Starting over after 10yrs running with no problems

[constance]

For 10 yrs had very few problems with tank. On vacation for 2wks, had friend feed fish, came home two dead in tank, two dead in bottom of magnum filter. Had small amount of cyanobactera in tank, came back it's taking over, tank now toxic. Clean tank, 20% water change and now starting over. Tank is two 28 gallon acrylic hex aquariums-connected via of two tubes (eye candy) also the tank from hell re: maintenance, because of design of tank can't have a protein skimmer, running magnum 350 with water polisher only on one side of tank; water is now crystal clear, running biological filtration in Eheim on other side, UG with 301 poweheads, use only R/I water, test water, had store test water, was told "not" to buy fish now, was told I had high phosphate in water, take out carbon, put chemi-clean in tank, after 48 hours do 20% water change, after water change put phosphate + Silicate Magnert in Eheim, then I can start buying new fish, Beth what do you think about what the store told me, also question: am I buying fish for the nitrogen cycle like two false percula because I don't like damsel or I don't have to do the cycle and can buy what I want for the tank. I thank you in advance for your help, I welcome all help.

 

[beth]

Constance the problem with your phosphates is likely a setup problem that is not going to be resolved by water changes. I don't know why you can't put a skimmer on a hex? There are a few hang-on skimmers that will fit.
Do you have Live Rock or Live Sand? How do you have your tank set up?
Don't "cycle" your tank with live animals, especially with clowns. They will not likely do well.
Did you have phosphates before you went on vacation?? Does your water test for phosphates before you put it in your tank?
Give some more info about how you have your tank set up.

 

[constance]

Beth,
Before I did my research I put Chemi-clean in the tank last night, we see what happen after the 48 hour wait.
:cheer: I am one happy camper thanks to you, you said that my phosphates is likely a setup problem, and I was thinking what is she talking about the tank has been setup like this for 10yrs and I just started having this problem. Not true, there was always some red slime around. Well you were right, I found out that aquariums that are not operated using the more “recent” reef aquarium principles. Fish-only tank with dead coral in it or a reef tank that does not use live sand or the live rock method of filtration will have high levers of phosphates. I was thinking, I couldn’t keep the fishes alive, now I’m going to have to keep some rocks and sand alive. Well wouldn’t you know it, my tank is a fish-only tank, has no live rock or sand, it has crush coral, and many pieces of decorative dead coral. aka: A back in the day tank you could say, LOL. It was setup this way by the store, In 1993 when I got it, the store didn’t have skimmer, and I didn’t know what I was doing, not that I know what I’m doing now, but you are helping me learn. I love the look of crush coral on the bottom of my tank. Will the magnet allow me to keep the crush coral or will I have to replace it with live something?
I also found out that I can introduce phosphate into the tank in 2 many ways, phosphate in the water that I’m using, I buy reverse osmosis water thinking it would be fine, now I find out I need to test it before making the saltwater. If I find phosphate in the water the phosphate magnet will clean it up, is that right? I checked my salt, Red Sea and Instant ocean states no phosphate thank God for that, however I found out carbon can leach phosphate into the water, one of my fish foods Tetracolor tropical flakes food has some phosphate in it, I’m no longer going to use that. I’m putting a phosphate magnet in my Eheim filter to take care of all the other causes; like the fish slime, decay of the food that is not consumed, algae die-off and its decomposition, bacterial die-off and its decomposition and mineralization, is the OK? All the authors cite zero ppm PO4 as a good goal. Thiel, and others after him, have proven levels lower than 0.1 ppm are too high. Ideally I need to maintain my phosphate concentration at 0.03 to 0.04 ppm. The next thing on my to do list is to buy a skimmer. Oh and from now on I will not cycle my tank with live animals. Is there any thing else I need to be doing? Thanks so much Beth, wish I could send you some chocolates.

 

[beth]

Constance, sorry it is taking a bit of time to answer, but my mom just had surgery, so I have been over to her house mostly helping out. No pc there.
I will answer though, as your situation is so common to the hobby. I have exp it myself, we all do.

 

[beth]

