Sump Design

noobie

Member
I am going to be starting a 55gal. FOWLR soon. I hope to gradually change it to reef when I'm ready.
I will have 80lbs. of LR and about 100lbs LS.
Here is a diagram of an idea I have for a sump. Please give me your opinions on what I should change or not change.
Also, what kind (gph) of submersible return pump should I have?
 
1

10k

Guest
I would definately shorten the height on the first chamber, where the filter pad is, to keep it from overflowing if it clogs.
Also, you may have a problem getting the skimmer tuned in with it that close to the return lines (from tank). The force of the water coming out of those lines will make an air/water mix, that may introduce too much air into the skimmer, rendering it useless...
Also, invest in a good check valve for the return line, to prevent power outage flooding...
just my .02 though...HTH and Good Luck
 

noobie

Member
Wow I love this site!
10k all of what you mentioned makes perfect sense and I will make the changes. Thank you so much!
 

oceanjumper

Member
Noobie, I see you took my advise and did a great job making the design!
There is not necessarily the need to shorten the height of the first chamber. You might not have the space to do so depending on how the drain is attached to your sump. What I have done -to avoid overflow in case of clogging- is drilling two large holes at the top in the first divider. Normally the water level in the first chamber does not reach these holes, only in case the filters would indeed clog.
I also don't see the need to do anything different with your skimmer. BUT, I don't have a skimmer like yours so I guess I do not see what 10K is referring to. In my view, if you use filter pads (or even bioballs, but I would recommend filter pads if you have already sufficient LR) the water falls nice and gently thru these media eliminating all "force". On the other hand, it doesn't hurt making an airtrap like you have done (twice) on the other side of the sump.
More suggestions:
-Remove the ball valve on the drain. WHy would you need that? To keep a higher water level in tour tank when you turn the power off? I wouldn't do it. One day you forget to open it first and you will regret it....
-Since you still can manipulate your main tank, consider an overflow chamber instead of a bulkhead.
-Make a T on the return line and lead it back to your sump. Currently you have a valve on the return that does nothing but increasing the power/force of the waterflow when you close it. Rather, make a T and put in the valve on the line back to your sump. With opening/closing this valve you can control the flow to your tank. In a later stage you can also use this line to feed a refugium or so.
-Place filter foam in one of the chambers next to your heater.
As a return pump, get a Mag 7 or 9 (I have a CAP 2200, equivalent to a Mag "8"). I would go for the 9 if you will be making a T.
All in all, great start! I wish you very well (and lot's of fun) making all this. Don't hesitate to ask more questions!
Marc
 

noobie

Member
Marc thanks man! Great ideas as well, especially the t-valve on the return, because eventually I'll have somebody that wants that Emperor 400 and then I'll try the refugium idea.
Well I made a couple changes so take a look and see what you think.
 

noobie

Member
Also here is a pic of something similar to what I'll do for an overflow through the back of hole in the tank.
 

