Sump vs Canister filter?!

jayjay5531

jayjay5531

Member
I'm hoping to have a 36 gallon FOWLR with 40 pounds of LR, sand, and a few "nano" fish like clowns or cardinals or firefish maybe. Maybe one day I'll have a reef aquarium, although I'm guessing 36 is way to small to maintain a stable reef environment.
Anyway, I'm a hardcore FW aquarist and only recently started looking in to SW. FW people don't often have sumps, unless they have huge tanks and want more space to put HOB filters, or they are very concerned about aesthetics and don't want any visible heating or filtration equipment in the tank (and probably there's other reasons too but the bottom line is I never even looked into sumps because they're not super popular). For big tanks I've always used canister filters and had no problems - with filter floss and bio-media. (Another difference between FW and SW: it seems that FW people are mostly advocating against the use of carbon and zeolite with the claim that it does its job for a couple days before leaching the chemicals back into the water. On the other hand, I have only ever heard from SW people that activated carbon is a good thing. Maybe the high concentrations of TDS in SW prevents the chemicals from leaching back into the water? I don't really know, but I'm getting off track now, anyways...)
But apparently SW people are all about sumps. I don't even know how to set one up, or what the objective is, or anything. Apparently people drill holes in the corner of their tank (not an option for me because my tank is glass).
Anyways I have a canister filter that I love, can I just use this or is it worse/better than a sump?
Also, it occurs to me that protein skimmers can go in sumps...is this a major reason why SW people have sump setups?
Sorry for rambling, it's late...
Thanks for your help!
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay5531 http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3519431
I'm hoping to have a 36 gallon FOWLR with 40 pounds of LR, sand, and a few "nano" fish like clowns or cardinals or firefish maybe. Maybe one day I'll have a reef aquarium, although I'm guessing 36 is way to small to maintain a stable reef environment.
Anyway, I'm a hardcore FW aquarist and only recently started looking in to SW. FW people don't often have sumps, unless they have huge tanks and want more space to put HOB filters, or they are very concerned about aesthetics and don't want any visible heating or filtration equipment in the tank (and probably there's other reasons too but the bottom line is I never even looked into sumps because they're not super popular). For big tanks I've always used canister filters and had no problems - with filter floss and bio-media. (Another difference between FW and SW: it seems that FW people are mostly advocating against the use of carbon and zeolite with the claim that it does its job for a couple days before leaching the chemicals back into the water. On the other hand, I have only ever heard from SW people that activated carbon is a good thing. Maybe the high concentrations of TDS in SW prevents the chemicals from leaching back into the water? I don't really know, but I'm getting off track now, anyways...)
But apparently SW people are all about sumps. I don't even know how to set one up, or what the objective is, or anything. Apparently people drill holes in the corner of their tank (not an option for me because my tank is glass).
Anyways I have a canister filter that I love, can I just use this or is it worse/better than a sump?
Also, it occurs to me that protein skimmers can go in sumps...is this a major reason why SW people have sump setups?
Sorry for rambling, it's late...
Thanks for your help!
Hi, Welcome to the site!
I ran my 90g on canister filters for years with no problems whatsoever. A sump is easier to maintain, and it adds extra water volume. Not to mention a place to hide all of the equipment.
I have always used glass tanks as well. If the tank is not tempered glass it can be drilled...personally if a glass tank didn't come reef ready (already drilled) I wouldn't chance drilling it myself. I have a sump on my 90g now. I love the sump, but the overflow box is a big issue, the lifter pump is always clogging up. I found that in sump skimmers are better made, and do a better job as well. I have not found to date, a HOB skimmer I like.
If you love your canister, and always remember to swap out the media after a few weeks or at most each month...it's perfectly fine to keep using it.
So to conclude my rambling....If you are purchasing a new tank, get it predrilled and go sump....if you already have a glass tank not drilled, stay with your canister unless you are positive it isn't tempered glass and can drill it. I wouldn't go with a sump using a CPR overflow with a lifter pump, or a U tube type overflow, they are too big of a pain in the neck.
Oh and sumps are very easy to set up, and the folks on this site can walk you through step by step.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I wouldnt have a tank without a sump. There are many problems with canister fters that Flowr has not mentioned.
If you have a glass tank- the only panel that should be tempered is the bottom glass. Glass can be easily drilled with an $11 drill bit. Or, you cN purchase the whole overflow kit and all from glass holes for cheap. Thats what i have on my tank now.
In-sump skimmers definitely are better made. A sump also allows you to hide equipment and increase your water volume. Two important things! Something else that i recommend for any system is macroalgae/ refugium built into your sump. Much more success over time with that then anything else.
Good luck and keep us posted!
 
