sump design for a 110 gal tank?

[tableforglasses]

Hey guys
Does anyone out there have plans or know where I could find design plans for a 110 gal sump system? My tank is drilled in both backside corners and the last 55 gal. tank I had wasn't even drilled much less both corners, I just had an overhang so right now I am at a loss for how to set all of that stuff up and the how to do the waterflow, and I am in the planning stages. Any info you have would be great!
Thanks Sean

 

[oceanjumper]

Sean,
I would recommend you do a search on this BB with keyword sump or so. Or, just go thru the threads and look at the titles and number of replies. You can also see when there is something "attached", a picture or a design. It will give you ideas for sure. Once you have an idea how you would like to have it, I advice you to make a design and post it here. Just like Noobie did yesterday.
If you have a 110 gl tank with two overflow chambers that is already a GREAT start!!
Good luck,
Marc

 

[tableforglasses]

Hey Oceanjumper
I was looking at your page and your sump design, very nice detail, it has been a great help so far. I have looked at a lot of posts and have looked at designs all over the web, I have some good ideas. I think I want to build a sump and a refugium kind of like what you did, so what I am trying to figure out is with the two overflow chambers do I use both of them as overflow into the sump and then pump it back up with a overhang airline (not sure if that is technical name) because I am just figuring out drilled tanks and I want to do all of the set up ground work before I put the first thing in there! I guess I was thinking one was overflow and the other was for pumping water back in, but if I am understanding you right that is wrong.!? Any info would be great!
Thanks Sean

 

[oceanjumper]

Hey Sean~
Well, you COULD use one of the holes as a back-up connection but I strongly advise against this. You have a large tank (110 gl) and you will need quite some turn-over (>700 gph). For what I have read, most 1" overflows are maxed out at 700. So, do use both chambers as overflow.
Of course I like it you like my design but it has some drawbacks too. What will be the main purpose(s) of your refugium? I really like Mandarins but they will need a lot of pods to eat. Having placed the refugium under the tank does not allow the pods to "fall" into the main tank. In my setup they will "fall" from the refuge into the sump and then pumped back up. Unfortunately, most of these critters will not survive the short visit in the return pump. So, even while I grow pods in refuge, I will not (yet) be able to keep mandarins. If you would like have pods in your main tank, place the refuge at a higher level and allow gravity to take care of the return flow.
Assuming you still want to place your sump under your tank, you could indeed use one of your overflowboxes to feed the refuge, and the other directly to the sump. Of course, the overflow of the refuge also needs to go to the sump. You could place a return pump in both the refuge and sump but it would only complicate matters.
I think it would be easier for you if you connect the two corner overflow boxes into one drain to the sump. One (or two) return pumps will bring the water back. Making a T in (one of the) returnline(s) will allow you to feed the refugium. See also the website of Broomer5. He has posted a design that would be quite suitable for you (IMO):
http://www.broomer.150m.com/BroomersSump_Spraybar.htm
Good luck
Marc

 

[tableforglasses]

alright here it is I took some ideas from broomer and some ideas from oceanjumper and I have come up with this for my refugium/sump (it's a cruddy drawing that I did on microsoft paint, so I apologize in advance) any suggestions or changes would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks Sean

 

[broomer5]

Hi Sean !
Hey - what size drilled overflows does your ( or will your ) 110 gallon tank have ?
What size sump are you planning to use ?
What size fuge are you wanting ?
I don't see a need for the powerhead tee'd into the red pump return line ?
Is your 110 going to be reef, FO or FOWLR ?

 

[tableforglasses]

1. the tank is drilled in both corners and it is a 2'' hole.
2. I am not sure about the sizes, I was thinking about using two 10 gallon tanks fro sump and fuge, not sure if that is big enough or not, but I am open to suggestions.
3. I am not sure about the need for it to be teed, which is why I posted the drawing, so I could get knowledgeable info from people who have already done it, I haven't built anything like this, last 55 gal. tank I had came w/all equipment I needed, so if you think it is not neccesary then that is what I want to hear. Should the red line just pump filtered water into refugium? And if so, do I need to worry about any critters or other things going through the skimmer and the pumps I hear that is not the best?
4.the tank is eventually going to be a reef tank

 

[oceanjumper]

Hi Sean~
A 10 gl refuge is great, a 10 gl sump might be a little small (too small most likely) for a 110 gl tank + 10 gl refuge. Don't forget, in case of power failure the sump needs to hold all the water higher than the overflow holes (from both tank and refuge).
In your design, I would make a chamber (with filterpad) to remove particles from the drain water. In your design this could be on the far right. Water falls in from the top, passes the filter and enters the center chamber via holes in the bottom of the divider (or just leave it open completely). In the center chamber you can place your skimmer. Make another chamber (this one on the left) where your return pumps are located and in this chamber also the return water from the refuge falls in. Use the dividers between the center chamber and the one on the left, and place a foam block so airbubbles from your skimmer will not be introduced in the chamber on the left. If the return-water from the refuge falls gently it won't cause too many bubbles either.
I am not quite sure what you had in mind with the powerhead in your refuge. If it just to provide some circulation in the refuge, cool, but use a small PH. No need to use the PH as a return pump (as your design suggests).
I like two return pumps (as Broomer has). One of them can be T-ed to feed the refuge, the other one can be T-ed back to the sump to control the (total) return flow to your tank. You could also put the latter on a timer to provide some calmer flow during the night when are fish-buddies are going to bed....