Before I did my research I put Chemi-clean in the tank last night, we see what happen after the 48 hour wait.
Personally I have used chemi-clean with good results…for a time. I believe it will take care of a temporary cyrno problem but it won’t “kill it off” thus the cyrano comes back [resistant to the chemi-clean too, I might add]. Cyrano is a bacteria, thus you may reduce colonies by doing various things but it will keep coming back to varying degrees. The objective is to control it and not allow it to become a nuisance. Or, if it does grow to epidemic proportions, then you will have various things that you can do to get it under control. Back to clemi-clean, while I have had success with it wo any noted problem to my overall tank or the animals, others have reported serious problems. I have contacted the manufacture about this product to confirm that it does not have any antibiotics. It is strongly recommended to follow dosing exactly, and not to exceed dose or treatment course. Saying that, what I have found is that the bacteria become resistant to the product. Just as it would if you used antibiotics to threat the cyrno.
I have also found that you can take care of an epidemic by having the tank lights off for several days, just on during feeding, then off again. Of course, you need to address the overall “health” of your system. This would include lighting quality [no old lamps], use good quality water and salt that tests zero for nitrates and phosphates, have excellent circulation throughout the tank; that means at the lowers levels as well [bottom of tank]. [The best way you can tell if your circulation is good is by using a turkey baster and squirting food down low in the tank. If your tank has adequate circulation then food WILL NOT drop to the bottom. In fact, it will be a real effort to make food go down to the substrate.] Run this test thoughout your tank [not all at once else you will pollute the tank!] to see if you have any problem spots. There was a very long thread in the REEF Forum on Cyrno that you may want to Search for.
I found out that aquariums that are not operated using the more “recent” reef aquarium principles. Fish-only tank with dead coral in it or a reef tank that does not use live sand or the live rock method of filtration will have high levers of phosphates.
Diverse biological filtrations is the best way to go with most tank setup. Natural filtration includes: live rock, live sand, skimmer, desirable macro algae in a refugium, animal detrivores, etc. You can certainly keep a Fish tank that does not include corals, but it should include LR and LS if you want to create the natural filters, otherwise, you have to depend upon carbon, filter pads, un-natural media filters, including the phosguard, etc. If you can set up your tank in a manner that it can handle export of wastes wo chemicals and mechanical filters, then that is good. Or at least, rely on them very little rather than having them be the primary or sole support for your tank. Many hobbyists prefer the larger size substrate but it doesn’t necessarily “add” to the overall ability of the tank to “filter”. The latest trend is to go sand-less or to use sand as for its appeal only. Myself, I have a DBS, deep sandbed, which is a primary filter in my tank. I also enjoy having it as there is so much life to look at and enjoy nurturing. However, DSB require a great deal of TLC. Unless you are willing to treat it with as much priority as you do your fish, then it is not advisable to use.
my tank is a fish-only tank, has no live rock or sand, it has crush coral, and many pieces of decorative dead coral.
How deep is the crushed coral bed? IMO, better to have a DSB with smaller grained size or no sand at all except a very little for décor if you like. A thick bed of cc is basically a detritus trap=spelling nitrates and phosphates. In other words, the larger grain size of CC results in less overall surface space for beneficial bacteria to grow and, the larger size also “traps” waste making it extremely difficult to maintain an efficient substrate. Instead of the substrate filtering as in the case with my DSB, it traps wastes and is unable to export that waste [resulting in waste buildup—nitrates and phosphates]. Keep in mind that everything in your tank should have a purpose. Beauty is secondary, or it a secondary and natural by-product of setting up an efficient natural system. Also, get a skimmer. They sell hang on skimmers, which I actually use. The Remora Pro is probably the best one. If you buy it, don’t get the RIO pump that usually comes with it. Or the MagDrive 350. Upgrade to at least the MagDrive 500.I also found out that I can introduce phosphate into the tank in 2 many ways, phosphate in the water that I’m using, I buy reverse osmosis water thinking it would be fine, now I find out I need to test it before making the saltwater. If I find phosphate in the water the phosphate magnet will clean it up, is that right?
No, don’t use that. Find a good source of water. I am advising you to get an RO/DI unit. You will save a lot of money in the long run [say 6 mos] as bottled water can be costly, not to mention a pain to haul around from the store. You can get a good RO for $250.
I checked my salt, Red Sea and Instant ocean states no phosphate thank God for that, however I found out carbon can leach phosphate into the water
If you will set up a better system, you won’t have to use carbon. Constant use of carbon is not the best way to run a tank, and could even result in problems with some fish. Carbon can be used for a short-term polisher, but IMO, better not to use it 24/7. If it is used, 1 day a mo should do it.
one of my fish foods Tetracolor tropical flakes food has some phosphate in it, I’m no longer going to use that.
Flaked, and dried foods have a good deal of phosphates. Consider the nutritional needs of the animals in your tank and then make a natural fish food based on the needs of your tank animals. One example is the recipe I have listed in the FAQ Thread.
I’m putting a phosphate magnet in my Eheim filter to take care of all the other causes; like the fish slime, decay of the food that is not consumed, algae die-off and its decomposition, bacterial die-off and its decomposition and mineralization, is the OK?
I say its time to spend your money and your effort in upgrading your system the natural way. Get away from mechanical and chemical filters and start thinking and learning how to set up biological and natural filters. You will not regret it once you do. And I can tell you with certainty that you will enjoy the hobby a lot more when you can worry less about wastes and think more about the beauty that you have created.
Have you any good reference books? I can suggest a few that can really be helpful in regards to setting up a natural system.

 

[constance]

Thanks,
I have much to do and a lot of reading.

 

[beth]

I can recommend some good books if you are interested.