This is really sad :-(
- Thread starter djevack
- Start date
murph
Active Member
I wouldn't worry about it to much. The planet goes through changes like this on a continual basis. Happening before our presence and will continue well after our exit.
The thing about these stories that I would worry about however is the suggestion that the way to solve environmental problems is always bigger government and less freedoms for you.
The thing about these stories that I would worry about however is the suggestion that the way to solve environmental problems is always bigger government and less freedoms for you.
nm reef
Active Member
Sad...but true....and as long as there have been reefs it has been happening...and as long as there are reefs it will continue to happen. True....global warming may indeed contribute to it....but even before the civilized world contributed to the problem it would still happen due to natural changes and fluctuations.
mystic7
Member
Yes, but they didn't mention another problem, that of the Crown of Thorns starfish also killing corals in the Barrier Reef. Seems that pollution is causing the waters to produce more algae, meaning more of the COT starfish are surviving. Whereas there used to be an 11 year period between infestations, giving the corals time to regenerate, the infestations are coming closer and closer together. And, of course, where you have manmade idiocy destroying corals, you have the greater chance of tsunami's. That's why the tsunami a year ago was so devastating, because man destroyed most of the reefs in that region which protected the coasts. Yes, we are doing a bang up job maintaining the ecosystem. And btw, I'm no environmentalist nut, just stating facts.
ophiura
Active Member
They are misleading in that article on several fronts, not the least of which is that the upper limit for corals is 84 degrees. This is a temperate water area so the corals in that area are adapted to lower temperatures. In other areas of the world 84 degrees is the norm and the corals are adapted for that and would probably bleach if the waters grew significantly cooler.
What we know from looking at paleo ecology of reefs by taking drill cores is that it is quite normal for them to go through "alternate stable states" if you will where for long periods they are dominated by small fast growing corals and algae and at other times dominated by slow growing massive stoney corals. We can then tie this in, for example in the Caribbean, to a die off of primary grazers as happened in the 80s with Diadema urchins leading to overgrowth by lots of algae (or conversely by the dominance of a predator such as Acanthaster - the crown of thorns).
There are many things we do not understand, and, IMO, we have to keep this in mind. Man is prone to simplistic solutions because we often can't grasp larger scale phenomena and see it over the course of geological history. I bet those continental plates moving around really messed up coral reefs. I bet there aren't even reefs any more where they used to be :scared:
It is important not to get caught up, IMO, in "man's lifetime scale." While this may seem bad for us as we interpret the environment, it may not be anything totally out of the ordinary on geologic timeframes.
Also, keep in mind that the tsunami/reef impact is HIGHLY related to this hobby. Does everyone buy tank raised or aquacultured rock? There was a short thread on this not too long ago where people said no, aquacultured rock was not as good. Maybe not as good, I disagree - superior ecologically for sure - but have you thought about it?
http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2...17-340331.html
What we know from looking at paleo ecology of reefs by taking drill cores is that it is quite normal for them to go through "alternate stable states" if you will where for long periods they are dominated by small fast growing corals and algae and at other times dominated by slow growing massive stoney corals. We can then tie this in, for example in the Caribbean, to a die off of primary grazers as happened in the 80s with Diadema urchins leading to overgrowth by lots of algae (or conversely by the dominance of a predator such as Acanthaster - the crown of thorns).
There are many things we do not understand, and, IMO, we have to keep this in mind. Man is prone to simplistic solutions because we often can't grasp larger scale phenomena and see it over the course of geological history. I bet those continental plates moving around really messed up coral reefs. I bet there aren't even reefs any more where they used to be :scared:
It is important not to get caught up, IMO, in "man's lifetime scale." While this may seem bad for us as we interpret the environment, it may not be anything totally out of the ordinary on geologic timeframes.
