The NANO Police!

justinx

Active Member
Alright . . . it seems that this forum has gained in some popularity and has stuck around for a bit now. I am really glad for this as I find nano tanks a great facet of this hobby.
But I see so many people asking the same questions over and over again, and it seems like people are not paying attention to the answers.
There are several things that need to be considered when setting up a nano tank, and one of the major things is that many of the "standard" rules of reefkeeping do not apply or are applicable with a twist.
For starters, nano tanks in my opinion are not for the beginner. A nano tank (NT) is far more difficult than a 55 gallon or what have you. Furthermore, NT's are not a cheap alternative to a bigger tank. If you set it up properly, it will still be expensive. And if you choose to not set it up properly as an avoidance of costs, then dont bother in the first place.
One reason why a NT is not for the begginer is that the water levels are exceedingly more sensitive. Here is an analogy:
Take a shot glass and fill it with a clear liquid (I prefer vodka, and hey its my analogy!:D ) Add one drop of food coloring. Then take a milk container and fill it with the same clear liquid, and add one drop of food coloring.
There is going to be an immense difference in color becuase of the concentrations. The same principles apply to a NT. Salinity especially, but others as well such as ca, alk, pH, etc. Keeping these levels stable requires very strict husbandry IME, and can be a daunting task for the novice.
Another issue/question that I see constantly being raised is the notion of placing fish into NT's. IMO, this is not a great idea for anything less than 20 gallons. Sure, it can be done in 10 gallon tanks, even some smaller ones. But rest assured the individuals who keep these tanks are experienced hobbiests, and have been at this long enough to know how to handle it. The main problems with fish in such a small tank is that 1. Filtration. Fish place the greatest stress on a filter system. Especially in a NT with limited LR/LS and limited water volume. Problems with nitrates, algae, cyano are all bound to occur. True this is an issue with any tank, but in a NT it is far more difficult to correct. 2. Swimming space. After all the LR and LS are in place in say a 10 gallon tank, with 10lbs of LR, How much space is really left for the animal to move about freely? I know that this can then be expanded and generalized to the entire aquarium and fishkeeping industry, but seriously . . . there is a HUGE difference between keeping a fish in a 10 gallon versus a 20, or 50, or 300.
I want to stress that this is not written in attempt to point any fingers, or single anyone out, nor is it in response to any particular thread/post. I am very pleased that there is interest in keeping NT's, but there is a lot more to it than what goes into a larger system. In many ways, a NT is more difficult than a larger system.
These are entirely my own opinons here and in no way I am pretneding to be the "police" here. I am not trying to infer any superiority or anything, just inform people about the lure and peril of keeping nano tanks.
Justin
 

plum70rt

Active Member
Some very good points:)
Nano tanks are small with a big responsibility,
need special care, many of the issues with a larger tank are certainly concentrated with a small one,
I hope anyone attempting one will learn this before hand:)
 

bdhough

Active Member
I can say i started my salt water with a 12 nano and its a great little tank. Have a 20 too. I didn't find it too hard. Granted im not keeping the hardest stuff in it. I thinks its more a matter that people dont understand the scope and size of reefs. Your average coral colony in the wild is probably far larger than any nano. Fish as well. I started with a 12 but i also was constantly asking questions and had a brother to help me. After almost a year and two lfs jobs i'm still learning the intricacies today. I think its all a matter of doing your hw and being patient patient patient which can be a problem......
 

polarpooch

Active Member
Cool tank:)
I'm interested in a nano eventually...what kind of lighting do you recommend and where do you get it? I have a 5g hex...is there a retrofit out there for it?
 

justinx

Active Member
I too started my tank hobby with a nano reef. I have a 20H that has been set up for a year, but I consider myseld a hobbiest for a year and a half or so. I spent so much time reseraching and reading before i even had a tank, let alone filled with water.
As you mentioned, homework is key . . . .with any tank, but especially with a nano. Furthermore, patience is even more critical, as previoulsy mentioned. I am not trying to discourage anyone from keeping a nano reef, but I really think that a nano tank is not in the scope of possibilities for people trying to cut costs, or simplify maintenance but still want to have all the possibilites of a full size reef tank. It is simply not feasible.
Justin
 
Very well put Justin !!
I person am still working on my "nano" tank. It is a 30, going to be a reef. Lighting is 175watt 6500 MH with a 65 watt PC actinic. This is tank has all the fish and crustations in the tank that is going to be added. Now I am just waiting for a little more LR and I am going to be set !!
 

