Started a 56G FOWLR tank and could use some help with picking fish

kenman345

Member
Let me give you an overview of the tank with the equipment, then I'll go into my story of setting it all up until it's current state. After that, I would appreciate anyones advice on what I can try with my new tank and what types of fish might be compatible with the ones I know I want so I can do more research on them and decide how to stock my tank.

Overview:
  • 56G Column Marineland Tank with Stand
  • Fluval 306 Canister Filtration Unit
  • ReefKeeper Elite Titanium Plus Edition
  • 2 sponge (looks like a W) filter that I plan to use if I find a place to set up a quarantine tank some day
  • Current USA Orbit Marine LED Lighting
  • 58 lbs of Indo Dry Rock
  • 2 200W Heaters set to 78 Degrees Fahrenheit (RKE keeps the tank at 77.5)
  • 1.5lbs Live Rock rubble from LFS (help bring the bacteria into the tank and to help coralline algae growth)
  • CPR Small In-Tank Refugium with Chaetomorpha and Tangerine Copapods
    2 Hydor Koralia Circulation Pumps (1 600GPH and the other is a 850 GPH pump)
    D-Link DSC-931L IP Webcam for monitoring while at work or away.
    Carib-Sea 30lbs Live Sand

    Yet to Install:

    • Tunze Osmolator 3155 ATO System
      Reef Octopus BH1000 HOB Protein Skimmer (on it's way currently)
      Super Feeder AFS-1 Aquarium Feeder (On it's way currently)
      Might add a Koralia 240 GPH circulation pump in the back or front to help with any noticeable deadspots in the future

    Future Purchases:
    Uninterrupted Power Supply as a battery backup for my system
    More livestock and Cleaning Crew


Plan for the Tank
:
I previously had only had a 5G freshwater tank and decided on a 56G saltwater tank as it fit in my room and seemed to be the right size according to every LFS around me and everything I read in a few books and online that would give me the best chance of success being a first timer. I had watched the BRS TV video series on starting a saltwater tank as well as some other youtube videos and decided on getting the Reefkeeper Elite straight off the bat since the basis of this tank is setting up an environment for the livestock within to be comfortable and easily left for a week and a half when I go on vacation. The freshwater tank made me realize that getting the RKE now would save me time and money. My next planned vacation is for 7 days in December, so I felt confident that I had enough time to get things working by then. This is also the reason for an automatic feeder, which will be the default method of feeding when I am unable to make it home for feeding time during the year and the primary method of feedings during vacations.

Setting up the tank
:
I started by putting a backing on my tank and making sure it was level. At that point, I cleaned the inside and filled it up with Tap water that I put Water Conditioner in to do my leak test. The next day I had the tank empty so I installed 1 heater and calibrated it while I also installed my circulation pumps and an analog thermometer to calibrate my heaters manually. I started mixing the saltwater in the tank and only touched it over the next two days to calibrate the two heaters to the right temperature I wanted. I then took the water out and put it into some bins I picked up so I could add my sand and Dry Rock into the tank. I had aquascaped my Dry Rock outside the tank to be two pillars, each of different height. I used some fish safe epoxy to get it to stay together and to make sure it did not fall when doing future maintenance to the tank. I made sure one of the two pillars has about 3 or 4 areas between rocks that can be used for caves and for fish to swim through. They are varying sizes and should offer some nice coverage for various fish in the tank. The other pillar has a few spots but they are not as apparent from the most viewed side of the aquarium. I left some space between the two pillars to also allow fish to swim through when they would like.

After placing my Dry Rock in the tank, I put my water back and made sure it sat for a few days with the heaters and circulation pumps. I should point out, I have a hydrometer and a refractometer, which I was using to make sure that being new to the hobby did not mean that I was using the refractometer wrong and hurting fish. I unfortunately did encounter some casualties and will discuss that soon. I also took this time to make sure that my ReefKeeper Elite was labelled with my different components and set up exactly where I wanted it. The camera and having a spare netbook that I could connect to 24/7 to tweak the Reefkeeper was really handy. I may end up getting the Net Module in the future, but for now, RDP sessions to a netbook is a great cheap compromise to not having that item.

After my sand settled for a few days, I checked my water levels for salinity and verified that the cycle hadn't started yet. I started the tank cycle by adding 4 Blue-Green Chromis and some Bio-Spira to the tank to help my new inhabitants. I know that Bio-Spira is not a cure-all for a new tank, but I felt that it would at least give my fish the best chance for survival as the tank went through it's cycle. To be quick about this idea, the Bio-Spira worked for a 8 day cycle since I had been running two filtration units, the circulation pumps on timers and the real live rock pieces, but the chromis did not make it past day 4, due to the cycle, some being injured from the fish store, and not eating the various foods I tried to give them.

I waited for the levels to go to zero before adding in my new inhabitants to the tank. Since the tank has cycled, I added 1 Pajama Cardinalfish and 5 small hermit crabs. It's been 2 days now with them and they are all seemingly doing well. I have not checked the levels yet, but plan to test them every other day from today forward until I notice a trend. I then plan to stop and test the water as needed as well as 1-2 times a week until I add new fish to the tank.

This is the tank a few days ago, I have now moved the sponge filter so it does not make bubbles in the tank but still does it's job. This is also before I started using the lighting system, which I only started to use after having the tank cycled and adding in my hermit crabs.



As I have pointed out, I want this tank to be able to be sustained when I take a week long vacation. I am currently feeding brine shrimp to the PJ Cardinal but plan to see If I can ween it onto pellets for a mixed diet during the majority of the year. I was considering trying to only go for non-picky eaters and tank-bred fish wherever I can so that I do not have to worry that a picky fish wont make it past my vacation where no one will be in my house to feed the fish or maintain the tank.

Some things I could use advice on that I know I need help with:
  • Recommendations for a container for my ATO system
  • What fish should I be looking into? (Please read below for fish I know I want to get or am researching)
  • Any recommendations for the cycle of my wavemakers and my protein skimmer? (Currently running the wavemakers on a 20 minutes on-off cycle switching between the two)
  • Clean-up crew recommendations
  • Since I started with Dry Rock and didnt cure it beforehand, should I wait even longer to add my next fish?

    Fish I want or am researching currently:
    • Clownfish (thinking one orange and white and one black and white ocellaris clownfish)
      Mandarin (after the refugium is well established of course)
      Goby's? (I like the idea of the goby pairs with the shrimp, but not sure if that dynamic will work with 1 inch of sand)
      Flame Angle or Lemon Peel Angel (dwarf angelfish because my tank is not huge enough for a big one or for the yellow tang I wish I could get, I want something that will not outgrow the tank ever since I do not know when I will have the ability to get a larger tank)

    Clean Up Crew (this section is not as researched and could use help figuring out which to get):

    Snails?!? What type?
    Shrimp (preferably something that wont hurt my clownfish or other inhabitants)
    Crabs?!? Well I have a few, but should I eventually add more? Maybe some other types of crabs?

As is expected, I probably am missing some elements of the build and might not understand everything that I might be missing. I will happily read through any advice one can give me, but I will be doing my homework before following any advice, so if you're clear about what I might want to do and why, it will help my research and planning out quite a lot. I would appreciate being told if any fish are jumpers, as I want to avoid those to the best of my ability while I still have not figured out the best covering for my tank yet and cannot have dead fish if they got out. Coming home from work or from a vacation to find that would be heartbreaking and smelly.

Thank you for your time,
Ken

EDIT: Please note that I was very sad when my Chromis passed and will likely be more patient the next time I set up a tank. Sometimes us newbies make mistakes.

EDIT 2: Future saltwater and freshwater for the ATO will all by RO/DI water, I just dont have a system that can handle outputting enough for an entire tank in one go. That's why I started with tap water and conditioner. I made sure the conditioner was well mixed into the water for a day or two before mixing my saltwater. I also have an accudrip acclimation tool which I used with my current inhabitants.
 

trigger40

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenman345 http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544725

Some things I could use advice on that I know I need help with:
  • Recommendations for a container for my ATO system
  • What fish should I be looking into? (Please read below for fish I know I want to get or am researching)
  • Any recommendations for the cycle of my wavemakers and my protein skimmer? (Currently running the wavemakers on a 20 minutes on-off cycle switching between the two)
  • Clean-up crew recommendations
  • Since I started with Dry Rock and didnt cure it beforehand, should I wait even longer to add my next fish?

    Fish I want or am researching currently:
    • Clownfish (thinking one orange and white and one black and white ocellaris clownfish)
      Mandarin (after the refugium is well established of course)
      Goby's? (I like the idea of the goby pairs with the shrimp, but not sure if that dynamic will work with 1 inch of sand)
      Flame Angle or Lemon Peel Angel (dwarf angelfish because my tank is not huge enough for a big one or for the yellow tang I wish I could get, I want something that will not outgrow the tank ever since I do not know when I will have the ability to get a larger tank)

    Clean Up Crew (this section is not as researched and could use help figuring out which to get):

  • Snails?!? What type?
    Shrimp (preferably something that wont hurt my clownfish or other inhabitants)
    Crabs?!? Well I have a few, but should I eventually add more? Maybe some other types of crabs?