Also, keep in mind that the tsunami/reef impact is HIGHLY related to this hobby. Does everyone buy tank raised or aquacultured rock? There was a short thread on this not too long ago where people said no, aquacultured rock was not as good. Maybe not as good, I disagree - superior ecologically for sure - but have you thought about it?
http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2...17-340331.html
ninjamini
Active Member
Originally Posted by Murph
I wouldn't worry about it to much. The planet goes through changes like this on a continual basis. Happening before our presence and will continue well after our exit.
The thing about these stories that I would worry about however is the suggestion that the way to solve environmental problems is always bigger government and less freedoms for you.
NATURAL SELECTION
I agree 100%
However, Diversity is key for our survival.
As to the COT starfish we just need to breed the triton snail in captivity and release them into the wild. That will eat them up. Its there only predator besides us!
I wouldn't worry about it to much. The planet goes through changes like this on a continual basis. Happening before our presence and will continue well after our exit.
The thing about these stories that I would worry about however is the suggestion that the way to solve environmental problems is always bigger government and less freedoms for you.
NATURAL SELECTION
I agree 100%
However, Diversity is key for our survival.
As to the COT starfish we just need to breed the triton snail in captivity and release them into the wild. That will eat them up. Its there only predator besides us!
ctgretzky9
Member
Problem is we can only look at snapshots from the last few hundreds years or so with any kind of accuracy compared to the planet being millions of years old. Not much of a percentage.
ice core research is still in its infancy and results thought solid years ago have fallen to the wayside.
There is no way we can accurately guess if this is a normal cycle that occurs over thousands of years, or a new phenomenon created by man.
I would suggest we must have some slight impact, but I would dare to say not as much as many environmentalists (which wehter you believe it or not is a business!
) would lead you to believe.
Think about how many incredibly violent things occured in the planets history, and yet somehow it always rebounds fine.
Not to say we shouldn't watch what we are doing environmentally...we all have a vested and indeed lifesaving interest in the planets health, and the responsibility to do as much as we can individually to recycle, use less fossil fuels, etc...
ice core research is still in its infancy and results thought solid years ago have fallen to the wayside.
There is no way we can accurately guess if this is a normal cycle that occurs over thousands of years, or a new phenomenon created by man.
I would suggest we must have some slight impact, but I would dare to say not as much as many environmentalists (which wehter you believe it or not is a business!
Think about how many incredibly violent things occured in the planets history, and yet somehow it always rebounds fine.
Not to say we shouldn't watch what we are doing environmentally...we all have a vested and indeed lifesaving interest in the planets health, and the responsibility to do as much as we can individually to recycle, use less fossil fuels, etc...
mystic7
Member
Originally Posted by ninjamini
NATURAL SELECTION
I agree 100%
However, Diversity is key for our survival.
As to the COT starfish we just need to breed the triton snail in captivity and release them into the wild. That will eat them up. Its there only predator besides us!
Yes, they mentioned that, but there are millions of COT starfish, and they showed how long it takes a Triton snail just to kill and eat one starfish. Slooooooow.....
NATURAL SELECTION
I agree 100%
However, Diversity is key for our survival.
As to the COT starfish we just need to breed the triton snail in captivity and release them into the wild. That will eat them up. Its there only predator besides us!
Yes, they mentioned that, but there are millions of COT starfish, and they showed how long it takes a Triton snail just to kill and eat one starfish. Slooooooow.....
reefreak29
Active Member
ninjamini
Active Member
Originally Posted by mystic7
Yes, they mentioned that, but there are millions of COT starfish, and they showed how long it takes a Triton snail just to kill and eat one starfish. Slooooooow.....
Well they are snails afterall. There are groups of people that dive for these and
[hr]
them. They bring them up and send them to a landfill.
Yes, they mentioned that, but there are millions of COT starfish, and they showed how long it takes a Triton snail just to kill and eat one starfish. Slooooooow.....
Well they are snails afterall. There are groups of people that dive for these and
[hr]
them. They bring them up and send them to a landfill.