chevytrks

Member
i went do far as to measure and have built a refugium for my 5 gallon NT. I made sure i utilized every possible cm avail for this tank. Believe it or not with that much research and planning, it is less trouble than any one of my other tanks. I have zoo's , shroom's, torch coral, xenia to name a few. I also have a small cleaner shrimp, a sexy shrimp, and a clown goby as its inhabitants. I built the canopy and installed 2 24watt pc's, one is actinic and one is 10k. Usually all i have to do is top off the water and feed (food and phytoplankton). I am currently about to plan a restructure of the rocks and corals usilize space more efficiently for more coral.
If done correctly with proper planning, it will still be a challenge , but one of your favorite tanks to watch.
I have a 20 gallon long also, that i placed a 20 H tank under in the stand for a refugium, placed 2 75 vho over it , and i am growing about anything i want in there, I am even having great success with a maxima in this tank too.
Good luck to all you nano reefers!
 

reefnut

Active Member
This is a 5- Star Post. It's easy to get caught up in "what do I need". I've wanted a Nano for a long time. It took me months to finally decide to go for it and months to settle on the system.
Learn on a larger system and graduate to the nanos!!!!
 

cyslyde

Member
You make a good argument... I especially like your dilusion analogy....
I mean no disrespect towards you or anybody else in the rest of this, just playing devils advocate.
On Size
I started with a 29 Gal, I and when i think of nano i think of 10 and below. I also think that starting out small can help someone learn the ins and outs better than a huge tank where they have Less maintnence, then move small and wonder why it doesn't work. Yes it can be expensive still, but if it weren't for my ability to build tanks i couldn't afford the inital purchase of anything more than 30 gal glass, on sale at LHS, because it has a small chip on the side and nobody else would buy it (look over at repaird chip in corner of my "big" (29) tank (sigh)). Some ppl have to go small just to afford that inital hit, or thats what they got already and cannot afford to go "all new".
On the multiple posts
IMO I would rather read 20 posts on what should i do, than only see one what should i do followd by 50 posts on ppl complaining that they went to a LHS that set them up with a 5 gal and a small tang, but nothing else, and it didn't work. I know it gets tiring, but it can be benifical to others to see what thier peers are thinking about doing. sorry just my opinion. You can always refer them to the other posts or simply put a "Sounds cool" if you like it or an "I wouldn't do it" If you Don't. And as far as that goes, I know this is a small section of the forum, but you should keep in mind that many of the users may not have enough time to read every post on a certin type of rock, sand, fish, snail, ect... or in several cases such is on other boards i go (especially my truck forum) they might not be as computer literate as some of the rest of us are, and honestly don't know how to do a search... whats even scarrier about that is they might be too afaid of being mocked to even ask how. Sometimes the fear of bieng rejected is stronger than the fear of doing something stupid. Usually I ask a simular question for support, You never know somebody may have tried the same setup before and really enjoyed it, or totally hated it, but never said anything about it. When i don't get much support, which happens often here, I shy away from the idea, and it also makes me feel less like asking more pertinent questions. Also maybe the mods could help cut this down a little more with taking some of the better awnsered popular posts and stickying them.
On the fish subject.
I do believe on a properly setup/maintained tank, one can keep a fish or two. But... a person must also keep in mind, fish grow, make waste, and require more work. There is no one good fish, since i have found every one is different... I have personally had a goby which will not stay still, and is very frinedly. a buddy has the same type of goby, anytime you get within 5 feet of his tank boom it's hiding, and it very rarely strays more than a few inches from it's home even for food. They are living creatures, and just because your other one acts one way doesn't mean you new one will too. You also must Watch for signs of stress, and the person must be willing to learn things the hard way (hopefully they don't have too), before you add one. My suggestions for fish are small and docile, something that stays in one place will be much better than an overly active swimmer.
One other thing I want to comment on.
I read Several boards on a regular basis. Several of these deal with more "experimental" issues like this board... THERE IS NO EXACT FORMULA FOR A GOOD TANK. what works for me might not and prolly won't for you, but thats what can make it fun. By far this is one of the biggest and also one of the WORST to post on. I don't like the software as much either but there are worse out there... sorry just calling it like i see it. at the same point I also usually get a stronger and more unified answer when ppl do answer, on this board than I do on others. I see a lot of bashing here, and a lot of grouping then singling out between users. we should do more unifing and supporting, and not as much bashing.
After all aren't we all here for a little support?
Just My Opinion, please do not take offence, I am not trying to point fingers or exclude anybody, I just felt this is what I need to say. If I offended you I'm sorry, It was not intentional.
 

