still no sign of ammonia or nitrite!!!

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
My tank has been up and running for almost 2 weeks. This last Friday i decided to add some live rock, that was not supposed to be cured (It was shipped so there is no way possible it arrived fully cured) I added 25 lbs of figi, then on saturday i added one damsel. Why havent i seen any sign of ammonia or nitrite in my tank? I know if i do get any my fish will die, but he hasnt shown any signs yet.
Running berlin skimmer, wet dry, and only have FO's on while i wait for my 660 in the mail.
 

sgt__york

Member
He's right.. these ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels will not be noticible by the eye. And the reason you use a damsel to help start a cycle is they are cheap and often tough enough to withstand the toxic levels better than other, more expensive fish.
If you bring in a small water sample (a cup is fine) your LFS can tell you what these levels are. But since it's best to test ur water every few days as you do ur initial cycle so you can monitor the progress - it's best to purchase a test kit yourself.
Good luck to you
 

sal t. nutz

Member
You shouldn't run the skimmer during cycling. I'm not saying that is the entire cause of what you are experiencing, just letting you know.
 

sgt__york

Member
yep.. i think i had said in an earlier post - the general rule of thumb is 1 damsel per 10 gal of tank. Thus for your 5x gal - I would think 5 damsels would do the trick. Just remember, you gotta CATCH those boogers when your done w/em.
Since it is highly likely you have a base bacteria established - you might wanna use PERCULA CLOWNS instead. On the up side - they are more beautiful and friendly - and "MUCH" easier to catch. You might find you even want to keep them. The DOWN SIDE (risk) - is they are about 3x more expensive than the damsels "IF" you lose any.
As stated before you could also just try a piece of shrimp in the tank - definately easier to catch.. ROFL :D
Adding an increased load - should send you thru a very minimum cycle if your already established -- which is sounds like you are. As said above, you are one of the lucky ones to have such established media.
I do find that quite surprising as you said yourself the rock was shipped and not fully cured. I added 20lbs of live fiji rock myself, and it sent my system through a cycle as well - altho it only lasted about 1-1.5wks. I find it hard to believe you introduced that rock - tested each day - and saw NO ammonia spikes at all. But who am I to argue with empirical data? :)
If you keep 5-6 fish (damsel, clown, whatever) for a few weeks without signs of stress or death AND testing STILL shows no ammonia or nitrites - consider yourself cycled :) You should also see Nitrate levels begin to rise PROVING the conversion is taking place and confirming your cycled. If you have good lighting on there, you should also begin to see a mini diatom bloom, followed by a green algae bloom in your tank.
Good luck to you :)
 

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
this all is also weird to me, for months ive researched what is supposed to happen when you introduce uncured live rock to your tank- an ammonia spike, nitrites >0. But i didnt happen. As for the one damsel, the other day when i went to the fish store i told the guy that i had put rock into my tank, i was going to get a couple of peculas but then i didnt know what the tests would show. I got home, did the tests which showed nothing. I didnt want to add more than 1 b/c ive read so many posts on getting them out. I might go tonite and get a few more damsels, i still dont want to risk killing clowns.
What would running my skimmer do while cycling do, other than just running it for no reason????
 

bradburycf

Member
I am wondering if maybe your LR was fully cured. Did it smell really bad? If it was cured, it would explain why you didn't spike after placing it in. And just like the good Sgt mentioned, you probably aren't providing a lg enough bioload to cause a spike in ammonia and help move the cycle along. As to the skimmer, I have no idea why you aren't supposed to use one at first. I just used it as an excuse to not spend any money on one until later :D .
 

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
The rock i got was supposed to not be cured, but i didnt have a smell to it. Ohh well, ill just go and buy something else to put in my tank, clown or damsel. But i hate to have to dig these sob's out of the rock later
 

sgt__york

Member
dead shrimp??? And miss all the fun of chasing a damsel outta your tank??? Everyone should have to experience it at least once... dontcha think?? hahahahah (joking) :cool:
HEY.. if i have to do this... everyone should have to!! :D LOL
Actually, what i learned.. is never to spend all the time stacking your rock and getting it to look like u want UNTIL AFTER you catch the SOB damsels. That way, you don't mind taking all the rock out to catch the buggers.
Shrimp i'm sure would work fine. I just hate to look at my tank and see.... a dead shrimp... LOL
Easier... yes... but just no fun... LOL :rolleyes:
 

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
im not going to put anything dead into my tank, seems like bad luck for the future. Im in no hurry for anything. When i start feeling better ill make a trip to the fish store and pick up 3 or 4 more damsels. Ill keep ya'll posted on my params!!! But as of now still 0's
 
S

sinner's girl

Guest
using dead shrimp is better than killing/stressing a live fish imo. if you dont' want to add dead shrimp add some fish food. if over feeding causes nitrates to rise in a cycled tank it'll work in an uncycled tank.
i'd leave the skimmer off. maybe add more uncured lr instead of live fish. but that's me, i hate to see a fish (even a damsels) die or be stressed.
glad to hear you're not in a hurry.
 