 

[broomer5]

Sean,
I think you are well on your way to having a great set-up.
First time I did anything like this as well - so don't feel bad.
Your drawing is good.
With 2" drilled holes - I don't know off hand what size bulkheads that will take - but I'm guessing 1-1/2 or 1"
Are these holes drilled in the back wall or bottom ?
From your drawing - I'm guessing bottom.
Are you planning to run PVC pipe risers up from the bottom to the top normal operating level ? I assume you are.
You can probably go with a pretty good sized return pump - but we'll have to know the bulkhead sizes first, and how you want to run your drainlines.
I agree with OceanJumper on the sump size.
Remember - that we run these sumps about 1/2 full of water.
That leaves your with 5 gallons of water when running - and only 5 gallon capacity for draindown/siphon break.
Not sure of your tank dimensions - but if it's a 110 with dimensions of 48x18x30, we find the square area of the surface
48x18=864 square inches.
Take 864 divided by 231 = 3.75
This means that for every inch of tankwater in the tank, that 1 inch of water equals 3.75 gallons.
Something to be aware of when selecting return pump vs. overflow water flowrates AND the size of the sump.
How much room do you have under the tank for sump ?
LxWxH ???

 

[melbournefl]

From what I've seen in my travels 2" hole = 1" bulkhead. I suggest that when you're shopping for bulkheads, find one that requires exactly a 2" hole, even a little varience can cause great grief, trust someone who has learned the hard way 1.125" DOES NOT equal 1" when it comes to some bulkhead fittings. Also, I suggest that when you do find your bulkheads, make careful note of where you bought them and any other information you might gather, when you need to replace them it's an invaluable timesaver.
Just my .02, probably worth about .01
Later,
Paul

 

[oceanjumper]

Very good point, Paul. Very good point.

 

[tableforglasses]

I actually got a tank that was only used for a couple of months, so the lfs that I bought it from gave me the bulkheads that were already being used so that is covered although I am not sure how to figure out the size?
The holes are drilled in the bottom
I haven't built the stand yet I am going home to my dad's this weekend because he is good w/carpentry, so he and I are giong to build the stand, so hence why I was trying to figure out my sump design. Do you think I should go w/something in the 20 gal. range for the sump?
the tank is 5'x24''x18'
I am going to make some modifications to drawing like oceanjumper suggested and repost it.
thanks again guys for the help

 

[oceanjumper]

Sean~
A 20 gl sump is much better. You don't have to use a glass tank necessarily but it works easier to glue the dividers etc. Around here we have Organized Living. This weekend I noticed they have cool, pretty clear, plastic containers that could perfectly be used for a sump as well.
When you make the stand just have the sump sizes in mind. You need to be able to put it in the stand. You could do this from the top (before the main tank is placed on the stand), or from the front/side. The latter has the advantage you can remove the sump once your main tank is setup (e.g. for cleaning).
Well, you really have to find a proper container first and design the stand around it. Or, you can design the stand and find a proper container/tank for it...... It's up to you bud.

 

[tableforglasses]

well, I measured the hole in the bulkhead and if that is the size which I would pressume it to be, then it is a 1'' bulkhead, so if that helps
also I took oceanjumper's ideas and redesigned my layout, so let me know if you think this looks better and feel free to critique I don't mind changing it again, I want this thing to be perfect.
Thanks again guys

 

[tableforglasses]

oops the blue line should now be a return tank line not fuge line

 

[broomer5]

Sean,
Actually, I like the blue line being a returnline, and just teeing off the red pump for feeding the fuge.
I tweeked your last drawing a little - hope you don't mind.
The very first chamber where the overflow water drains into the sump - you may want to consider allowing a "spillway" at the top.
I removed where the divider would have come up all the way to the top rim of the sump. If for some reason the mechanical filter media would become restricted or clogged up - this spillway will allow excess rising tankwater to "spill" over into the sump - and not flow over on to the stand floor.
This spillway could also be accomlished by drilling some holes in the divider up top, allowing any excess to flow over these holes into chamber two.
Added some ball valves on both returnlines, and one to regulate flow to the fuge too.
I lowered the water level in the display tank and sump - to represent the "normal" operating levels in each.
Also - added in two vertical pvc risers - that extend from the bottom drilled/bulkhead fittings - on up to the normal operating level of the tank. However high you place these risers - will somewhat dictate this normal operating tankwater level when pump(s) are running. The water will actually be a tad higher than I indicated - depending on return pumps chosen. But not much.
When the return pump(s) are OFF - the water level in the tank will adjust to the point where these risers horizontal openings are positioned.
The normal operating level in the sump as I've indicated, allows for draindown in the display tank when the pumps go off.
Your schematic above would be a better indication of what the sump level would look like when these return pumps are OFF.
Looking pretty good Sean

 

[tableforglasses]

hey broomer thanks for the reply and for taking the time to work with my plan, that all looks very good, and makes good sense to me, the only thing that I should have clarified and I think this will change the pvc, the corners are boxed off where the holes and bulkheads will be with a built in overflow so those two chambers are totally seperate (does that make sense), so I don't think I will need the pvc risers, but if I still do please let me know.
Thanks again for the help!
Sean

 

[oceanjumper]

Of course, what slipped Broomers' --normally brilliant-- mind is to lower the left divider
Or, better IMO, leave an opening at the bottom and place the foam block there (not on top). But you need to glue another (very short) divider next to this one, to squeeze the foamblock in between (also make "clogging" precautions in the left divider. I just drilled 2 1" holes on top).
Like this:
|
|
|
|
| XX|
| XX|
XX|
__XX|____________
XX = foam block
| = divider
Have fun making it!

 

[oceanjumper]

Well, the second layer from the bottom needs to be moved to the right a little. Somehow this didn't come thru right. But you got the point I hope...
HTH

 

[broomer5]

Oh yeah
I forgot about the left divider ( actually didn't even see it )
Need to make some alterations there too as Ocean Jumber said.
I wasn't aware that your overflows were as you described tableforglasses.
You would not need the risers at all.
Sorry for the mix up - it was early - and I was still on my first cup of coffee.