fst4wrd

fst4wrd

Member
I am also a hardcore FW guy and just started with SW, from research it seems sump, protien skimmer, etc.. is the way to go. But as far as reasoning the whys and hows, I have had a hard time finding the answers.
I choose to take baby steps and stick with what I know and went with 2 canisters for my 180SW. Im sure down the road I will learn the benefits of a sump and skimmer and possibly convert but for now, the SW world is all new to me and to have 1 thing that I atleast know about be apart of it for awhile just helps ease the new experience worries.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FsT4WrD http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3519473
I am also a hardcore FW guy and just started with SW, from research it seems sump, protien skimmer, etc.. is the way to go. But as far as reasoning the whys and hows, I have had a hard time finding the answers.
I choose to take baby steps and stick with what I know and went with 2 canisters for my 180SW. Im sure down the road I will learn the benefits of a sump and skimmer and possibly convert but for now, the SW world is all new to me and to have 1 thing that I atleast know about be apart of it for awhile just helps ease the new experience worries.
If were not for Acrylic51, I would have never tried a sump system, but now that I have...it really is the very best filter system to have. My only complaint is that the lifter pumps fail on the CPR overflows. A drilled tank would make that kind of problem non-existent. So if you can drill your tank, go sump.
The only concern anyone has about canisters is that they no longer do as intended if you don't keep up on the maintenance. A canister filter runs silent, and it's out of sight out of mind for some folks, so the media isn't swapped out as it should be.
The only other concern is if the power goes out for longer then 24 hours, the water inside the canister goes bad, and is dumped into the tank poisoning everything when the power is restored. Unplugging the canister during a power outage takes care of that problem.
You can use your canister, it won't hurt a thing to do so...but I really think you would be more satisfied with a sump system...you can't beat the benefits of a refugium. The macroalgae will keep the tank clear of phosphates and nitrates...our biggest enemy when keeping SW tanks.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Yes you can use your old canister filter for your fish only tank. Nothing wrong with that at all. I did the same thing with my old equipment when I made the move to SW. No protien skimmer, just water changes and maintenance. Reef keeping, you're probably going to want a sump, skimmer and all that jazz.
 
fst4wrd

fst4wrd

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3519481
Yes you can use your old canister filter for your fish only tank. Nothing wrong with that at all. I did the same thing with my old equipment when I made the move to SW. No protien skimmer, just water changes and maintenance. Reef keeping, you're probably going to want a sump, skimmer and all that jazz.
TY for the stress releaf, was told I need a skimmer since I have a puffer. When I was quoted for my set up I said I wanted everything that was needed to be worry free and successfull with a SW tank, then was told a protien skimmer was needed after the fact. Ive been pulling out my hair figuring out how to add one, only left 4in behind my tank and have shelving units on the sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3519479
If were not for Acrylic51, I would have never tried a sump system, but now that I have...it really is the very best filter system to have. My only complaint is that the lifter pumps fail on the CPR overflows. A drilled tank would make that kind of problem non-existent. So if you can drill your tank, go sump.
The only concern anyone has about canisters is that they no longer do as intended if you don't keep up on the maintenance. A canister filter runs silent, and it's out of sight out of mind for some folks, so the media isn't swapped out as it should be.
The only other concern is if the power goes out for longer then 24 hours, the water inside the canister goes bad, and is dumped into the tank poisoning everything when the power is restored. Unplugging the canister during a power outage takes care of that problem.
You can use your canister, it won't hurt a thing to do so...but I really think you would be more satisfied with a sump system...you can't beat the benefits of a refugium. The macroalgae will keep the tank clear of phosphates and nitrates...our biggest enemy when keeping SW tanks.
Im liking that TY, maintenance is key if you cant do it or are not consistant, buy a lizard. Love the maintenance, its my zen moment of the day.
24 hrs without power we would have to worry about dieing our selves let alone the fish here in vegas.
 
jay0705

jay0705

Well-Known Member
Skimmers r interesting. I've never used one and have never had an issue. When i upgrade my tank I'll prob get one just due to the size. 150 gal. But in my 75 i just use a hob filter
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FsT4WrD http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3519492
TY for the stress releaf, was told I need a skimmer since I have a puffer. When I was quoted for my set up I said I wanted everything that was needed to be worry free and successfull with a SW tank, then was told a protien skimmer was needed after the fact. Ive been pulling out my hair figuring out how to add one, only left 4in behind my tank and have shelving units on the sides.
Worry free?

Not going to say that a skimmer wouldn't be beneficial for you. I've seen puffers eat and they are messy fish. Skimmers help clear up some of the waste and bolster oxygen levels in the tank. 36g tank is not very big for most puffers.
 
vdtank

vdtank

Member
Hello,
Well its been month since i stared my first saltwater tank 40 Gallon Tank , 40 lbs live rock, 40 Ibs live sand using a canister filter along with hang protein skimmer and so far pretty good. Right now it be only a fish only but will upgrade to a bigger tank as soon as my Tang and dwarf Angel fish grow it out. I have look into having a sump but look too complicated plus like i mention right now the canister with a protein skimmer is working good.
It even appear my live rock getting so purple coral and red coral coming out my rock. Oh also worm coming out my rock but as soon as i see then floating around my fish's ending up eating it up... So for right now I'm sticking with a Canister Filter
 
S

saxman

Guest
Glad your tank is doing well!
FWIW, my first SW setup (FO, no LR) was run with a canister for a few years, but once I went to sumps, I wondered why on earth I didn't do it in the first place. Of course, that was about 20 years ago when I found "the way, the truth, and the light" (LR and sumps).
They really aren't very complicated at all, and once you set it up, there's actually less work to do.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3520917
Glad your tank is doing well!
FWIW, my first SW setup (FO, no LR) was run with a canister for a few years, but once I went to sumps, I wondered why on earth I didn't do it in the first place. Of course, that was about 20 years ago when I found "the way, the truth, and the light" (LR and sumps).
They really aren't very complicated at all, and once you set it up, there's actually less work to do.
+100 on that. I was afraid of sumps, they looked complicated. I used canister filters for 8 years. Then acrylic51 offered to build me a sump because I was having issues with nitrates, everyone joined in, and it became an awesome group project. Once I found out how to set it up, I was guided step by step, it wasn't complicated at all. I also kicked myself for not going with a sump long ago.
Folks here will walk you each step of the way...sumps are awesome, and much easier to do then they look!
 
vdtank

vdtank

Member
Well thank you. I'm very glad all my work and research is paying off now. The only thing i hate about my tank before i started was to go bigger at least to meet the Blue hippo tang requirement but i got time until then right is only about 2" I just got him couple of days ago.
Now about having sump I guest right now because I'm SO new to SW about ( 1 month in to it) Its just easier right now just to deal with canister plus this is first canister as well. At lease for now. That why also it be only (FO and LR)
But you say its easier to take care a sump huh.... Well of course once i upgrade to a bigger tank i will serially look into a sump. My first concern having all this equipment and water down below does make a lot water noise or the pump making a lot of noise as well? sorry for this question I'm new. Thank You.
 