As is expected, I probably am missing some elements of the build and might not understand everything that I might be missing. I will happily read through any advice one can give me, but I will be doing my homework before following any advice, so if you're clear about what I might want to do and why, it will help my research and planning out quite a lot. I would appreciate being told if any fish are jumpers, as I want to avoid those to the best of my ability while I still have not figured out the best covering for my tank yet and cannot have dead fish if they got out. Coming home from work or from a vacation to find that would be heartbreaking and smelly.

Thank you for your time,
Ken

EDIT: Please note that I was very sad when my Chromis passed and will likely be more patient the next time I set up a tank. Sometimes us newbies make mistakes.

EDIT 2: Future saltwater and freshwater for the ATO will all by RO/DI water, I just dont have a system that can handle outputting enough for an entire tank in one go. That's why I started with tap water and conditioner. I made sure the conditioner was well mixed into the water for a day or two before mixing my saltwater. I also have an accudrip acclimation tool which I used with my current inhabitants.
alright, you have just about all you need for your tank as far as equepment goes and then some, but i would think it would be safe to wate another week or two befor adding new fish and what wher readings when you started your cycle because 8 days doesnt sound right. but 4 clowns is risky if ther is more than a pair they might fight and kill eachother. i would pick your two favoret clown and then have a pair of them. if you wand a mandy you need to go buy more live rock to seed your bass rock for pods. the gobies are a good idea and i dont know much about shrimp so i cant help you ther. but i dont remember seeing what you have for lighting if you dont have any you will NEED it. pick your favoret angel because they can not go together. (persanoly i perfer the lemon peel). and for clean up crew(cuc) hermits have a tendency to attack snails so wach out ther and just get a variaty of snails too. i would add 5 to 10 every week until they get the algae under control. but dont add any until ther is algae. non of thoes fish are jumpers but i would get something to go over your tank. and you can buy one of thoes time capsual feeders while you are away so your fish get what they work for and this way you dont have left over food in your tank.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I have that exact tank...I keep Kuda seahorses in it. Welcome to the site!

Make sure the rock is on the bottom of the tank and the sand around it, otherwise the goby you want, which is a digger, may get crushed or cause a rock slide, which could also break the tank. There are so many fish in the sea...get this book


A example page, so you can see the kind of info it offers...click on the image to enlarge it.
 

kenman345

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by trigger40 http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544804
alright, you have just about all you need for your tank as far as equepment goes and then some, but i would think it would be safe to wate another week or two befor adding new fish and what wher readings when you started your cycle because 8 days doesnt sound right. but 4 clowns is risky if ther is more than a pair they might fight and kill eachother. i would pick your two favoret clown and then have a pair of them. if you wand a mandy you need to go buy more live rock to seed your bass rock for pods. the gobies are a good idea and i dont know much about shrimp so i cant help you ther. but i dont remember seeing what you have for lighting if you dont have any you will NEED it. pick your favoret angel because they can not go together. (persanoly i perfer the lemon peel). and for clean up crew(cuc) hermits have a tendency to attack snails so wach out ther and just get a variaty of snails too. i would add 5 to 10 every week until they get the algae under control. but dont add any until ther is algae. non of thoes fish are jumpers but i would get something to go over your tank. and you can buy one of thoes time capsual feeders while you are away so your fish get what they work for and this way you dont have left over food in your tank.
I am not getting 4 clownfish, I was referring to the 2 different clownfish. One with a black body with 3 white stripes and the other would be orange with 3 white stripes.

I used Bio-Spira when I added the Chromis but it didnt help them to survive but it did cycle my tank really fast.

I jut checked this morning what the levels were on my tank for the first time since adding fish. I was in a hurry so I only checked my Ammonia and Nitrites. I got a zero PPM reading from both of them even though I added the first fish on Saturday. Is that normal? I feel like maybe it's the Bio-Spira in the mix. I didnt add any extra since when I first started to cycle the tank, since I forgot to add some when I added the new inhabitant after the cycle was completed. I was thinking of getting a different type of cardinalfish in there since a Bengaii Cardinal is tank-bred and might show my wild caught PJ Cardinal that pellets can be food. The LFS I like around me is getting some in tomorrow so I figured if I keep testing in the next few days and its stable that I can add one more fish and then wait 4-6 weeks before adding the next set of fish since I wanted to get my tank equipment all configured before making my screen top for the tank and getting goby's.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenman345 http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544828
I am not getting 4 clownfish, I was referring to the 2 different clownfish. One with a black body with 3 white stripes and the other would be orange with 3 white stripes.

I used Bio-Spira when I added the Chromis but it didnt help them to survive but it did cycle my tank really fast.

I jut checked this morning what the levels were on my tank for the first time since adding fish. I was in a hurry so I only checked my Ammonia and Nitrites. I got a zero PPM reading from both of them even though I added the first fish on Saturday. Is that normal? I feel like maybe it's the Bio-Spira in the mix. I didnt add any extra since when I first started to cycle the tank, since I forgot to add some when I added the new inhabitant after the cycle was completed. I was thinking of getting a different type of cardinalfish in there since a Bengaii Cardinal is tank-bred and might show my wild caught PJ Cardinal that pellets can be food. The LFS I like around me is getting some in tomorrow so I figured if I keep testing in the next few days and its stable that I can add one more fish and then wait 4-6 weeks before adding the next set of fish since I wanted to get my tank equipment all configured before making my screen top for the tank and getting goby's.

Hi...color means nothing, a clownfish is a clownfish is a clown fish. People mix breed them all the time to get certain colors, they are still the same fish, and they will fight. The 56g you have is a tall tank, and it doesn't allow for as much room as the longer 48 inch one does...that means even more fighting for territory.

The live rock will help cycle the tank, just a heads up, it's cruel to cycle a tank with live fish. A chunk of raw shrimp, or 1/4th cup of pure ammonia, or ghost feed, does the exact same thing and maybe even faster. The biggest problem I see is that you don't use a quarantine tank... If your fish get ich parasites you will have to remove all of your fish from the display, and leave it empty for 8 weeks to let the parasite die off without a host.

Being in a hurry always spells disaster when it comes to keeping SW fish, and you are moving forward way too fast.
 

kenman345

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544829

Hi...color means nothing, a clownfish is a clownfish is a clown fish. People mix breed them all the time to get certain colors, they are still the same fish, and they will fight. The 56g you have is a tall tank, and it doesn't allow for as much room as the longer 48 inch one does...that means even more fighting for territory.

The live rock will help cycle the tank, just a heads up, it's cruel to cycle a tank with live fish. A chunk of raw shrimp, or 1/4th cup of pure ammonia, or ghost feed, does the exact same thing and maybe even faster. The biggest problem I see is that you don't use a quarantine tank... If your fish get ich parasites you will have to remove all of your fish from the display, and leave it empty for 8 weeks to let the parasite die off without a host.

Being in a hurry always spells disaster when it comes to keeping SW fish, and you are moving forward way too fast.
This is why I am looking for advice. I understand both of the clownfish are of the same type and they still might fight. I have read what I can do to lessen that as much as possible though.

Thanks for pointing out that I am moving fast, I understand this and would really love to use a quarantine tank but simply do not know where I can put it at the moment. I am running a secondary sponge filter for the purpose of building up bacteria though for whenever I do start a quarantine tank.

I think I will talk to my LFS and see how often they get the tank-bred fish in. If they are getting more in a few weeks, I will wait till then to get my other cardinal. Otherwise if I get one this weekend then I will be doing a water change beforehand as well as waiting more than a month before adding any more fish after this next one. I want the bio-load to be very stabilized before adding in pairs of fish like the goby and the clownfish. Trying to avoid the parasite issue on the more expensive fish, I plan to add the clownfish after the other fish but before the mandarin and angelfish since those will need a more mature tank before I can consider getting them.

Any recommendations for other fish? Anything with my CUC that you can comment on? With a 56G tank and only wanting 8 fish at present, wouldn't this be a low stocked tank? I honestly may not even get the Angelfish and only get a mandarin after having the clownfish so it would only be 7 fish in that case. With the amount of hiding spots the chromis seemed to find when I had them in the tank, I think I made a good use of the space I have and may even decide to add a little bit more live rock at some point.
 

jay0705

Well-Known Member
I have the same tank. I love the height, but u do lose length and due to that types of fish are limited. Now moving fast is disastrous, from what ive read in your posts, it seems your tank did cycle. Mixing cardinals doesnt always work. If you want a tank bred I would get the same kind u have now. The clowns, I have 2 blacks in my 56. They paired up and dont bother any other fish. The issue u will have is this. If u try a mix and it doesnt work, u dont have another tank to separate them. I have 2 black,2 orange,1 maroon clown. All in diff tanks, they fine w other fish but I wouldnt try them w eachother. . Clean up crew. I use cerith, narsissus, turbo snails, pep shrimp and skunk cleaner shrimp. If algae is an issue I like urchins to help the snails. I also like blue legged hermits, there smaller than reds.
 

kenman345

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay0705 http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544838
I have the same tank. I love the height, but u do lose length and due to that types of fish are limited. Now moving fast is disastrous, from what ive read in your posts, it seems your tank did cycle. Mixing cardinals doesnt always work. If you want a tank bred I would get the same kind u have now. The clowns, I have 2 blacks in my 56. They paired up and dont bother any other fish. The issue u will have is this. If u try a mix and it doesnt work, u dont have another tank to separate them. I have 2 black,2 orange,1 maroon clown. All in diff tanks, they fine w other fish but I wouldnt try them w eachother. . Clean up crew. I use cerith, narsissus, turbo snails, pep shrimp and skunk cleaner shrimp. If algae is an issue I like urchins to help the snails. I also like blue legged hermits, there smaller than reds.
Thank you, this helps a lot.

