tangs not surviving hypo

[bewaretheblond]

hi, i have been reading these boards for a few months now and they have helped me a lot. i lost all my first fish to ich (i didn't quarantine before). so now i've started over, i decided to quarantine and hypo all new fish. i did 2 clowns and they are fine and in the main tank. then i got a scopas tang and he was fine till about 2 1/2 weeks into the hypo and suddenly he just started floating around, breathing hard, and laying on his side. i tested the water and the qt must have had a spike cause the nitrites were .5 so i did water changes but i lost him anyways.
so now i have another scopas tang and he is just past 2 weeks in hypo and now he is floating around too, like he can't control his swimming, and also breathing hard. but there is no spike this time the ammonia is 0 nitrites 0 nitrates between 10-20 temp 80 ph 8.0 (i have to keep buffering it). the salinity has been 1.008 to 1.009 for 2 weeks and 2 days after lowering it in 48 hrs like the instructions on here. the quarantine is an 18 gal rubbermaid bucket with a hob filter rated for a 40 gal tank, also it has a heater and 1 sm ph (160 gph). he eats a few pellets everyday and a piece of nori sheet every other day, cept now he is not eating but his stomach is not pinched.
should i forget the hypo and bring the salinity back up?

 

[huskychasrs]

I'm but a noob myself. I'm pretty sure though the point of a QT is to observe new fish i.e. eating and free of disease for awhile not to do Hypo. Most have a separate hospital tank for emergencies for as far as I know or use the qt to do hypo in if need be.
Good luck, hope it works out.

 

[beth]

What are you using to measure salinity?

 

[renogaw]

some people feel it is ok to hypo every fish just in case, some feel it overstresses an already stressed out fish for no reason.
i'd check that your rubbermaid container isn't leaching oils from the production plant. check to see if there is a shiney film on top of the water. also, like beth asked, how are you reading your salt level?

 

[bewaretheblond]

with a refractometer, i calibrated it with RO water

 

[bewaretheblond]

i didn't see any spots on him when i bought him, but there was a hippo tang at the store when i bought him covered with ich so i figured it must be in all their tanks. so that's why i started the hypo

 

[renogaw]

and that is why a lot will. you NEVER know and it isn't always visible.
how's the fish doing now? as for having to buffer your pH, check your alk and calcium. they are probably very low

 

[old_salt]

Or just getting down to hypo level. I would never do hypo unless a fish shows signs of ick in QT. I am in the process of doing hypo on 6 fish at this time (started with 8). Before I even reached 1.009 I lost a bannerfish and a copperband butterfly. When I checked today, two small cinnamon clowns were showing signs of Brooknella. I put both in the recommended 20 drop formalin dip and you would have thought I put them in boiling water. The instructions above said to leave the fish in this mixture for 45 minutes using an air stone. The largest of the two started trying to jump out of the bucket due to what I assume was the burning of the formalin. I immediately put both back into the tank they came from and the larger one is now swimming upside down and is just barely breathing. This was after less than 2 minutes in this mixture. Has anyone else tried this 20 drop dip and had success with curing these fish? The instructions on the bottle call for 2 drops per gallon, but this is for dousing an entire tank, not a dip. After this, no more hypo and no more formalin dips (at least not at the 20 drops per gallon). I now wish I had tried using copper instead of hypo as the way it looks now there is probably only going to be 4 of the original 8 remaining in the morning. Sad thing is that these clowns were showing no signs of ick in the main tank.

 

[bewaretheblond]

he is the same. panting and doing that floating thing, like he does not have strength to swim. i don't have tests for calc and alk. i did a 4 gal water change today (with the same sg 1.009) in case it might help.
i don't believe he has any spots but scopas tangs look kind of speckley so it is hard to tell, especially looking through the clear plastic of the bucket instead of glass.
well tues will be 3 weeks if he survives till then i am going to start the 5 day water changes to raise the sg.

 

[sepulatian]

Something must have went wrong. How did you drop the SG? Did you add lowered salinity water for the changes or streight RO water? How quickly did you drop the sg?

 

[bewaretheblond]

oh dear, you are supposed to used 1.009 water to lower it? i did not understand that part in the instructions. i lowered it in 48 hours by replacing a couple gallons at a time out of the qt with ph-buffered RO water, 3 or 4 times a day for a complete 2 days.
and he is still the same. i think he must be eating though cause his stomach is not pinched.

 

[9g]

I too have not have a good experience with a blue tang in hypo.