vdtank

vdtank

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3520918
+100 on that. I was afraid of sumps, they looked complicated. I used canister filters for 8 years. Then acrylic51 offered to build me a sump because I was having issues with nitrates, everyone joined in, and it became an awesome group project. Once I found out how to set it up, I was guided step by step, it wasn't complicated at all. I also kicked myself for not going with a sump long ago.
Folks here will walk you each step of the way...sumps are awesome, and much easier to do then they look!
Well I'm really glad to hear I'll get some Help here with you guys because I know i cant ask my local fish store because I'm not buying equipment from this store Its so more expensive. The only thing i buy is from this store is salt water
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDtank http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3520922
Well I'm really glad to hear I'll get some Help here with you guys because I know i cant ask my local fish store because I'm not buying equipment from this store Its so more expensive. The only thing i buy is from this store is salt water
I wouldn't purchase saltwater from a LFS either, unless it was an emergency. RO water from a grocery store, and a bucket of salt mix...much, much cheaper.
If you must purchase SW from the LFS...get a 5g jug of RO water, and the highest SG the store has. Dilute it yourself to the proper SG, and you get almost double water amount per gallon.
 
vdtank

vdtank

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3520924
I wouldn't purchase saltwater from a LFS either, unless it was an emergency. RO water from a grocery store, and a bucket of salt mix...much, much cheaper.
If you must purchase SW from the LFS...get a 5g jug of RO water, and the highest SG the store has. Dilute it yourself to the proper SG, and you get almost double water amount per gallon.
Yeah right now using store water just to get started...right now pay about $ 4.20 for 5G jug which is my weekly water change.
So bye using RO i dont need worry about nothing else but just add SG.
This will deftly be the next phase for me
Thank You
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDtank http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3520932
Yeah right now using store water just to get started...right now pay about $ 4.20 for 5G jug which is my weekly water change.
So bye using RO i dont need worry about nothing else but just add SG.
This will deftly be the next phase for me
Thank You
LOL...SG stands for Specific Gravity...AKA, Salt level.
The salt mix has all the needed chemical balances to keep SW critters alive. The right PH, Alkalinity, Calcium and such. Your fish store mixes it up, and sells it for $. Charging you for the mix, and the water, with a little profit for their trouble. My LFS sells saltwater for $1.00 per gallon. I have a 90g tank, and spent $50.00 a month on top off water, and for water changes. I have my own RO unit, and now have a 56g tank besides. If I were still going to the LFS for my SW, I would be spending nearly $100.00 a month just for RO water.
If you purchase water from your local Walmart (37 cents a gallon here in my area) or best, get your own Reverse osmosis 5 stage water filter, and purchase a bucket of salt mix ($40.00) that makes up about 200g of saltwater, you save money. If you get your own RO unit, it supplies drinking water that's pure and good for you and your family besides. So the RO water is great for all the household.
 
vdtank

vdtank

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/395334/sump-vs-canister-filter#post_3520983
LOL...SG stands for Specific Gravity...AKA, Salt level.
The salt mix has all the needed chemical balances to keep SW critters alive. The right PH, Alkalinity, Calcium and such. Your fish store mixes it up, and sells it for $. Charging you for the mix, and the water, with a little profit for their trouble. My LFS sells saltwater for $1.00 per gallon. I have a 90g tank, and spent $50.00 a month on top off water, and for water changes. I have my own RO unit, and now have a 56g tank besides. If I were still going to the LFS for my SW, I would be spending nearly $100.00 a month just for RO water.
If you purchase water from your local Walmart (37 cents a gallon here in my area) or best, get your own Reverse osmosis 5 stage water filter, and purchase a bucket of salt mix ($40.00) that makes up about 200g of saltwater, you save money. If you get your own RO unit, it supplies drinking water that's pure and good for you and your family besides. So the RO water is great for all the household.
Well right for our drinking uses we use local store that sell filter water for 25 cent for a gallon but its not called RO water. I use this type water before on my FW tank.
Do you think I use our drinking water (Filter Water) for the water changes?
 
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