langcjl

Member
please search before posting, I get really annoyed when interactive forums become too full of people interacting. What would be really great is if one person would read through all the posts and condence them all into one article. SWF could then disable posting and none of us would be forced to read posts that we do not want to read.
 

reefnut

Active Member

Originally posted by langcjl
please search before posting, I get really annoyed when interactive forums become too full of people interacting. What would be really great is if one person would read through all the posts and condence them all into one article. SWF could then disable posting and none of us would be forced to read posts that we do not want to read.

That would be boring...
 

cb

Member
I personally like reading everyone's opinion but that's just me. Now I have a question and I apoligize in advance if it has been answered somewhere else. If you have nano how many watts per gal of pc's would you need and i understand that there are varing opinions on this but I would just like a general idea.
Thanks CB:)
 

leigh

Active Member
It really depends on what you want to keep. If you want SPS you need to be way up there...if you want a piece of rock with a shrimp it's a lot less. Personally I have 13w over 3 gal and am only planning on keeping mushrooms. I'm sure if you do a search on this forum you'll turn up what some other people keep in various tank size/lighting combinations. (And remember, just cause somebody else did it doesn't necessarily mean it's recomended!)
 

nm reef

Active Member
Very nice article to start this thread.....never really considered the concept of nano police though.
I don't drop by here often but I am glad I did today. The information and activity is impressive. I'd agree that nanos could be difficult to establish and maintain...and should be carefully researched prior to attempting one.
As for the concept of no inter-action on the boards...I'd have to dis-agree with that concept. Part of the pleasure of this hobby is the inter-action between hobbiest and the exchange of experience/information....thats the porpose of forums such as this one. Makes for some interesting exchanges and in my case at least establishes contacts and friendships. True...repeat posts could be limited...and folks could make more use of the search feature located at the top of the page but it can be a good thing to read posts and inter-act with folks even though the questions are often repeated.
Any way...good luck all you lil reef keepers.....:cool:
 

justinx

Active Member
Well . . . . I didnt really intend there to be a nano police force, but I was just trying to grab peoples attention. And I see that it worked:D
Anyway, I am not really sure how the no interaction came up. That was not the point that i was trying to make. I was really trying to tell people to use the search feature in a polite fashion. But, I guess things got a little twisted.
I really hope that this forum keeps going. There is a lot to learn about nano tanks that are considerably more different than their larger counterparts.
Justin
 

burnnspy

Active Member
I see there a very nice picture of a small and what appears to be new reef. I find it hard to believe that the reef is a year old, correct me if I'm wrong.
For instance, in my experience, mushrooms and polyps would have taken over a well maintained nano in prolly a year. The glass, rocks and pumps should be encrusted with coraline algae and other hitchhikers(like small tube worms etc.).
A beginner reefer may be confused into thinking a nano is easy to do when just glancing at such a picture.
 

overanalyzer

Active Member
Take a shot glass and fill it with a clear liquid (I prefer vodka, and hey its my analogy! ) Add one drop of food coloring. Then take a milk container and fill it with the same clear liquid, and add one drop of food coloring.
THen DRINK both .... once you can handle that you can handle a Nano. :eek:
OK - seriously now - while I agree with a lot of what you have said Justin - I believe the key to be research.
I started this hobby many moons ago ('91 actually) with a 5 gallon tank and a dream. Of course that 5 gallon tank crashed off and on and i gave up on SWF for a while.... but once i got back into it I started with a 5 gallon again. Moved up to my current 20 and then on to my 140 which is now just finishing the cycle ......
Personally - once I got the 20 up and stable it is now routine maintenance - setting it up took constant monitoring and constant work. Yet - it was "easier" to set up than my 140 .....
It was "easier" becuase I had to do a bunch of DIY plumbing and work on drains, do more math, etc. The Nano was pretty much an out of hte box experience. I open box - install equipment. The only thing I had to DIY on my nano was the box like canopy (which is very simple).
I would encourage everyone to try a Nano - ONCE they do the proper RESEARCH. I still do daily maintenance and top-off and such and now I am lucky - I only test my water monthly unless one of my corals is not looking right ..... so please do your RESEARCH !!!!
PLEASE!!
Good post Justin!
 
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