Starting a 75 Gallon soon - Got questions

[jayjeep]

I just purchased a used 75 gallon tank with an overflow. It came with some lights and a 37 gallon tank (for refugium). I still have to build a stand but in the meantime I am starting to collect equipment and information that I will need. I will list some of my questions here:
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Do I need a RO system right away or can I use tap water with conditioner?
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If I get a RO system what size (gpd) would you suggest for 75 gallon tank?
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When you make the ro water where do you store it and would I mix the salt in right away or wait till water change time?
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What size pump would I need for the return to tank?
In the refugium I plan to also have a skimmer, do I need to have the skimmer right away or can it wait?
Does the skimmer need to be in a separate chamber in the refugium?
Whats the maintenance/equipment difference between FOWLR and a reef?
Where is a good place/book to research compatible creatures?
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That's enough questions for now. I know I will have some more. I want to get things sorted out before I set up the tank.
Background: I have had a Freshwater Cichlid tank for about 5 years now, so I have some aquarium experience but this will be my first saltwater tank.

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJeep http:///t/388280/starting-a-75-gallon-soon-got-questions#post_3423297
I just purchased a used 75 gallon tank with an overflow. It came with some lights and a 37 gallon tank (for refugium). I still have to build a stand but in the meantime I am starting to collect equipment and information that I will need. I will list some of my questions here:
[list type=decimal]
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Do I need a RO system right away or can I use tap water with conditioner? Tap water with conditioner will work, but I honestly don't recommend it. If you haven't purchased an RO unit yet, most LFS's sell RO water, and some Walmart's do as well. There's too much risk involved with tap water, other than just the chlorine, and you want to start off on the right foot.
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If I get a RO system what size (gpd) would you suggest for 75 gallon tank? I only have a 75gpd one and it works fine for my 180 along with a few other smaller tanks (less than 50G each). Filling the 180 was not fun, and I did use my RO, but I also went to the LFS and bought about 50G or so of RO from them.
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When you make the ro water where do you store it and would I mix the salt in right away or wait till water change time? I store my RO water in a Rubbermaid 40G container and once the bucket is full, I mix in the salt. You want the salt to mix in with a powerhead in the bucket for 24 hours before water changes. In emergencies, I've used the saltwater freshly mixed, but it's not recommended.
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What size pump would I need for the return to tank? I'm confused, are you using the smaller tank as a sump and refugium? I would run at least a 800GPH return pump. A lot depends on how far the water has to travel, etc.
In the refugium I plan to also have a skimmer, do I need to have the skimmer right away or can it wait? It can wait.
Does the skimmer need to be in a separate chamber in the refugium? Recommended, but it depends on the skimmer and what you plan on keeping in the refugium. It sounds as if you are planning a sump, not a refugium.
Whats the maintenance/equipment difference between FOWLR and a reef? FOWLR's are a little more forgiving. You can get away with higher nitrate or phosphate numbers than you can with a reef (corals don't like nitrate and phosphate, but it really doesn't effect fish). From personal experience, I think reefs are easier, for whatever reason. Once you get them right, they sort of maintain themselves, for a lack of a better way of explaining it. Besides, every time I set up a FOWLR, it eventually ends up as a reef. Tanks without corals just start to bore me.
Where is a good place/book to research compatible creatures? "Marine Fishes" by Scott W. Michael is a must have as far as I'm concerned. "Reef Aquarium Fishes" by Scott W. Michael is a good one as well. And "Marine Invertebrates" by Ronald Shimek Ph.D All of these are excellent books for quick info on a species and their compatibility. They're are numerous compatibility charts available on the web as well.
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That's enough questions for now. I know I will have some more. I want to get things sorted out before I set up the tank.
Background: I have had a Freshwater Cichlid tank for about 5 years now, so I have some aquarium experience but this will be my first saltwater tank.
Welcome to the addiction!

 

[jayjeep]

Thanks for the information. What is the big difference between a sump and refugium?
My plan was to have the 37 gallon tank with a section for refugium stuff...(sand, live rock, algae,...etc) then have a separate section where the skimmer would go and another section for the heater and return pump....Is that a refugium or sump?

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJeep http:///t/388280/starting-a-75-gallon-soon-got-questions#post_3423326
Thanks for the information. What is the big difference between a sump and refugium?
My plan was to have the 37 gallon tank with a section for refugium stuff...(sand, live rock, algae,...etc) then have a separate section where the skimmer would go and another section for the heater and return pump....Is that a refugium or sump?
Sounds like you're setting up a combination of a sump and refugium, which is fine, and what most people do. I have a sump, which holds my equipment and return pump, and a separate refugium with a line that brings water to and from the sump. As long as you have something that separates the chambers a little so you don't end up with your return pump clogged full of macro algae from the refugium, you're fine.

