Specifics for a sump and fuge

[sagxman]

I have been searching for info to set up a sump and or fuge. I read somewhere someone making a combined sumpfugium. That idea is the most appealing to me. I haven't been able to find the specific info that I need.
Here is want I want to accomplish: I have a 20L on a metal stand. I would like to put a 10gal underneath for a fuge or a sumpfugium if that is actually possible.
I need to know the best way for the water to get down to the 10gal and then back up. I would also like to be able to move my heater and one of my HOB filters down to the 10gal as well.
What equipment will I need and how can I set it up?

 

[gregvabch]

you need an overflow box to get the water down and then a pump/powerhead to push the water back up to the display. or you could just use 2 pumps, rated at the same gph, to take the water down and bring it back up. make sure you use the same amount of tubing for the pumps, otherwise the difference in length will decrease the performance of the one with the longer length of hose. a 10 gal tank is awfully small for a fuge/sump setup but you could do it. do you really need a sump though? i would just make it a fuge.

 

[sagxman]

I guess I probably don't need the sump in a 20gal tank.
So, if I put a pump in the tank and another pump in the fuge rated at the same gph and use the same length of tubing everything will work fine? Is there anything else I need to know? That almost sounds too simple.
Another question, will there be enough flow for me to put my heater and one of my two HOB filters on the 10 gal fuge?
Last question (for now at least), how much LS should I put in the 10gal fuge?
Oh wait, thought of another question. Is it possible for me to get some of the microalgea and calurpula (sp) off of my current LR and put it in the fuge or do you think I should just put the rocks that have algea on them into the fuge and buy new LR for my display?
Thanks so much for the help. Even though I've had the aquarium running for quite some time and have learned most of the basics there are always new realms that I haven't tried yet. I love this hobby. Never gets boring.

 

[sagxman]

Dang it, I keep thinking of new questions. Besides the pump from the display to fuge and pump from fuge to display do I need a powerhead or anything else in the fuge?

 

[gregvabch]

i misguided you on the pumps. the one in the fuge, even if they are rated at the same gph, is going to pump less, because it will have more head weight above it. you may want to consider putting the refugium somewhere above your display so that you can use gravity to get the water back into the display. i'm building my fuge right now, but it will be above my sump, which is separate. i'll pump the water from the sump into the fuge and then as the water fills it will drain back down into the sump via a tube connected to a hole drilled into the side. i wouldn't recommend putting your filter on the refugium because it may suck out a lot of stuff that you will want to keep in there, such as amphipods and copepods. you will want 4 or 5 inches of live sand. you will definetly need some sort of caulerpa algae in your fuge in order for it to be one. also, some people use powerheads in their refugiums, depends on how big it is and how they've got it set up. use the search engine on this site and type in refugium. you'll find all types of info and diagrams. good luck!

 

[sagxman]

I see what you mean about the pumps. I need to put the fuge under the display if possible. I don't really have any room to place it higher. So, should I use a more powerful pump to send the water back up to the display, and how do I know how powerful of a pump to buy?
About the filter that I was thinking about putting in the fuge, I didn't plan on running it with any filter media, just the bio-wheel. Is this ok?

 

[stumpdog]

SaGxMAN- I am not sure about the filtration method. As faw as figuring out how much power you need depends on the amount of overflow and the distance of the return pump to the tank. Many pumps will tell you how high they can pump water, and what the gph is at that level. For instance Mag700 at zero feet does 700gph, 475gph at 4 feet and 25gph at 12 feet. These are stats I pulled off of a website. You just need to make sure that return matches overflow. Does this make sense? HTH.
Jeremy

 

[broomer5]

SaGxMAN
I'll toss in my thoughts here.
You'll need an external overflow and a return pump, some pvc fittings and vinyl tubing and a spraybar ( DIY or store bought ).
Here's the thing about small tanks and small refugiums/sumps.
Most folks run the sump/fuge about halfway full or a little higher.
You have to allow for some room at the top of the sump, so when the pump is turned off ( or you lose electric power ) the tankwater that will drain down will not overflow the sump.
There is most always a little draindown because the returnline/spraybar will siphon some of the tankwater until the level in the tank drops down and vents the spraybar with air.
This inrush of air breaks the siphon.
You can drill a hole in the return spraybar "just" under the normal operating water level in the tank - and take care of this problem easy.
The other thing - since the sump/fuge would need this allowable room - and only be running half full or so - hang on the back filters sometimes don't work so well. It may have to work hard to pull the water up, and then it'll splash water as it drops it back down into the sump. I've never seen a need to run a HOB filter down in the sump. A protein skimmer - yes. A filter - no.
But it can be done.
Do not run one pump up to the tank - and another down to the sump. This spells disaster. The two pumps will not pump at equal rates. The floor will get wet - eventually.
Plus if one pump fails to start up at powerloss - you can see the problem that would arise.
Lastly - using an overflow on a tank requires a certain amout of water flow. If the flow is too low from the return pump/sump ...... then it's possible to get air bubbles entrapped up in the U tube of the overflow. These bubbles accumulate over time, forming one large air bubble gap, and if this continues, it can cause the U tube to lose it's siphon. Again .... not a good thing, and something dry is going to get wet .. the floor.
Is there any way possible you could go with a larger sump/refugium under the main tank ?
This would be a big plus ........ and eliminate many possible problems.