sump setup questions

[lazzybunch]

I will be setting up a 125 aga with 2 built-in overflows soon. My 55g dosen't have an overflow so I am new to sumps/refugiums and have a few questions. I plan on using a couple of Rubbermaid type containers. I don't plan on using a wet/dry, but plan on using a skimmer later on. Do I need to have "baffles" in the sump? Do I just let the water drain in? I'm not sure about my return pump size either. I was thinking about a Mag-12 but I have 1" bulkheads on the overflows and recently read that they flow up to 700gph. The bulkheads on the returns are 3/4", I think. Would I be better off going with say 2 Mag-7's? I plan to tap the return to feed the fuge. Should I put ball valves on the overflows as well as the returns? Are check valves needed on the returns, or are the holes drilled to break the siphon good enough?
Sorry about the long post. Lots of questions.
Thanks

 

[jond]

I have a 128 gal. w/ two 1 inch overflows and I run two Mag 9.5's. One is teed off with a ball vavle to feed my refugium side of my sump. They handle the flow just fine, and I think they could handle more.
The issues are noise and turbulance in your sump from the water coming in. I have an Oceanic and I had to do the durso stand pipe modificatin to quiet the overflow box. I then had to install a couple of baffles to help slow the turbulant water from the overflows. I still get some microbubbles in the returns when I run both pumps.
I have one on a timer and have it go off at night.
I would definately feed your refugium off your return line rater than your overflow. The overflows are something you do not want to restrict flow on. No vavles, sharp bends, etc. The siphon break on the returns is good enough if done right, but you can always use check valves as a back-up.
Good luck.

 

[melbournefl]

Here's the article Broomer wrote on building a sump/refugium using the Rubbermaid containers. In the "Gallery" section of the site there are pictures of Broomer's sump and also the one I built.
http://www.villagebistro.info/Article2003010201-1.htm
HTH
Later,
Paul

 

[mykgillespie]

Hello Lazzybunch,
I'd recommend running a T off of one of the drains to feed your refugium. Place a valve on the pipe going to your refugium and one to the sump. The only reason for the valve to the sump is to back it off slightly to allow pressure to the refugium. Ofcourse, this depends on how your set up is, you may not need a valve to the sump at all to allow pressure for your refugium and that is better. Make sure not to allow too much flow through your refugium slow calm flow is best for the flora and fauna in the fuge to have time to utilize the organics that make it down to them. Feeding the fuge from the drain will provide more organics for your critters and any macros that you might grow and these in turn can go back to the display as food. Feeding from your return will be sending basically clean water to your refugium with little benefit to the organisms growing/living there.
The holes drilled in the return standpipe elbows should be fine, but be sure to keep them very clean as debris, calcium,ETC. build up there can clog the hole and will not break the siphon in the event of a power outage or pump failure. You can also keep the output nozzles close to the surface and slightly downturned to break the siphon as well, but you'll get more surface turbulence this way. My experiences with check valves has been that the only ones that really work will put a lot of strain on your pump and are usually not worth the trouble.
Hope this is helpful to you, and for a diagram of the fuge/sump plumbing try www.inlandreef.com they might still have the diagram on that site. I'm sorry I forgot the location of that diagram so you might have to look around a little.
Good Luck,
Myk.

 

[mykgillespie]

I just checked the site, fuge/sump diagram is under the Guides and DIY section.
Myk.

 

[lazzybunch]

Thanks for the replys.
Scott

 

[zafirablanca]

Also, check out the 'hardware', 'sump config' page on this site:
http://www.rl180reef.com/frames.htm
Good Luck,
-Christine

 

[broomer5]

I prefer to send feedwater to refugium from the return pump as well.
I don't like restricting a display tank drain with anything at all.
If you steal some of the return pump's by teeing off the return line, you'll have all the pressure you'll need to feed the fuge.
The water quality from the sump is basically the same as the water quality from the display tank.
There's no measurable difference between the two - in my opinion, they are near identical for all practical purposes.
In other words - a single pass through the sump filtration does not necessarily "clean" the water to a point where it is not suitable for refugium use. This is my opinon.
Either way will work.
You can tee into the drainline if you like.
You can tee into the return line if you like.
Teeing into the return line is a safer, more secure way to go, and will not disturb the gravity draining display.
Different strokes for different folks.

 

[mykgillespie]

I must agree, either way will certainly work. The best thing about this hobby is that there are many ways to accomplish the same goal and to accomplish it correctly. The main reason why I plumb to the refugium from the drain on most of my clients tanks is because we don't use Mech. filtration. This allows us to use the refugium as a sort of settling tank as well where solid waste and particulants can be utilized by the filter feeders, hermits, and critters before the skimmer can pick it up. We just tend to see faster production of life in the sand bed this way where the food web seems to recycle more and the critters in turn help to feed the display. Although, that's not to say that we haven't designed systems that feed the refugium via the return pump without success either. We've used this method in reef systems on a few occasions, but mostly for a more specific purpose. We use the pump feed to the refugium for Phosphate removal where the main focus of the fuge will be to grow macros and the macros can then be pulled and used to feed the grazers in the tank. We also use this method for our Freshwater clients where we use a Plant Filter or I guess "Refugium" to grow plants to assimilate Phosphates and reduce Nitrates as the live plants prefer to get their N from ammonia therefore cutting the rest of the Nitrogen cycle out of the equasion, though the plants will use NO3 as well.
Plumbing from the return may also be safer, but so far we haven't had any problems. Just remember that when plumbing from the drain (Or either way for that matter.) that the flow through the fuge should be slow and in the infrequent event that it is necessary to use a valve to get the slight pressure needed to run the fuge the water should never be backed off by much at all just enough to get about 1 or 2 cycles per hour through the fuge. If backing off the drain side of the T is necessary than you'll want to leave the fuge wide open and any resriction to the drain side will just go through the fuge. Also keep in mind where the majority of you're circulation will be coming from. If you're planning to do most of your circulation inside the tank then you can certainly slow the flow through your filtration system and get more effective filtration per volume pass through it and drain concerns and noise is a little less important. On the other hand, if the majority of circulation is going to be from the return pump, then safety will come into play more so as you will now need to try to get as much flow through the filter system as possible. So again there are certainly many ways of doing things and each one is another way to make the hobby more interesting as you experiment with each. I look forward to seeing more replies and learning more from others. I love this hobby!
Myk.