Stop ordering livestock during crazy weather

[socalnano24]

Everytime I see a post about someones order arriving dead because it froze it pisses me off. The poster always blames fed ex or ups or wherever the order came from.
Stop, pull your head out of your _ _ _ and don't order things when there's a chance its going to freeze on the way to your house. Who cares if its insured and they'll send you another one.

I think its irresposible as a hobbyist to tempt ordering things online when you know its freezing in most of the country through which the order is gonna go through on the way to your door. The blame should be placed on the orderer, not the shipping company. Just be patient or buy from your LFS during the winter months. [ or if you do order, don't complain and realize its your own fault]
Sorry, felt like ranting......

 

[jackri]

+1

 

[btldreef]

Could not agree more!

 

[nissan577]

i agree 1 million times!!!!

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by SocalNano24
http:///forum/post/3214358
Everytime I see a post about someones order arriving dead because it froze it pisses me off. The poster always blames fed ex or ups or wherever the order came from.
Stop, pull your head out of your _ _ _ and don't order things when there's a chance its going to freeze on the way to your house. Who cares if its insured and they'll send you another one.

I think its irresposible as a hobbyist to tempt ordering things online when you know its freezing in most of the country through which the order is gonna go through on the way to your door. The blame should be placed on the orderer, not the shipping company. Just be patient or buy from your LFS during the winter months. [ or if you do order, don't complain and realize its your own fault]
Sorry, felt like ranting......

I live north and it gets plenty cold, sub zero weather... I order on line all through the winter months. I never lost a thing due to bad weather. SWF will not send an order if a winter advisory is out on severe cold.
I make sure I am right at the door to get my order as soon as it arrives. The little heat packs are still warm when I get it. SWF would be out of business if they only made money in warm weather months.

 

[socalnano24]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3214706

I live north and it gets plenty cold, sub zero weather... I order on line all through the winter months. I never lost a thing due to bad weather. SWF will not send an order if a winter advisory is out on severe cold.
I make sure I am right at the door to get my order as soon as it arrives. The little heat packs are still warm when I get it. SWF would be out of business if they only made money in warm weather months.
Well ok, maybe I overgeneralized and all winter is a bit extreme, I have no qualms against SWF. I just find it sad that you hear SOOOO many stories about dead fish on arrival regardless of the vendor it came from. Maybe there should be limits on distances during certain months, I dunno?

 

[luvmyreef]

Well, if you are referring to one of my posts from a couple weeks ago about my livestock arriving dead you need some info. First, I order from a company that is 8 hrs or less from my home. Second, livestock usually arrives alive in a very timely manner, within 12-15 hours. Third, with this last order it was fed ex's fault completely. They held my package 3 1/2 hrs from my home for 12 additional hours w/o explanation. I had every right to blame them. So, before you bash someones posts, you need all the facts....

 

[browniebuck]

Originally Posted by SocalNano24
http:///forum/post/3214358
I think its irresposible as a hobbyist to tempt ordering things online when you know its freezing in most of the country through which the order is gonna go through on the way to your door. The blame should be placed on the orderer, not the shipping company. Just be patient or buy from your LFS during the winter months. [ or if you do order, don't complain and realize its your own fault]
Just being a devils advocate here...but my LFS is LOCAL to me, so for a fish to get there...it has to go through the same weather as it would in order to get to me. To get the fish sent to my door, rather than my LFS's door...I am eliminating at least one acclimation, which I think is better for my livestock (especially when you never really know how long a fish has been at the LFS...could be a day, could be a week, who knows...do you want to acclimate a fish that has just been acclimated a couple days before?) Also...the LFS that I use most often now (my favorite closed due to low sales...

as he was SW only...not much in the way of food or equipment) has no guarantee on their saltwater livestock (which most online retailers do).
While I completely understand your concerns...basically, in order for your concerns to be alleviated, all LFS's in cold climates would, more or less, have to either close down for the winter (when they do the most business) or have HUGE orders at the end of the Summer and/or Fall to "tide them over" until the Spring. (again...I understand what you are saying...but don't see a way around it)

 

[socalnano24]

Originally Posted by luvmyreef
http:///forum/post/3214912
Well, if you are referring to one of my posts from a couple weeks ago about my livestock arriving dead you need some info. First, I order from a company that is 8 hrs or less from my home. Second, livestock usually arrives alive in a very timely manner, within 12-15 hours. Third, with this last order it was fed ex's fault completely. They held my package 3 1/2 hrs from my home for 12 additional hours w/o explanation. I had every right to blame them. So, before you bash someones posts, you need all the facts....
Your post was one of many I've read over the last few months. I purposely didn't reply in your post because i wasn't trying to single anyone out, it was more or less just something that has been a frustrating trend to keep reading about on different posts. (Sorry if my first post was a little harsh). I guess its just a very obvious sign of how many fish and coral die in general in our hobby in order for the end result to get to us regardless of which way it comes.

 

[luvmyreef]

Well, that is why I responded to your thread. I just wanted to give all the info that I did not in my own. And to say that I am not an irresponsible hobbyist because I order in the winter. Thats why I order close to home in the winter, and the seller uses lots of heat packs. And trust me, it made me sick to see that my package was being held up and knowing it would lead to the death of my coral. Let's just say, be glad you were not the fed ex representative that answered the phone every hour on the hour that I called to find out why and give them hell! My local pet store is WORTHLESS when it comes to coral. Their tank is full of cyano and all coral looks half dead! I have no choice but to order elsewhere, atleast I found a close place.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by SocalNano24
http:///forum/post/3215513
Your post was one of many I've read over the last few months. I purposely didn't reply in your post because i wasn't trying to single anyone out, it was more or less just something that has been a frustrating trend to keep reading about on different posts. (Sorry if my first post was a little harsh). I guess its just a very obvious sign of how many fish and coral die in general in our hobby in order for the end result to get to us regardless of which way it comes.

You know back in the day...I am talking quite a few years back. Saltwater tanks were only a rich man’s hobby, the critters; if they lived a month was unusual. The knowledge of live rock/sand and skimmers didn't exist. Power heads were unknown. In fact saltwater critters were doomed and they were busting up the natural reef to get the stuff doomed to die.
The hobby has improved by leaps and bounds. We now know how to keep a reef tank alive for years and we are growing the coral instead of killing the reef (it sill happens but not as bad) and always going with wild caught fish.
So a few DOA from the mail in winter is nothing to get all out of sorts about. Things are improving at a fantastic rate. Those little heat packs are just one way shipping in the winter has improved.
While it is always sad when anything dies, ordering in the winter is really not the cause. Actually too much heat, like in the summer time is just as deadly, and harder to regulate, since it is easier to heat something up than cool it down in shipping.
SWF.com will not send an order, if it is too hot or too cold.

 

[jimmyr1rider]

I am a newbie on here and in the hobby... but not in life experience. I with my job as a NYC firefighter deal with people at every stage in their life from the best theyve been to the worst theyve been. As well as I am a veteran. I never post on any forum I've ever belonged to until I had a while to stew it over on exactly how to get my point across the most respectful way. This hobby by far is the most "gentlemenly" thing I've been involved in in years, but even at work when people blame us for things that were out of our control we dont ever get upset to the point that we hammer then about what they say. We keep in mind the person just lost big- whether it be just their property or family members in that same fire and will vent and place blame.
Those words are just what they believe. If someone lost livestock in a delivery that took an extra 12 hours than it usually does and that same order was the first one that went like that well- I think I'd be blaming the shipping company as well, and would have every right to. The only order I ever did online was my mated pair of true perculas. Came from Cali to NY. Was 30 degrees here but they arrived perfectly fine- the place I ordered from packaged them extremely well, but if UPS had missed the delivery and they spent the night on the truck they would have froze. At that point since I was waiting at the door on the delivery day ALL DAY with notes for them to knock loudly because of what was in the box, I would have blamed them too. But all went well and theyre doing great and I wasnt about to wait an extra 3 months to get a pair of clowns. Sorry to blab my stupid thoughts but just wanted to chime in.

 

[noah's nemo]

Originally Posted by browniebuck
http:///forum/post/3214989
Just being a devils advocate here...but my LFS is LOCAL to me, so for a fish to get there...it has to go through the same weather as it would in order to get to me. To get the fish sent to my door, rather than my LFS's door...I am eliminating at least one acclimation, which I think is better for my livestock (especially when you never really know how long a fish has been at the LFS...could be a day, could be a week, who knows...do you want to acclimate a fish that has just been acclimated a couple days before?) Also...the LFS that I use most often now (my favorite closed due to low sales...

as he was SW only...not much in the way of food or equipment) has no guarantee on their saltwater livestock (which most online retailers do).
While I completely understand your concerns...basically, in order for your concerns to be alleviated, all LFS's in cold climates would, more or less, have to either close down for the winter (when they do the most business) or have HUGE orders at the end of the Summer and/or Fall to "tide them over" until the Spring. (again...I understand what you are saying...but don't see a way around it)
My thoughts exactly....I do know however,that my LFS owner goes to the airport to pick up his shipments.I guess that would help eliminate irresponsible FedEx/UPS drivers

I have never once tried mail-order,I enjoing seeing the fish first and also giving my LFS the buisness

 

[jackri]

My big thing in ordering in the winter time isn't that it's 30 degrees but 10 - 20 below zero on a given day. I don't care how good of a heater the fed ex truck has the storage area of the truck is going to be cold and no matter how well the package is insulated it's questionable getting things alive -- hence why I don't.
Fish stores (most all from what I've seen) get their shipments directly without riding the truck part/most of the day.
That's life in North Dakota though. Used to keep most of the rift raft out.

 

[cranberry]

And a fish riding around in a UPS truck in the middle of summer is a ride in the park? Fish will tolerate extremes of cold better than extremes of heat in such an environment.
You get winter storms and you get summer storms.

 

[noah's nemo]

Very good point cranberry.Right now as we speak ,people in my area are ICE fishing.Not sure of any oceans or lakes that get up 100+,with fishies swimming around,i guess it would kinda be a jacuzzi swim

 

[jimmyr1rider]

Well Jackri then I guess I am an irresponsible hobbyist unlike yourself. Congratulations- should write a book on how we (who place orders during adverse weather conditions) are neglectful. What I was saying is that the heaters were still warm and fish perfectly fine after the trip the clowns made so even if the UPS truck gets cold in the storage area- if packaged well with enough heaters( that were still toasty to the touch upon opening the 2 inch thick styrofoam box will take an overnight in the truck for the water in the package to get to the point of freezing, or cold enough to kill the fish.
And correct me if I'm wrong but when the importers deliver to where the LFS pick up their livestock how do they get there? osmosis? They ride in the back of an 18 wheeler in huge vats correct? or do local fish stores have a secret underground tunnel that the fish get magically transported there in only the purest of water that has been kept at EXACTLY the same temp they were in when caught or bred?

 

[mrdc]

I live in South GA and placed an order to be here last Saturday. Well we had a freaky snowstorm hit and my order was delayed and the water was cold but fortunatley everything survived. I would not have placed the order if I had been up with the upcoming storm. Normally I don't have to worry about weather like that.

 

[jrod4u]

Personally, it is not your money nor my money, people will do what they want regardless, so let them do it. People will always buy online and all the complaining in the world won't bring a dead fish back nor will it deter some from buying. I think no matter the weather, shipping is always a 50/50 on how specimens will arrive. Take a chance and hope for the best.

 

[beth]

I can't think of any excuses for hobbyists not checking the weather before placing a livestock order. There is no place that we don't know what kind of storms, cold, etc. is going to happen several days out, so all you have to do is be a bit conscientious and check out the weather before placing an order.
Also, plan to have someone home to receive your order, or arrange for a direct pickup at the shippers.