This is why electric cars make no sense...

stdreb27

Active Member
The 148bhp diesel has had its power increased and torque upped, while it delivers great economy at 67.3 mpg. But it’s expensive. The 1.8-litre i-VTEC petrol isn’t cheap either, and has to be revved hard – it feels pretty unresponsive at low revs.
So the need for a new engine is clear – and Honda is pinning its hopes on a new turbodiesel. The four-cylinder 1.6-litre i-DTEC certainly promises to be an interesting addition to the range, and has some clever technology on its side. Honda claims it will offer an unbeatable blend of fuel economy and power output, delivering best in class figures for both.
Key to achieving this is its low weight. An aluminium open deck block is used to shed the pounds – indeed, Honda claims it is the lightest engine of its type in the world, and at 170kg, it weighs significantly less than the 2.2. A more compact auxiliary system helps to reduce friction, too. Improvements in the cooling system reduce CO2 consumption by 15 per cent. When combined with the compact high-efficiency turbocharger, the results are impressive.
There’s plenty of pull from low-down and acceleration is strong from 2,000rpm-4,000rpm, although you have to work the admittedly solid six-speed manual gearbox hard to keep in the power band. Refinement is adequate at high speeds, although not on a par with the best in the class.
It promises to be a winner in terms of efficiency, too. Estimated fuel economy will be around the 75mpg mark, and sub 100-g/km emissions are promised, meaning free road tax.

Elsewhere, the rest of the package reflects the upgrades made to the rest of the range. The cabin uses better quality materials and the dash is more logically laid out. There’s plenty of space, too.

Re-tuned suspension has improved the Civic’s ride, and it makes for agile handling and an enjoyable drive. Key to this engine’s success, though, will be price, and with it not due to be launched for another 12 months, Honda is playing its cards close to its chest in terms of what you might expect to pay.

Get it right, and it will be an interesting alternative to the class leaders.

Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/275899/honda_civic_16_idtec.html?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Outbrain%20Honda#ixzz1n7oKjtqy
We're running around going nuts about a dang volt, or leaf. Where we have Diesels that can potentially do 70 MPG. This is why it makes no sense...
 

reefraff

Active Member
I am going to consider a prius for the wife's next car. With the price and tax credits they are starting to make sense.
If the government would pull it's head out of it's EPA that little diesel Honda could pull off closer to 100 MPG. If the environmentalist loons would wake up to the fact that a better tuned engine using less fuel will end up creating less pollution in the long run even if the engine runs slightly dirtier.
 

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390662/this-is-why-electric-cars-make-no-sense#post_3460838
I am going to consider a prius for the wife's next car. With the price and tax credits they are starting to make sense.
If the government would pull it's head out of it's EPA that little diesel Honda could pull off closer to 100 MPG. If the environmentalist loons would wake up to the fact that a better tuned engine using less fuel will end up creating less pollution in the long run even if the engine runs slightly dirtier.
No more tax credits on the Prius. I didnt get any when I bought mine back in June.
 

desertdawg

Member
And to think, I was pretty happy with 32 mpg out of my vette....
just like the new civic, I get pretty good pull from down low all the way to my personal best of 180mph with 460 hp and 470 tq.
My only problem is smoking rear tires...
disclaimer:
all speed test were performed on a super secret abandoned mexican highway
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertdawg http:///t/390662/this-is-why-electric-cars-make-no-sense#post_3460855
And to think, I was pretty happy with 32 mpg out of my vette....
just like the new civic, I get pretty good pull from down low all the way to my personal best of 180mph with 460 hp and 470 tq.
My only problem is smoking rear tires...
disclaimer:
all speed test were performed on a super secret abandoned mexican highway
no one believes me when I say the vette will do a 30 mph if you're just cruisin....
 

bionicarm

Active Member
I had a Volkwagen Rabbit Diesel back in the 80's that got almost 50MPG. I even used to go across the border to Nuevo Laredo to get the cheaper PEMEX diesel. Problem with diesel today is you pay almost an extra buck a gallon for the product (which always ceases to amaze me since it's the cheapest petroleum product to refine). So it's great that Honda can build a diesel engine that can potentially get 70MPG, but if you have to spend $5.50/gallon for diesel, as opposed to lets say $4.10/gallon for regular, what's your effective 'MPG' when you're paying an extra $1.40/gallon for that diesel fuel?
I just bought a 2012 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. The numbers say 35MPG city, and 40MPG highway. I drove from San Antonio to Houston last weekend, and utilized the "Blue Drive" technology in the car (fancy little screen and guage that shows me when I'm using more fuel than electric), and feathered the throttle so that I ran on the electric motor as much as possible (this thing can run as high as 75MPH on the electric motor). When I got to my sister's house, my fancy computer told me I got 51MPG for the trip. The sales guy that sold it to me said they had a competition on who could get the best MPG driving between San Antonio and Austin, and he claimed one guy got up to 63MPG. That one I found hard to believe. But considering I traded in a 2008 Nissan Titan that was getting me 14MPG combined city/highway, I was smiling the other day when I went to fill up at $3.45/gallon.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Diesel is still under 4 a gallon around here, bout 30 cent more than premium. The reason for the price increase is the epa mandate to remove sulfur from it. When I bought my diesel it was about 30 cents less than regular.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390662/this-is-why-electric-cars-make-no-sense#post_3461042
Diesel is still under 4 a gallon around here, bout 30 cent more than premium. The reason for the price increase is the epa mandate to remove sulfur from it. When I bought my diesel it was about 30 cents less than regular.
I know it's currently a 40 cents swing around here. I highly doubt it'll ever get to a dollar or more gap from what you pay for regular, but it'll be interesting to see what the cost will be when they're projecting $4 -$5/gallon gas this summer.
 

dragonzim

Active Member
I paid $3.89 to fill up the Prius this morning and it still only took about $35 to fill it up. That $35 tank will last me about 10 days. In my 4Runner that I had before the Prius, I was spending close to $125 ever 7 days. Sure, I definitely miss the truck and the cargo space it afforded, but I definitely dont miss that gas bill!
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390662/this-is-why-electric-cars-make-no-sense#post_3461080
I know it's currently a 40 cents swing around here. I highly doubt it'll ever get to a dollar or more gap from what you pay for regular, but it'll be interesting to see what the cost will be when they're projecting $4 -$5/gallon gas this summer.
Once diesel becomes more acceptable in this country the price will come down I think. Demand will go up but sometimes that's a good thing. They can also make this really cool fuel from coal that is clean burning. It will run diesel or jet engines. There as also a major manufacture putting the finishing touches on a nat gas engine that will replace the diesels in big rigs and heavy equipment. Thats going to open up a whole new segment.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390662/this-is-why-electric-cars-make-no-sense#post_3461170
Once diesel becomes more acceptable in this country the price will come down I think. Demand will go up but sometimes that's a good thing. They can also make this really cool fuel from coal that is clean burning. It will run diesel or jet engines. There as also a major manufacture putting the finishing touches on a nat gas engine that will replace the diesels in big rigs and heavy equipment. Thats going to open up a whole new segment.
You can always jump onto the Willie Nelson Bio-Diesel bandwagon. I had a buddy doing it for a while before the craze hit a couple years ago. He peruse all the local fast food joints grabbing their fryer grease for next to nothing. Now I think most of those businesses saw the potential for profit, and you have to setup contracts with them to suck their old grease from their pits. He was storing 55-gallon drums of it in his garage, and he converted an older model Mercedes to use it. I think the starup costs for all the equipment was around $3,000 - $5,000, but he's probably made that back buy now.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390662/this-is-why-electric-cars-make-no-sense#post_3461306
You can always jump onto the Willie Nelson Bio-Diesel bandwagon. I had a buddy doing it for a while before the craze hit a couple years ago. He peruse all the local fast food joints grabbing their fryer grease for next to nothing. Now I think most of those businesses saw the potential for profit, and you have to setup contracts with them to suck their old grease from their pits. He was storing 55-gallon drums of it in his garage, and he converted an older model Mercedes to use it. I think the starup costs for all the equipment was around $3,000 - $5,000, but he's probably made that back buy now.
When you could get the fryer grease for free or at least cheap it was a good deal, not any more.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390662/this-is-why-electric-cars-make-no-sense#post_3461170
Once diesel becomes more acceptable in this country the price will come down I think. Demand will go up but sometimes that's a good thing. They can also make this really cool fuel from coal that is clean burning. It will run diesel or jet engines. There as also a major manufacture putting the finishing touches on a nat gas engine that will replace the diesels in big rigs and heavy equipment. Thats going to open up a whole new segment.
The problem is as stated earlier, the gubbermint forces them to have stupid low emmissions that ends up basically watering down the diesel, making it less efficient, PLUS jacking up the price...
 

ironeagle2006

Active Member
Before I devoleped my TBI caused Epilepsy I was an OTR Driver and in 2000 I was getting between 7-8 MPG with a 625HP Detroit Diesel equipped Test Truck. The Truck was a test unit for the 14 Liter motor and they wanted to see what the Engine could produce to Beat Cat and Cummins 600HP offerings. Well It did and got better MPG than the rest of the Fleet. It got 7 if I was loaded at 79K lbs and 8 if I was under 75K Lbs. Between 7-8 between those ranges, Well Fast Forward 12 Years. Trucks are now just getting back to 7 MPG and to get there they are running APU's Bunk Heaters and everything they can get to stop the Engine from being Idled I did not have to worry about that. They also have cut back speed ont he trucks out there. I could run 75+ and did run the Speed limits in the Higher speed States.
What happened the EPA mandated that the Engine Makers take a system that was working great and replace it in 6 years when even they knew they needed 10 years to get it right. Also they refused to Certify the systems that they were RUNNIBNG already in Europe for 12 years. Guess what system they are running now what they are using in EUROPE and have been for 20 Years. Why it works. The Next target for the EPA was the RR and their Diesel Locomotives. They slapped the same consent Decree on them that they used on the OTR industry and it is going to be as Bloody there. Why a Locomotive can move 1 Ton of Freight 436 Miles on One Gallon of Fuel yet that is not good enough for the EPA. They want it better.
 

1snapple

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/390662/this-is-why-electric-cars-make-no-sense#post_3462033
A good cost cutting the measurement the government could do......Do away with EPA.......
Agreed
The funny thing to me is that like some 80% of americas electricity is produced from coal burning power plants.... cause burning coal is so much better for the enviroment. I call bullspit.
I think they just swindeling us for every last cent they can get their hands on, i cant wait for a hydrogen car
 
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