48" 6 bulb and incorporating the 60" 6 bulb fixture instead. That should definately give me enough light to go with whatever I wanted. But what I don't know yet is if it would be over kill if I wanted to keep some softies? The 60" says it's good for SPS dominate tanks of upto 160G and upto 190G for mixed. The 48" says it's good for upto 110G for SPS dominated and 130G for mixed. My tank is 120G. I don't mind saving up the extra money for 60" if it's worth it.
And you're right, there are a lot of different ways that I could incorporate some moonlight...I'm sure if I get a little creative that I could come up with a descent way to make it work.

 

[gio28]

IMO opinion....the 60" would be overkill for softies. The 48" 6 bulb should be good for you as long as the SPS are placed near the top (1/3 the way up or higher). I'm not an expert on lighting though so hopefully some more experienced people chime in with their opinions.
I just based my opinion on the fact that your tank size is right in between 110 for (SPS dom) and 130 (mixed)...and since its in between im guessing that the tank should be SPS and LPS dominated with softies down lower.

 

[nikesb]

the ati pm would be able to keep sps on the upper 2/3 and some choice ones on the lower 1/3. THEY ARE PAR MONSTERS.