oceanjumper

Member
Noobie~ Mostly good revisions though not all (IMO)....
I would keep the first chamber as it was (place it as high as you can even, do not lower it as you did now). Drill holes just under the top of the divider if you are worried about clogging. Though, I have never seen it in any commercial sump or I have never seen the water level rise in my first chamber b/c of clogging of the filters. The way you have it in your second design, the filters will be under the sump water level. That defeats the purpose of the filters somewhat. You want easy access to the filters too, for replacement every 3-4 weeks (I have filterfoam plus filter wool).
If you want to make another airtrap left to the skimmer (I don't think you need this though), make the dividers higher. The way you have it now (with the dividers so short) they are virtually useless. Keep the water flow in mind and I recommend you also draw in your design what eventually the water level in your sump will be. This will force you to think about how the water will flow and improve your understanding. Same applies for the dividers at the right side. You can stick filter foam (not filter wool - no need for eggcrate) between the dividers as an air trap. Normally you "stick" this foam at the bottom of the sump between two dividers (but the divider on the right leaves an opening to the return pump).
The return line should be smaller than 1". I use 5/8 ID (Inner Diameter). 3/4" would work as well. 1" is an overkill. Also, I would recommend using a flexible hose (1") as the drain line (you can buy these at the LFS), and a regular "flexible" tubing line for the return. Some people however prefer PVC. I don't. You can add a check valve to the return line but don't need it necessarily if you have the spray bar above the water level in your main tank. If the spray bar is under the water level it can cause a siphon when there is a power failure. You don't want this! The check valves will avoid "back flow" but the disadvantage of a check valve (IMO) is that water will always be present in the return line. If you like to clean the line (or remove it for whatever reason) make sure you empty it first! I prefer to break the siphon automatically with a little air hole drilled (just under the main tanks water level) at the end of my return. The unit at the end of my return line (not really a spray bar but something similar) I purchased at the LFS.
For the return line I attached a picture that Broomer5 posted when I was building my sump. I copied it and like it very much (I only did not need the tube union, the white thing connected to the Mag. The CAP 2200 pump that I use has a union that allows easy disconnection from the return line).
I personally don't like the picture of the overflow you posted. Imagine this big white bar in your display tank, I find that ugly but the choice is up to you. I would prefer an ******** overflow box or an overflow as I have in my refugium (see my website for a picture).
Okay, that's it for now. I look forward to see if you will use any of my revisions. If my recommended changes have been unclear to you, email me your design (is it a PowerPoint file?) and I will implement them myself for you. My email address is oceanjumper@hotmail.com
Marc
 

noobie

Member
Marc,
I thank you soooo much for being patient with me and taking the time to explain all this to me, especially the stuff you had to tell me twice until I understood it.
I visited your website, and WOW! You said in your opening statement "poor-effort in putting up some pictures of my new hobby". This is a major understatement! Your website alone has helped me to understand alot easier now of how a sump works!
I am going to read a little bit more on this subject then start from scratch and make a new diagram based on how your sump is setup and then maybe I'll email you that diagram for any adjustments/suggestions. It's not Powerpoint though, I just do it all with that with Microsoft Paint, I hope that won't be a problem. If so maybe you could just print it off and draw on it then take a picture of it and send it back.
I have one thing I'm not clear on yet. When the "dirty" water from drain comes down and goes through the skimmer and then comes out "clean", should that clean water be kept seperate from the dirty water from there on or does it matter if they mix a little before entering the return pump? Like in my diagram I have a piece of acrylic I was going to put between the "dirty" and the "clean"........necessary??
Also will this attached pic work for my overflow? The only overflow "boxes" I have seen at my LFS is the kind with the U-Tube siphon over the top of the tank. Is there an overflow box for a drilled tank that would work better than attached pic?
Thanks again Marc
 

oceanjumper

Member
Hey Noobie~
I'm glad the pictures helped. I am familiar with MS Paint so in case necessary it won't be a problem.
Your insight about mixing dirty with clean water is correct. Preferably you should separate the two. In reality however, the skimmer will not be able to clean all the "dirty" water and the majority of the "dirty" water coming thru the drain will bypass the skimmer and be pumped back into the display tank. Nevertheless, the water that has been skimmed can be deposited directly in the chamber of the return pump. You made a good observation that I have not separated the two. This is because I have a hang-on skimmer. I have not taken the time/trouble to revise/redirect the output lines and glue an additional divider in my sump. I might do it one day when I'm bored..... What the additional "cleaniness" will be....? Likely very limited. But, since you start from scratch, incorporate it!
The picture you posted is identical to my refuge overflow (well, mine is black). These are for holes drilled in the back or side of a tank. If your tank has not tempered glass at the bottom, I would recommend making an internal corner overflow box. For examples see: Link to internal overflow boxes/chambers
IMO, an internal overflow box is slightly safer, easier and less visible in your tank. But, all in all, it does not make a huge difference.
Good luck with the design. I'm sure you will do a good job.
Marc
 
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