 

[old_salt]

Originally Posted by bewaretheblond
oh dear, you are supposed to used 1.009 water to lower it? i did not understand that part in the instructions. i lowered it in 48 hours by replacing a couple gallons at a time out of the qt with ph-buffered RO water, 3 or 4 times a day for a complete 2 days.
That would be the first I've heard anyone mention using lower salinity water to bring a tank into hypo. If you look at Beth's instructions for hypo (above) she only mentions using fresh declorinated water.
Quote from Beth's hypo instructions:
"Hyposalinity is a procedure involving lowering the salinity from normal tank levels to 14 ppt (1.009 Specific Gravity) over the course of 48 hours. This is done by doing a series of small water changes using fresh dechlorinated water. During the procedure, pH must be closely monitored as pH tends to drop as water become less saline."
This might explain why we are having so many fish die going into hypo. I still don't see how it makes any difference if you used fresh RO (buffered) or water mixed at 1.009 to bring your tank into hypo, as long as you do it gradually. I personally will never do hypo again. I have lost over 1/2 of the fish that I put into hypo last week (2 clowns were killed when they showed signs of Brook and I put them in a 20 drop formalin dip for less than 2 minutes). Good luck to you folks using hypo, it can be deadly and costly.

 

[sepulatian]

Dropping the tank gradually is key no matter which way you do it. Hypo is only stressful if it is done improperly. Some people do large water changes rather than smaller ones throughout the day or the QTtank is not cycled, the water isn't buffered so the PH drops, the SG is dropped too quickly or too slowly. There are many things that can go wrong. It is the safest method that I have seen for treating ich as long as it is done properly. There are many of us that are always around to answer questions and we do our best to walk people through the procedure.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by bewaretheblond
oh dear, you are supposed to used 1.009 water to lower it? i did not understand that part in the instructions. i lowered it in 48 hours by replacing a couple gallons at a time out of the qt with ph-buffered RO water, 3 or 4 times a day for a complete 2 days.
and he is still the same. i think he must be eating though cause his stomach is not pinched.
You didn't do it wrong. You did it the right way if you dropped the SG gradually over the 48hr period. If you have any more questions don't be afraid to ask

 

[wattsupdoc]

I have read that many tangs dont do well with hypo, my blonde naso tang fared it well when I had to hypo him. IMO, start bringing him out of hypo, almost three weeks should do it if there was any ick. I dont know though how you could tell if he did in a rubbermaid. You really should get an aquarium to do this in so you can view them better.

 

[bewaretheblond]

well i think he's a goner, he is flat on his side all day today. i am just waiting for him to stop breathing.
and i did have an aquarium for qt but it was only 10 gal and hard to keep the water at the right parameters. so that's why i switched to the bucket cause i didn't have the money for a 20gal tank.
unfortunately, not knowing what went wrong, i don't know what to change for next time. except to try another kind of fish, since i had success with the clowns.

 

[al mc]

BWBlond...Sorry about your losses and frustration with Hypo. Many who have read my posts know that I am one of the people that uses hypo on all new fish. I had a terrible problem with Ich when I first started this hobby and swore I would do everything needed to prevent another outbreak.
everyone in this hobby has lost fish. I blame myself for the loss of several.
IMHO..Hypo is safe and effective (I have used it on tangs successfully..two yellows, a blue, a hippo and an achilles)...major problem that I have had is the pH. It can change real fast, as other people mentioned, since there is little to no buffering capacity in 1.009 water...so I check it 2x daily

there are many board members with far more experience than I that always are here to help..good luck..

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by bewaretheblond
well i think he's a goner, he is flat on his side all day today. i am just waiting for him to stop breathing.
and i did have an aquarium for qt but it was only 10 gal and hard to keep the water at the right parameters. so that's why i switched to the bucket cause i didn't have the money for a 20gal tank.
unfortunately, not knowing what went wrong, i don't know what to change for next time. except to try another kind of fish, since i had success with the clowns.
What kind of biological filtration did you have in a bucket? If, God forbid, he dies, please set up a qt large enough for future fish and cycle it before buying any more. If the fish is still alive then check the water parameters.

 

[bewaretheblond]

oh it wasn't a bucket like a water bucket, it was an 18 gal rubbermaid thing which i thought was plenty big enough for a quarantine since i only get i fish at a time.
the only biological filtration is the blue sponge thingie in the hob filter, what else can you have if you do hypo? it has been set up for several months, since i have already quarantined 2 clowns and a couple batches of inverts/corals/rocks. the parameters were ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrates about 15 ph 8.0
and yes he did die, rip...