Tang with white spots (2 weeks in hypo)

[gatorcsm]

Purple Tang has been in hypo for two weeks. He hasn't been eating and has lost considerable mass. With regards to feeding, every avenue has been attempted.
He has now developed white spots on his body. They don't look like ich. And it would be very improbable as s.g. has been at 1.009 for 2 weeks and 2 days (measured by refractometer and digital hydrometer)
Ammonia - 0, nitrites - 0, nitrates - 0
pH - 8.18
switching off from polyfilter and carbon to try to keep water as good as possible during treatment. Feeding food soaked in garlic/zoe/zoecon.
The purple tang has been moved to a ht that has been established for 2 months;
I'll change this picture to a newer one:

 

[gatorcsm]

Sorry it's such a bad picture... Hard to get it any better.
The spots are same size as ich, but more defined edges. More smooth edges. Not that many of them either, maybe 15. Could they be infections where the ich was?

 

[beth]

I can't see anything on the pic. Are the spots protruding, or flat against the skin?
Is the tang getting seaweed?? A lot of grazing?

 

[gatorcsm]

He won't graze, he won't eat seaweed. Nothing. Sorry about the pic. If you took ich, but made it less 'fuzzy' around the edges, that would be this. They are protruding, symmetrical dots.

 

[gatorcsm]

There are also about two areas that are light in color that aren't raised. These have been there for about 1 1/2 weeks.

 

[gatorcsm]

Better picture here:
This fish has definitely been at 1.009 for the past 2 weeks and 3 days. Unless it is possible for ich to survive in those conditions, this is not ich. I have not found (thus far) anything that looks like this. But i'm not that experienced in the different diseases, so that's not hard... Hopefully this picture helps

 

[gatorcsm]

I'm feeding him (or atleast offering him) food soaked in zoe/zoecon and garlic. But he won't eat it or anything else I put in there. I've offered nori, caulerpa, the red macro algae (can't remember name), flake, formulas, some of the other frozen type foods; And i've tried all of them soaked in stuff and not soaked in stuff, just in case there was something that he wasn't liking about the additives.
I've been checking SG daily with refractometer. I'm doing this treatment in the main tank as well (90gallon), just moved him to this ht (20gallon) yesterday after seeing this.
I have been checking everyday, and since it took something close to 3 gallons of fresh water to drop it each .001, I am almost 100% sure that it wasn't possible for it rise, I've never had to add more than 1/8th - 1/4 gallon at any time... So i'm confident there. I had treated the clowns earlier due to a secondary infection (treated in myracin II), and they are now doing great. This is the first visible sign of anythig on the tang.
So, formalin bathes 45 minutes. 20drops per gallon, well aerated water, 1st, 3rd, 6th day.
What is lymphocsytis ? fungus? Would it be a infection in some of the areas that hadn't healed from where the ich had burrowed?
Thanks for all of the help, I really appreciate everyones time with it.

 

[gatorcsm]

Today, some of the spots are a little bigger, and I think I could use very little tufts of cotton to describe them. Dense though. But they definitely look like a growth. Since it's sunday i've still got about 1.25 hours till I can run up to my lfs for the formalin.
If there is any change in recommended treatment, I will check back before heading out.
Thanks again,
Gator

 

[gatorcsm]

-How long have you had the tang?
Got the fish ~january 9th
-Is the fish breathing normally?
Most of the time, he is breathing normally, occasionally he does appear to be breathing heavily
-How long has it had the faded spots and the raised bumps?
The faded spots have been around for almost 2 weeks, a little less (about 3-4 days after starting the hypo i believe)
-Does the fish swim normally or is it lethargic?
He swims around, but occasionally does act sort of disoriented (running into wall or bumbing into the pvc...)
-Do you see any mucus strings hanging from the fish, especially around the gills and face?
No mucus
pH has been steady at 8.10-8.18. Adding a buffer whenever it drops to around 8.03-8.04
I have my pinpoint hooked up to the tank so I can easily check it.
I'll implement your suggestions. One quick question, I've heard that Myracin 2 for FW is the same as M2 for SW, except for the B vitamins. Is this true? I still have a little M2 for SW left, but I don't have enough. I do have some unexpired M2 for FW. Is this ok?
I've alread performed the first formalin bath. He seemed ok, just got a little paler, and breathing slightly heavy by the end, but doing ok now. We'll see how it goes.
I'll keep you updated. I really hope he makes it!
Thanks again. Your help has been invaluable

 

[gatorcsm]

Yes, a few of the spots did disappear, maybe a quarter of them to half. The salinity is just above 1.011 now. I bought some new M2 for SW, the FW stuff wasn't expired, but I noticed it doesn't have the same strength as the SW...
Tomorrow I'll finish bringing it up to 1.015 or so. I'll try feeding again then. I had tried feeding earlier today, so I incase there's too much I wasn't able to suck up, I don't want too much waste in there. Too small to handle all that food i think. I hope it helps.
Gator

 

[beth]

pH is 8.10-8.18 and you're adding a buffer whenever it drops to around 8.03-8.04 ???????
8.03 is the normal range for pH. 8.10-8.18 is too high.

 

[gatorcsm]

Isn't 8.0-8.3 normal sea water parameters?
I suspected that keeping it in the middle of the band would provide the best margin for error.
I add approx 1/16 of a tspn to provide that .08 change.

 

[beth]

8.03 is perfect, thus, you should not be buffering if the water is 8.04-8.02. This high pH could be part of your problem.

 

[gatorcsm]

Is 8.1-8.2 considered high? My new seawater has always been 8.15-8.21
My main tank, with no buffering has always stuck around 8.11-8.19
It never dropped until the hypo. That 1/16th of tspn only just got it to 8.1
I was going off the reading of the fresh batches (after sitting overnight) and the book "Marine Water Quality Guidlines"
I was unaware of it being high. Well, I only had to add it once, when I first started the hypo, and that brought it from 7.99-8.11; it was steady over the 2 weeks. But those were my planned numbers. Now that I have been bringing the water back up however, it has raised from that 8.10 to 8.14
I won't add it again though. Didn't think that one add would hurt.
Added with edit:
Now I'm confused, did a search on pH here, and everyone seemed to think around 8.2..?????
Example:

[hr]
quote

[hr]
frankl15207
Titan Trigger
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 553
Try dosing with Kalkwasser in your makeup water, dripping if possible (Mine is added through an automatic top off system in my sump). Once I started using it my PH and calcium stabilized and I haven't had to add any buffer of any kind since. Alk is at 11.8, calcium is always in the 430-460 range when tested and the PH stays at 8.2 in the early am with lights off to 8.35 in the evening with the lights on.

[hr]
end quote

[hr]
I'm sorry; Confused though....I don't understand what is wrong with 8.1??
Thanks
Gator

 

[beth]

Yes, 8.3 is an excellent pH. I'm off with my decemals! Must have been tired last nite. Sorry Gator, was reading that wrong!

 

[gatorcsm]

Wheew.. Ok, I was running around everywhere looking for my book, and I couldn't find it... I was thinking I must have gone crazy... I actually mentioned to my wife, 'maybe she thought I was wording it like specific gravity' You know, where people will say i dropped down to 1.09 (vice 1.009) and leave it off;
Thanks for all the help guys, I'll keep you posted on how the fish does today up at 1.015 (or is that 1.15...??) JK
Later,
- Gator

 

[beth]

Unfortunately, I'm not very good at math. Your posting multiple digit fractions threw me. I'm used to that with SG, but not pH. Sorry!

 

[gatorcsm]

No problem. I'm just glad I hadn't really messed up the pH.
We all make mistakes. Heh.... I know, I hadn't quarantined a fish, and look at the messes i'm in! ...

 

[gatorcsm]

Just fed the tang; he ate atleast two pieces of flake. He seemed more interested now, but stil seems to be missing the food when he goes for it. At least he ate something. Just dosed the first day's worth of M2 for SW. Salinity is now at 1.016; I think i'll leave it there for a while and see how it goes, unless ofcourse I get further guidance advising any different. Recent tests have ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate at 5, so seems everything is ok there. pH is 8.18, temp is 78
I put in a clip with with some Nori to provide something for him to graze on... Hopefully he'll catch on.
Looking better!
Thanks again.

 

[gatorcsm]

Never was interested in the nori, but has been eating more. Still seems uncordinated when going after the food...