sgt__york

Member
Pansy! lol (joking)
If we were to care THAT MUCH to never even "stress" a fish - they should be left in the reef's in the wild, and never stressed to be caught in the first place.
Never made to leave their family and friends. Never made to be confined to a closed system, unable to be free and wild.
Fact is tho, many fish in captivity can have longer life spans than in the wild due to the protectivity of predators. Forgive me if i don't have an animal are people too mentality - but i believe that no fish or animal should be tortured or purposefully killed without purpose.
Damsels are 'known' to be able to have a HIGH probability of withstanding the extremes of a moderate cycle (ie, 1 fish per 10 gal of tank). About the SAME probbility of any other fish enduring the stress of being caught at a LFS and transported in a small bag that they generally heavily toxicate due to their stressed state and THEN be forced to acclimate to a different environment with different water parameters.
BUT everyone that owns a fish has done this. STressed their fish just to bring them home. To bring nature closer to our home so that we can admire, care for, respect and LEARN from it.
Damsels are no different. I thoroughly enjoyed my damsels while i had them. I picked them out carefully, and will be returning these to the LFS bigger, plumper and in better health than when I got em.
Sorry, I can't feel bad for cycling with damsels. I will not feel bad for the brine shrimp fed to other fish utilizing natures foodchain heirachy. I WILL feel bad for the fish I may lose in my mistakes to create and upkeep my tank - as we have all lost a fish if we've been in the hobby long - but we live/learn and move on responsibly. We've not endangered the fish any more than in its predator home of nature's wild.
Dead shrimp, imho, are for the PANSIES! Too lazy (or too smart) to have memories of going thru the damsel chase. The whole idea of having an aquarium is to enjoy it, and bring nature in closer to your home. Why start with a 'dead' shrimp? I PREFER the damsel and am glad there is a hearty fish to start the journey with that has such variety and color to enjoy.
Just my thoughts on the matter of using live fish to cycle a tank and feeling bad about it.
 

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
as much fun as i see you're having Sgt, i cant stand to miss out. Ill be getting a few more damsels soon, let the chase begin!!!!!!!
 

sgt__york

Member
LOL... life is serious enough.. gotta joke and have fun when you can.. and laugh at what you can :)
Just a little warning with damsels tho... they are aggressive and after a few days of exploring the new environment and establishing their pecking order -- they very well may likely begin to single one fish out to harass.
You need to watch this - and be prepared to isolate and remove the one that gets picked on. He will not be hard to catch - as he will likely get harrassed to the point of WANTING OUT! In order to stay away and acknowledge the tank as another damsel's territory, he will likely hide in a corner of the tank or behind a powerhead. You need to have a refugium ready to get him out, let him settle down and ensure his health before returninng him to the LFS. You can use your sump are for this as well - "AS LONG AS" there is no danger of him getting sucked into a powerhead. As something temporary, You can also use a learge clear bag (like u carry larger fish home in) - fill it with your tank water and clip it to your top it doesn't just float around. This gives him the protection he needs. Don't forget to feed him tho - and change his water every 2-3 days as you won't have the circulation in the bag as the tank. Instead of a bag, you can also use a jug of some kind (1 gal ice cream container; milk jug; gatorde; etc) drill a ZILLION holes in it - the more the better - and put him in there. The holes help the tank water moving in/out - but give him the protection.
Basically, just know their behavior patterns. Being aggressive, they will fight. If it gets out of control, and one begins to get unable to hold his own - give him a helping hand by giving him his own space.
ALSO - because you know they are temporary and hard to get out - don't spend tons of time arranging your rock - as you will likely have to move it OR remove it to catch the little buggers.
Damsels, altho aggressive, in MY opinion, are beautiful fish. Since you are getting 5 - try to get as many variety as possible - might help a 'little'with the infighting. The yellow tailed is very aggressive (i'd make him the SMALLEST one). The Domino gets more aggressive the larger he gets, the juviniles don't always give you as much problems. The stripped domino - i just don't know. Everyone i've had or seen in others tanks seems different. Btw, this is the one being so illusive to me - seems more skittish than the others.
They offer a lot of color - and most important are cheap and HEARTY - so "IF" you are cycling they give you the best chance at not losing a fish (which is the whole point). I'm returning my damsels bigger, plumper and in better health than when i got them. SEe, i'm so mean to my damsels, i feed em good :) lol
Have fun - watch your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels daily so you can catch that spike if you get one. If you are going to add any more live rock - given your stable now and going to cycle anyways -- go ahead and throw your live rock in as well. Make sure you cycle it good and get that filter media established.
Good luck in your cycling - and enjoy your fish - no matter WHAT you have.
 

david s

Member
myself i wouldnt own a damsel. nasty little fish imo i am no green peace animal lover but i wouldnt put a fish in my tank i dont plan to keep if i were you i would get that nasty little critter out of there put all your rock in test your water in a week if you still got zero then put your first few small fish you want in and you will be ahead of the game with alot less headaches lol :rolleyes:
 

david s

Member
one more thing i left out put all your rock in and a fair amount of flake food enuff that would cause a small spike in a established tank then test in a week
 

wamp

Active Member
If you did not smell your rock, it was probably cured. Unless it was dead rock with no purple or any other growth for that matter.
I would not worry about adding more damsels. Your tank will cycle slowly even without it. If your feeding the tank, you have waste which will be broken down. You seem to be patient so, I would let the damsel be, add your display fish SLOWLY and run with it. Add one at a tjime and your tank will adjust. Before you add the first fish after the damsel, I would let the tank setup for a month or so and make sure your levels are normal before doing so.
Good Luck
 

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
no the rock has purple coraline on it, its not dead. About to test the water again, this is day 6 after its being added. I want a pair of clowns. Could i put 2 clowns in at once, and take the damsel out???
I would really like 2 maroons, do people pair maroons like they do perculas???
 
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