Since the tank seems stable, if the readings are the same for the next 4 days, would you think it is safe to try the other cardinalfish though? In the future I want pairs to be added so I'll be waiting an extra 2 weeks after the tank seems ready just to make sure of everything but in this situation I have 1 fish that's less than 2 inches long to the entire 56G tank which had enough fish in it previously to buil up the bacteria meant for multiple fish.
 

kenman345

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay0705 http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544845
In theory yes u should b ok
Thanks. I see you're in NY, what parts? I am in LI.

I am really hoping everything is okay as it would be a small fortune to have to pay for shipping to get the fish I want if it's not when the store has them. If I end up getting the fish this weekend, then I will definitely be holding off on any more livestock for a good 4-6 weeks regardless of the tank being ready for more inhabitants earlier or not.
 

silverado61

Well-Known Member
Here's a question: what happens when you finish stocking your tank and the last fish you put in starts showing signs of ich? Or the first fish? Where are you going o put all those fish to treat them? You can't treat the display with copper or hypo because that would kill all the inverts and copper also permeates the sand and rocks so you'll never be able to put inverts back in there so you will have no cuc.

No quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette with your fish. Your worried about the cost of shipping when a $10 quarantine tank is like buying insurance. There are no guarantees but your fish and tank stand a much better chance of surviving with one than without one. All it takes is one fish for the whole tank to get infected.

You really should just stop buying fish now until you find a spot to put a 10g tank and start QTing everything from here on out.

For the sake of your fish and everything you have invested so far, slow......... down.
 

kenman345

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado61 http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544848
Here's a question: what happens when you finish stocking your tank and the last fish you put in starts showing signs of ich? Or the first fish? Where are you going o put all those fish to treat them? You can't treat the display with copper or hypo because that would kill all the inverts and copper also permeates the sand and rocks so you'll never be able to put inverts back in there so you will have no cuc.

No quarantine tank is like playing Russian roulette with your fish. Your worried about the cost of shipping when a $10 quarantine tank is like buying insurance. There are no guarantees but your fish and tank stand a much better chance of surviving with one than without one. All it takes is one fish for the whole tank to get infected.

You really should just stop buying fish now until you find a spot to put a 10g tank and start QTing everything from here on out.

For the sake of your fish and everything you have invested so far, slow......... down.
How is $10 enough for a quarantine tank?
 

kenman345

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado61 http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544852
My bad. I miss quoted. 10g tank $10. Filter $15. Air pump $5. $30 for the whole qt.
I actually have all those besides the filter if I wanted to go with a regular filter and only use the sponge if I am dosing medicine. I just really have no place to set it up.

I am going to the fish store later and see if maybe I can just upgrade my freshwater tank and get a double tank stand for two 10G tanks so that i have the bottom one as a QT. I will keep everyone posted.
 

jay0705

Well-Known Member
A qt is a good investment. The only other option is to watch fish at the lfs for a few wks. If they remain healthy, and have no new fish added w them they should be ok, no gurantees tho. I live in wny, south of buffalo
 

kenman345

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay0705 http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544868
A qt is a good investment. The only other option is to watch fish at the lfs for a few wks. If they remain healthy, and have no new fish added w them they should be ok, no gurantees tho. I live in wny, south of buffalo
Okay Okay everyone, I now have a QT...


I will be adding a second 10G tank above it for my freshwater tank. The freshwater fish I have are currently housed in a 5G tank.
 
If you are looking for any more knowledge on the subject and are looking for books that can help you in the future, I have a thread called books for beginner, thats easy to understand and wont break your budget
 

kenman345

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by drowningoceans http:///t/397624/started-a-56g-fowlr-tank-and-could-use-some-help-with-picking-fish#post_3544893
If you are looking for any more knowledge on the subject and are looking for books that can help you in the future, I have a thread called books for beginner, thats easy to understand and wont break your budget
Consider my budget absolutely demolished. I've got all my gear and just need the fish to make this hobby more a reality.

I have been reading some books and online quite a lot
 
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