the truth about palytoxins

reefkprz

Active Member
ok I posted this on another thread but I dont want this information to get Lost persay under the barrage of other posts there so here it is,
its true zoanthids and palythoas have some of the most (potentialy) leathal paly and cytotoxins out there, palytoxin poisoning is a very real danger I always wear gloves and glasses when fragging mine.
Palytoxin acts at the cell membranes to make them permeable to cations - positively charged ions, typically sodium, potassium, and calcium. Many functions of cells depend upon controlling the flow of these ions in and out of the cell, so disrupting this traffic is very dangerous.
At the physiological level, the most sensitive target is the myocardium, or muscular component of the heart, and the primary effect is vasoconstriction or rapid narrowing of blood vessels in the heart and in the lungs. Another effect is hemolysis, or the destruction of the red blood cells. These three effects taken together cut off the oxygen supply and the victim suffocates
Palytoxin was first isolated from the soft coral Palythoa toxica. Several species of Palythoa are used in aquariums, but do not produce the toxin. Originally, it was only found in a single tidal pool on the island of Maui in Hawaii and native Hawaiians used to coat

[hr]
points with a red seaweed from the pool. Toxin-containing corals appear to be randomly and sparingly distributed throughout the South Pacific and there is now a school of thought that suggests that the coral is simply concentrating the toxin made by a dinoflagellate (a small single-celled organism) called Ostreopis siamensis.
Palytoxin is the most toxic natural product known, it is estimated that the lethal dose for a human is less than five micrograms
Palytoxin is an incredibly complex molecule with 64 stereocenters and a backbone of 115 contiguous carbon atoms
in other words theres probably not enough in your coral to kill you but it could make you very sick, up to the point of hospitalization. on the other hand if your allergic or sensative........
 

reefkprz

Active Member
And remember please just because it hasn't happened to you yet does not mean it wont, care should be taken when handeling any coral, if you want to scoff or laugh go ahead but at least read this article
*sorry links to other sites are not allowed*
then laugh all you want

some other interesting tidbits to got with that info
A handful of coral pathogens (microbes that are proven to cause a specific disease) have been identified (reviewed by Rosenberg and Loya, 2004).
Coral-associated microbes are distinct from those in the water column (Frias-Lopez, 2002).
Different species of corals have different bacterial communities (Rohwer, 2002).
The coral-associated bacterial community shifts when the coral is stressed (Pantos, 2003).
 

reefkprz

Active Member
I'm kinda suprised no one has anything to say about this information.
well I hope everyone is having a good weekend. I have to go do the dreaded last minute christmas shopping soon.
 

wangotango

Active Member
pretty serious stuff. how exactly would you get the toxin into the bloodstream, through a cut or something? i leave me zoos alone!
 

reefkprz

Active Member
through cuts or mucus membranes (some on your hands and you touch food or even wipe mouth, pick nose, rub eye, lots of ways.) open wounds are usually the cause along with accidental ingestion, its amazing that a cheap pair of rubber gloves can save your life, and honestly you should think twice about letting children help with tank chores unless you know you can provide completly undivided attention and show them the safe way to do something, I know someone who was handleing zoos and fed their dog afterwards the dog died of palytoxin poisoning. THERE IS NO ANTI TOXIN currently in production that I am aware of, prevention is the only treatment. If you get palytoxin poisoning all they can do is moniter is try to combat the effects and hope it doesnt kill you. Washing your hands is very important. when removing the rubber gloves pull one off with the gloved hand then using only the gloved hand scrunch the removed glove into the palm of the gloved hand, grasp the neck of the glove thats still on and pull it off over the other glove so it turns inside out, tie the neck of the glove and you have sealed all the toxin inside. It is still a great idea to wash up after incase any squirted onto your forearms. I know I wipe my for head or rub my eyes with my wrists and forearms, too safe is just right.
for those that hate wearing gloves because they fill with water just use a rubber band to close the back of the glove so no water gets in.
I'm not trying to promote paranoia by providing this information I am hopeing to promote good habits, and a safe hobby. thank you all who read this, I will check back to see If I can answer any other questions on this topic.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
Just bumping to give more people a chance to read this.please feel free to leave comments/questions. I will answer any and all to the best of my abilities.
 

big

Active Member
Thanks for posting this. Well worth the warning everyone again about these true dangers we face.
I talked to and warned a girl in a LPS handling Zoe' s a while back. She had no idea about the dangers!! The worst was she had worked there over a year and her "Boss" had never told her anything about the risk!!!
........ Warren
 

stimpy4242

Member
While I understand links to other sites are not allowed, i think it would be interesting to find someone who has an allergic reaction to zoos and blames it on this site for removing potential life saving information....perhaps the letter of the law and the spirit of the law should be considered some times. Nothing like trying to use a board to post information about a subject and being denied that learning experience...but hey what the heck.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by big
Thanks for posting this. Well worth the warning everyone again about these true dangers we face.
I talked to and warned a girl in a LPS handling Zoe' s a while back. She had no idea about the dangers!! The worst was she had worked there over a year and her "Boss" had never told her anything about the risk!!!
........ Warren
technicly they are supposed to have a hazardous materials data sheet on anything toxic in their store, including animals/fish and corals stating what do do in case of emergency, she could sue (not that I would reccomend that) but she definatly should have been made aware of the risks.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by stimpy4242
MSDS sheets are not required for animals.
Well learn something new everyday, I thought they were my bad.
she could still probably sue for endagerment or somesuch nonsense. considering some one could sue mc donalds for providing hot coffee. who would have thunk it coffee, hot, no way...
 

stimpy4242

Member
Yeah msds are just for hazardous materials. You know I don't know if you would really have a good case, i mean we all know you can sue for anything, but who knows...perhaps they should post something like in my LFS the tanks with lionfish for example have caution venomous fish...perhaps they should post similar notes on the coral tanks just to cya....but then again we are talking about the LFS preachers of crushed corals and anemones under no light...
 

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by stimpy4242
.but then again we are talking about the LFS preachers of crushed corals and anemones under no light...
 

reef diver

Active Member
This is an extremely old thread, however it has great importance. I know of a story where a guy accidentally snapped his glove, and a drop went into his eye, he was blind within an hr or two in that eye.
 

viper_930

Active Member
How does he know it was actually palytoxin that caused the blindness? The slime from corals harbor a heck of a lot of bacteria and could be another possible cause, not to mention palytoxin is only found in a handfull of species.
 

thereefer9

Member
What if you have those corallife gloves that arnt disposble how do keep palytoxins away from those Thanx for digging up this thread.
 
R

rattler739

Guest
Originally Posted by Reef Diver
This is an extremely old thread, however it has great importance. I know of a story where a guy accidentally snapped his glove, and a drop went into his eye, he was blind within an hr or two in that eye.
Thank you for posting this thread, I just ordered some zoos and they are supposed to arrive by the time i get home today and I would not have worn gloves and I am the type of person that does not wash their hands after everything but now i will be sure to do both today. Again thank you very much, could have just saved my eyes!! (
no joke)
 

moneyman

Member
You left this out:
Palytoxin is the most toxic natural product known, it is estimated that the lethal dose for a human is less than five micrograms. Supplies are extremely limited as it is only found at low concentrations in the corals that do contain it, although this may change if a microbial source is found.
Non-Competitive URL: http://www.cinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html. This site is a collection of factsheets on biological and chemical warfare agents.
I think this stuff is dangerous. But, it is normally no more dangerous then a bottle of Tylenol, poison ivy, peanuts, or a bee sting. But, if I dont post again after playing with my zoas tonight.. dont listen to me :)
 
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