 

[jayjeep]

Yeah I plan to have the refugium on one side and a skimmer on the other side of the tank. Water will split before entering small tank, one to refugium side one to skimmer side. both section will overflow in to the center section that will have the pump and heater.. At least that is what I am thinking.. unless someone else has a different idea/input.

 

[southern wolf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJeep http:///t/388280/starting-a-75-gallon-soon-got-questions#post_3423372
Yeah I plan to have the refugium on one side and a skimmer on the other side of the tank. Water will split before entering small tank, one to refugium side one to skimmer side. both section will overflow in to the center section that will have the pump and heater.. At least that is what I am thinking.. unless someone else has a different idea/input.
Im interested in hearing the pro's thoughts on this... especially since my tank is still in the planning stages as well.

 

[jayjeep]

Ok, I think I have my filter planned out. My next question is about setting up the tank.
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Do I put the live rock and sand in before I start to fill up the tank?
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Can I start with mostly base rock and some live rock and live sand?
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Curing LR? What is it?
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I plan on buying a Ro unit soon once I find a deal, do I have to mix the salt 24hrs prior if it will be the initial water to be put in the tank?
Anybody have any suggestions for filling the tank for the first time?
How do I make and store 75 gallons of ro water if I will probably never need that amount again in the future?
Can anybody recommend a pump to put in the sump/refugium?
How do you prevent sump overflow in the event of a power outage?
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Sorry for all the questions, but some of these things I can't find in the search. I want to get this right the first time to help reduce headaches.
TIA
Jason

 

[southern wolf]

for once I can actually answer a question.
Number 8.... some folks drill a small hole in their return line right at the water line. This way when the power goes out... the pump doesn't create a syphon. The small hole lets air in and thus breaks the syphon.

 

[jayjeep]

That's what I was thinking. I haven't really looked at the return line that is currently on there (used tank) so didn't know if anybody had any other tricks. Just got to keep that hole from clogging.
Thanks.

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJeep http:///t/388280/starting-a-75-gallon-soon-got-questions#post_3424060
Ok, I think I have my filter planned out. My next question is about setting up the tank.
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Do I put the live rock and sand in before I start to fill up the tank? Rock, Then sand, then water. Some people do water first the rock, then sand. I think it makes less of a mess if you add rock, sand, and then add water. Add the water by pouring it through a pasta strainer or over a dish to spread it out more and it won't kick up as much sand and make a mess of the tank.
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Can I start with mostly base rock and some live rock and live sand? Yup, and it's cheaper (and less likely to get hitch hikers that way). Go with regular bagged sand (that stuff really isn't live, even though they claim it is) and ask a local fish store with a reef or someone locally that has a reef for a few cups of sand (3 is more than enough) to help seed your sand bed, it will become live over time.
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Curing LR? What is it? Live rock is full of beneficial bacteria. If the rock has been left out in the air for any period of time, some of this bacteria starts to die. When you cure live rock, you're making sure that there is no more die off. That's the easiest way I can explain it. I'm sure others can give more scientific answers, lol
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I plan on buying a Ro unit soon once I find a deal, do I have to mix the salt 24hrs prior if it will be the initial water to be put in the tank? It's a good idea. Depending on the salt mix, some really need to mix for a while before the salinity reads correctly. It's a good habit to get into. Have I added immediately after mixing? Yes. Do I make a habit of it? No.
Anybody have any suggestions for filling the tank for the first time? see above. And trust me, You'll rearrange the rock work 100 times and never be fully satisfied with it, LOL. You'll always see someone elses tank and go "Damn, I wish I did that." I'd also recommend putting pieces of egg crate down before rock or sand. It gives a more stable surface for your rock to sit on than just the glass on the bottom of the tank, and can help evenly distribute weight.
How do I make and store 75 gallons of ro water if I will probably never need that amount again in the future? It's a PITA. Try filling a 180! I did mine over a few days. I made enough to cover my live rock and sand, without having my rock really stacked how I wanted it, and Once the tank was about half filled, I began to built up my live rock. When the tank wasn't filled enough to run return pumps, I just kept powerheads and a heater in the tank to keep that water circulating, since I was using already cured live rock.
Can anybody recommend a pump to put in the sump/refugium? I really like Pondmaster Mag return pumps, but for some reason they're getting harder to find.
How do you prevent sump overflow in the event of a power outage? Drill a tiny hole (I stabbed mine with a nail) just above or below your return on the return line. It stops the siphoning when it hits the air. Other option: get float switches, if the sump fills to a certain height, it turns off the return. These really help in case someone where to get stuck in your overflow line and might make your tank overflow, or if someone gets stuck in the return line and might overflow your sump as well.
Sorry for all the questions, but some of these things I can't find in the search. I want to get this right the first time to help reduce headaches.
TIA
Jason

 

[jayjeep]

What bagged sand are you talking about? The stuff with water and sand in it? I do need live rock to go with the base rock right?
Thanks again.
I will hopefully have the stand built this weekend and can start filling next week sometime.

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJeep http:///t/388280/starting-a-75-gallon-soon-got-questions#post_3424099
What bagged sand are you talking about? The stuff with water and sand in it? I do need live rock to go with the base rock right?
Thanks again.
I will hopefully have the stand built this weekend and can start filling next week sometime.
Yes. I will say that I have used CaribSea and had no issues, it's the only bagged sand I really like. I would throw a few pieces of live rock to seed the base rock, but you don't need much. It's really up to you on how much you want to spend, base rock is much, much cheaper, but not as pretty in the beginning. My base rock seeded within a few months and you can't tell what was base rock and what was rock I already had anymore. I you look at my 180 thread, you can see how everything started and what it looks like now. It was started in June.
The best "live sand" out there is: https://www.saltwaterfish.com/Premium-Keys-Live-Sand--40lbs--FREE-Shipping_p_989.html It's actually live sand, from the sea floor.

 

[jayjeep]

As for pumps, What is the recommended turn over rate I should be looking for?

 

[btldreef]

I'd be looking at the 750-900GPH range. Plus you'll need powerheads.

 

[jayjeep]

Would that be 700-900 gph before or after subtracting head loss to tank?
I have one powerhead right now that came with the tank.

 

[btldreef]

I'd go with before, but it depends on your powerhead, etc. I ran a 700GPH (before head pressure) on my 40G, but I didn't use any powerheads.

 

[jayjeep]

Ok, So I have been doing more and more research while I am building my tank stand (almost done). I have a few more questions about quarantine tanks. From what I've researched all you need for a quarantine is the basics - Heater, hob filter and something for the fish to hide in/behind. I have a 30 gallon I was using for freshwater but no longer need and it has a hob filter and a heater that I can use.
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When running a QT, how do you keep it running when you are not using it for anything?
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I assume you acclimate the new fish to the qt as you would to a DT, correct?
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Do you also have to acclimate the fish between the QT and the DT?
For my new DT, do I have to quarantine the CUC before I add them to the DT? (there will be no fish in there at that time)
What to add for CUC? or where to find information in one location about CUC?
When first putting sand in the DT, what do you use for the non live sand?
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TIA
Jason

 

[jayjeep]

Update: I bought a 950 gph pondmaster pump and a RO/DI unit (both have yet to arrive). I am also almost done with the tank stand just have to put the doors on and stain it. If anybody has a recommendation for sealing the stand I would appreciate it. Next on my list is to build the sump/refugium. I'm going to build the section for a protein skimmer even though I do not have one yet. I have a couple more questions in addition to the previous questions.
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How many powerheads would be suggested for a 75 gallon tank? What size?
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Can I cycle the tank without a light fixture? (building a canopy after the stand)
How deep is a deep sand bed?
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TIA
Jason

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJeep http:///t/388280/starting-a-75-gallon-soon-got-questions#post_3426030
Update: I bought a 950 gph pondmaster pump and a RO/DI unit (both have yet to arrive). I am also almost done with the tank stand just have to put the doors on and stain it. If anybody has a recommendation for sealing the stand I would appreciate it. Next on my list is to build the sump/refugium. I'm going to build the section for a protein skimmer even though I do not have one yet. I have a couple more questions in addition to the previous questions.
[list type=decimal]
[*]
How many powerheads would be suggested for a 75 gallon tank? What size?
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Can I cycle the tank without a light fixture? (building a canopy after the stand)
How deep is a deep sand bed?
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TIA
Jason
I think you will be happy with the Pondmaster pump. What kind of RO/DI unit did you get?
For powerheads I would suggest a couple of koralia evolutions- maybe two 1050"s. There is no exact number needed for a particular tank, you just need to make sure that you have no dead spots (you might even need 3 maybe smaller ones positioned differently).
cycle away without a light. Saves a bit on the power bill, I also cycled with a lower Sg (1.021 vs 1.025) to save a bit of money on salt. It does not really matter because I had to bring up the Sg eventually when I added my corals back.
DSB's are pretty deep. You are looking at about 6-9 inches (from my little amount of research) This might be the higher end I think the minimum is 4-6 inches.
Before you asked on how to store all the water you would need to set up the 75g. I made water a few days before I filled my 125g and stored it in containers. So I could fill the tank in 1 shot. I did end up going to get some more RO water from the store to get the last 20+ gallons. LOL Here is a pic (did not work like I wanted to, the darn pic is at the top of the reply. LOL). I also had a 32g brute trash can full with water 2X's. They are the best for storing water.
HTH's
Good luck and we would love to see pics.

 

[jayjeep]

I got a Aquasafe 6 stage off of ebay.
What kind of sand is used for the non live sand? Something that I could add live sand to seed it with.