sump/ refugium questions?

[flipper263]

I am looking at purchasing a sump...but the more I read, the more I am confused. It sounds like a sump is a filter system...but I already have a canister filter that I am very happy with. I was hoping to have a sump/refugium though so I can put my heaters and a skimmer in it and of course grow macro algae and pods (once I figure all that stuff out too)
What I would like to know is if I purchase a sump, can I make part of it into a refugium?
The reason I am asking now...(before I truly understand the whole refugium pods and macro algae stuff) is that I plan to purchase a skimmer and would prefer an in sump to a HOT skimmer if the sump is the way to go for me.
I plan on purchasing the sump because I am very uncertain about DIY...but I would take any suggestions out there or ideas on how to make it all work.
Thanks in advance
flip :jumping:

 

[squidd]

You can build a "Sump/refuge" combo and use your canister filter if your happy with it.
The sump part would be a good place to "hide" your heaters and skimmer and the return pump will add extra circulation in your tank.
The fuge is just a "separate" chamber/tank that Macros/pods grow in and then flows into your sump.
You may find however that as your fuge matures and with the extra water volume and perhaps additional LR, that you may no longer "need" your canister filter for biological filtration.
You may want to keep it around though for running carbon/phosphate remover (chemical filtration) and perhaps filter floss (mechanical filtration) and the additional flow it provides...
Is this a Reef tank or a Fish only...I ask because the filtration required/recommended for each type is slightly different.

 

[flipper263]

Thanks for the reply Squidd, its a reef tank. I guess one of the things I was looking at was what kind of skimmer to get..an HOT or an in sump...thus the questions about the sump and refugium. I think I am going to get the HOT skimmer and hold off on the sump and refugium until I think I am more ready for it.
flip:jumping:

 

[squidd]

Is this for the 29 gal the 120, or some other tank...?
While you may find a HOB skimmer that can handle a 29, there really aren't many (ANY) that can handle a 120 with any authority...In which case your back to running a sump.
You may actually find it more cost effective to get a sump set up and a properly sized skimmer the first time 'round. Rather than getting an inefficient unit now and have to upgrade (shortly) down the line...

 

[cincyreefer]

Originally posted by Squidd
You may actually find it more cost effective to get a sump set up and a properly sized skimmer the first time 'round. Rather than getting an inefficient unit now and have to upgrade (shortly) down the line...
:yes: True that! I don't even want to know the amount of $$ and time I could have saved when I started keeping saltwater tanks if I got the better equipment to start.

 

[roggy23]

hey squid, how do you actually know when you dont need any more biological filteration?? does it show in the tank by algae growth or what:notsure:

 

[squidd]

Excess algae growth is one indicator of excess nutrients in your system...Although "controlled" algae growth (Macros in fuge) will remove excess nutrients from your system and are part of a "natural" filtration system...
Excess nutrients are "removed" when you "harvest" Macros from system...
But starting with the ammonia and nitrites end of the "biological" cycle...Any reading over "0" indicates insufficient biological surface area/bacterial growth...(along with dead and dieing fish)
Additional LR/LS will provide the "surface area" for the bacteria to grow eliminating the need for mechanical media...But there is also the balance of snails, crabs, pods,worms etc... needed to process waste down to the "base elements" that can broken down by aerobic and anaerobic bacteria...
There are also Skimmers and Water Changing for removal/dilution of dissolved organics, which are also an important "part" of the "biological equation"
There are Tons of posts with "guidlines" for setting up a balanced system..."X" ammount of LR/LS per gallon...X inches sand for DSB...These crabs, those snails,this kind of worm,etc..
But the end determination of "when you have 'enough'"comes from the "look" and test results from your tank...

 

[roggy23]

ive had my tank for over 6 months now and i dont get much algae growth and i dont have a sump or refuge, that sounds like a goo dsign right?
all i really get which i clean once a week is the brown stuff that spots on the glass and is tough to scrape off...

 

[squidd]

Well...:thinking:
I should probably mention that there is a second point to your question of " How do you know when you have enough "Biological" filtration ?"...
And that is , That the amount of biological filtration needed is "relative" to the amount of "Bioload" in your tank...
Without seeing your tank, let me just give you an "example"...
You started your tank...sand, rock, water, salt, etc...went through a "cycle"...started adding fish...you got a canister filter, standard lighting and an inexpensive Skimmer....
Here you are 6 months later and every thing is going good...no "algae" to speak of fish are fine and water params are good...At "This Point" you have "Enough" biological filtration to match your "Bioload"
But...Let's say you have 6 fish in there...you bought them small maybe 1 1/2"-2" maybe 3"...You feed them "X" amount and they produce "X" amount of waste...That's your "Bioload"...It matches your filtration and every things fine...
"IF" you were to do/add nothing else...and keep the tank running another 6 months to a year...Those fish will "grow"...pretty soon your feeding them 2 times "X" or 3 times"X" and they are producing 3 times "X" the waste...(Your "Bioload" has increased)
Will your filtration be able to keep up...?
Or lets say you want to add another fish or two...or a couple of corals...and of course you "up grade" your lighting to MH or some such...
"Boom" That's when it's gonna bite you...the "extra" nutrients and the "extra" lighting will produce copious amounts of algae...UNLESS you have increased/up graded your "Biological" filtration level to match your "Bioload" level...
HTH

 

[roggy23]

awesome squid thanks,
ok so what do i do then, how do i increase my biological filtration level to macth my increased bioload at that time?

 

[squidd]

Depends on what your starting with ...But in general...
More water volume/circulation (a sump would help here)
More Live rock/live Sand (in the main tank or a refugium)
Refugium to grow macro algae (excess nutrients removed when you "harvest" macros)
A Bigger Better skimmer (removes disolved organics before they need to be broken down/removed)
Maintaing a low fish load (hard) light feeding (can be hard)
Cleaning mechanical filtration often to remove detrius/food before it breaks down
Adding a "wet/dry" (increases water volume, adds surface area)
Maintaining a good water change schedual (removes nutrients adds trace elements)
All or some or some combination of the above will help in maintaining a healthy enviroment for your inhabitants...

 

[roggy23]

is there a correlation between algae growth and bio filtration? more LR + LS = less algae??? is that safe to say?

 

[squidd]

It's "safer" to say less nutrient input + more excess nutrient export = less algae...
More LR+LS = ability to support higher bioload...but, higher bioload generally = more nutrients and the excess = algae "food"
Good filtration "system" will remove excess nutrients = starving algae = cleaner healthier tank...

 

[roggy23]

gotcha, you da man! :happy: