Totally confused with new tank. Help please!

cl72

cl72

New Member
I have a biocube 14gallon. Started on 8/10 with 10lbs live rock, 20 lbs live sand.
I followed all instructions given by the LFS and around the 2nd weeks started the diatoms blooms so LFS adviced me to add 2 mini hermits and 2 nassarius snails on 8/24. I added 2 more ceriths snails and 2 astrea snails on 8/27. Then I started to see purple algae which the LFS says its good showing the cycling is in good direction. We tested the water weekly, PH is not stable, lowest at 7.4 to highest 8.8 ( I never touched anything ). 1.020, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ammonia 0, temp 76-78z
Beside the PH issue, I thought all was in the right direction . I also don't understand about the tank is fully cycle after the spike of nitrite and ammonia, it never happened, always 0, even after the snails.
THEN! Today I visited another LFS, they used a machine to test the PH rather than test stripes or those bottle testing sets ( I tried both) and told me the PH is 7.3 only and told me I have done basically all wrong!
They say live sand is bad idea and want me to change to crushed coral and I should add buffer to bring up PH.
I am confused. Please help me here.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
So now you know why Flower on this site says to never go to a local LFS for advice. Now to specific issues:
1. How did you cycle the tank? Live sand may produce a "soft" cycle, but not reliably. You need a source of ammonium to cycle.
2. Don't trust instruments that measure pH unless you see it being standardized using a known pH buffer prior to measuring your sample. In hobbyist hands I usually find the colorimetric kits to be accurate enough. The fluctuating pH could be the result of many factors. Before I discuss those, I want you to understand that a 14 gallon nano is going to be less stable than a larger system. So what can change pH? Carbon dioxide is the most common culprit. This is produced during the dark phase of photosynthesis, so all tanks are a little more acidic in the morning after an overnight dark period. CO2 is vented off at the water's surface, so adequate surface turnover/agitation is very important. Marine tanks should not have a glass canopy which interferes with gas exchange,, and power heads should be used to produce surface flow.
3. If you saw an ammonium spike, then your tank is probably cycled, and you can add one fish.
4. Do not change to crushed coral - it is more difficult to maintain. Sand is fine (pun intended)!
 
dmanatee

dmanatee

Member
I will warn you, crushed coral is impossible to keep clean, and sand burrowing creatures (like nassarius snail)s don't really like crushed coral. Also, was it live Agonite sand, because that's what most of us use?
Also, get yourself a good test kit (lab grade) to test your own water.
ps. When I first started my aquarium, I had a problem with low ph, it more or less corrected itself over a short amount of time.
Also those strip test you LFS used are garbage!
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi, welcome to the site...sorry to see all the trouble you're having.
Since you already have found out for yourself, and told by GeriDoc...do not ask the LFS for advice or help with anything. Go into the store knowing what you want or need. How do you determine what you want or need......Big Sigh...a beginners book would have helped you so much. It would explain about the cycle, the equipment, and what it does, and why it's needed. It would explain about test kits and quarantine tanks.
Your biggest problem is that you have a 14g tank, which IMO is expert only size. The smaller the tank, the harder it is to keep stable, and when it comes to SW, stability is everything.
I know most beginners think they will try a small tank to "get their feet wet" and see how they like it. Well the larger tanks have wiggle room for error that tiny tanks don't. Few people are able to play expert from the get go.
All that being said...PLEASE, do not listen to the LFS, and stop asking for their help...sand is better then crushed coral. Almost everyone on the site had CC to start and switched to sand, me included.
Lab type test kits, not strips are needed. Now for your very next purchase. Get a book titled "The conscientious aquarist" By Robert Fenner and or a book called "Saltwater aquariums for dummy's" Seriously consider a larger tank, 55g to 75g is best, but at least try a 30g, use the tiny tank for a quarantine, or perhaps it's better suited as a bucket to hold mixing water.
Even if you keep your tiny tank, the only thing you can keep in it is a tiny little nano size fish 1/2 inch size, just one little fish, a couple of snails, and maybe a tiny shrimp... at that it will be maxed out, and you shouldn't add anything else. Hardly worth all that hassle to keep it stable.
 
cl72

cl72

New Member
The first LFS works with the local university for marine biology program and they are also the in charge for mystic aquarium and a few other major aquariums in the city hence I started with them.
It was a 20lb bag of arag alive sand with water in it and a little bag of something to add with it. 10lbs of live rocks and ro saltwater from the LFS and I just leave the tank to cycle with 10 hrs of blue light and 8 hrs of daylight of course with the pump on.
I don't plan to add anything other than a yellow watchman goby and his shrimp. I understand about the small nano tank issue that's why I am doing it slowly and seeking advices from experience like you guys.
I read about the Carbon dioxide in the room, the tank has a cover, I was wondering if leaving the feeding flap open would help ?
What kind of lab grade test kit should I buy, please advice.
The 2nd LFS says I have nothing in the tank to help buffer hence the low PH. I told him I used live sand and he says crushed coral is best.... I was stupid enough to go against my belief to add 2 lbs of crushed coral in. And I also added in a PH buffer.
You are right , my nassarius snails really don't like it. Can I get rid of the crushed coral now?
I didn't have an ammonia spike, last week the bottle test kits showed a little ammonia but this week it showed 0. Does it count?
I have a book for beginner saltwater, and I have been reading on all the forums, I just wants to do things the right way so I am sorry I am so long winded
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl72 http:///t/396275/totally-confused-with-new-tank-help-please#post_3530275
The first LFS works with the local university for marine biology program and they are also the in charge for mystic aquarium and a few other major aquariums in the city hence I started with them.
It was a 20lb bag of arag alive sand with water in it and a little bag of something to add with it. 10lbs of live rocks and ro saltwater from the LFS and I just leave the tank to cycle with 10 hrs of blue light and 8 hrs of daylight of course with the pump on.
I don't plan to add anything other than a yellow watchman goby and his shrimp. I understand about the small nano tank issue that's why I am doing it slowly and seeking advices from experience like you guys.
I read about the Carbon dioxide in the room, the tank has a cover, I was wondering if leaving the feeding flap open would help ?
What kind of lab grade test kit should I buy, please advice.
The 2nd LFS says I have nothing in the tank to help buffer hence the low PH. I told him I used live sand and he says crushed coral is best.... I was stupid enough to go against my belief to add 2 lbs of crushed coral in. And I also added in a PH buffer.
You are right , my nassarius snails really don't like it. Can I get rid of the crushed coral now?
I didn't have an ammonia spike, last week the bottle test kits showed a little ammonia but this week it showed 0. Does it count?
I have a book for beginner saltwater, and I have been reading on all the forums, I just wants to do things the right way so I am sorry I am so long winded
LOL..."Long winded" is fine by me, I top the charts in that area.
99% of LFS are places such as big chain stores like *****, Smartpets, and Petland. The 2nd LFS you asked gave you the advice to add CC...so I stand by my #1 rule still. If you have access to marine biologists, why would you consider us experts, or bother to go to a 2nd LFS?
Anyway, you can remove the CC, your tank is way to young to have any toxins built up to concern yourself with it stirring up. Saltwater has less oxygen then freshwater, so remove the top altogether if you can, if all you can do with a biocube is the feeding flap, remove it. Have some kind of little nano power head to create a wave and move the surface. The wave is the life of the ocean, and our SW tanks, no matter the size.
I personally use Seachem test kits, Instant Ocean and Salifert also are good ones. Don't get API kits, they are no longer reliable. Master/multi kits are cheaper to get then each test individually. With live rock and infused good bacteria in the aragonite sand most likely meant no traceable ammonia for the cycle.
When I cycle a tank, after I get everything down to a 0 reading for the first time, I ghost feed an invisible fish for one more week, and then I retest the major three, ammonia, nitrite and nitrates...if the first two are still at 0, then I do a small water change to be rid of nitrates and add the first fish...in your case, the goby.
 
cl72

cl72

New Member
Yeah ghost feed. That was what the first LFS told me to do, he says something like throw in a little tiny bits of brine shrimp and its exciting to see the nassarius actually getting out of the sand even though I don't think they eat it?
Ok removing the cc. It's a very very thin
Layer of it on top of the live sand, does it really matter? If by removing it, how? Do I make mysel sound more retarded by asking can I stir the sand bed to see if I ended up burying my nassarius snails cos I only see one since yesterday .
As for why a nano tank. I have this biocube 14 and had freshwater fish in there. I have two special needs boys and very often when I am suffocated with the stress,I sit hours in front of the mystic aquarium rather than at a therapist office and I find the healing power to regain my sanity from the soothing effect. So I thought to have a small piece of ocean by my bed, it probably could bring me the effect, so far its working by just looking at the snails and laughing watching the hermit crab switching from one shell to next.
Sorry, ranting again.
 
cl72

cl72

New Member
Seachem marine basic multi test kit is ok? I hope it's design for dummy to understand lol
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl72 http:///t/396275/totally-confused-with-new-tank-help-please#post_3530282
Seachem marine basic multi test kit is ok? I hope it's design for dummy to understand lol
LOL...LOL...LOL
I am the most clueless when it comes to tech stuff, believe me, it's a very simple test kit. Seachem requires the least amount of fish water for testing, it comes with an eyedropper gadget for the perfect measure, and even has pictures besides the written instructions.
The marine basic is just fine for starting out, if you decide to keep corals you should also invest in the Reef multi kit, I use both. The marine basic does not have a Phosphates test and the Reef doesn't have ammonia and nitrite tests...I combined them all in the same box for putting in my keeper shelf, and am relying on memory (which isn't so sharp anymore) as to which tests came with what multi kit.
 
cl72

cl72

New Member
Oh no. No coral, I am not going to take any bite more than just a goby and shrimp tank.
I am already a major nerve rack dealing with this ph thing.
I am going to go see if I can get the test kit at the LFS. I know the 2nd one uses sera brand.
 
cl72

cl72

New Member
Flower
Thanks for your patience. And can you tell me it I could just leave the cc there but stir it to find my nassarius snails?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl72 http:///t/396275/totally-confused-with-new-tank-help-please#post_3530287
Flower
Thanks for your patience. And can you tell me it I could just leave the cc there but stir it to find my nassarius snails?
Nassarius snails are meat eaters, and bury in the sand, leaving what looks like a little "breather tube" poking out. There is no reason to look for them. I personally would remove the CC only because it's a pain in the rump to keep clean, and the CUC (Clean UP Crew) critters have a hard time doing their job on it. I don't like to vacuum the substrate, I have enough work to do.
LOL... If you want to "find" the snails, feed the fish, they will come out of hiding to eat. Nassarious are not algae eaters, their job is to gobble up any food the fish miss, and when they bury themselves in the substrate they stir it so toxins won't get trapped in it. They do their job very well. Nerite, Cerith and Turbos to name a few snails that are algae eaters. You see them out all the time on the glass and such. Also if you have moonlights you can see them all over, including any shrimp. The night life in a SW tank is pretty awesome to watch, it's whole different world in there at night.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by cl72 http:///t/396275/totally-confused-with-new-tank-help-please#post_3530302
I tested the ph again and its 7.5.
Dummy question again, how to remove the cc?

I don't know, I had all crushed coral, then removed it, and put sand in...it wasn't a mix. If you can find a strainer that would allow the sand to pass but not the CC??? Somehow that just seems impossible. Maybe remove all of it and rub your hands over a bowl catching the sand and putting the CC to the side...????
Maybe you could just live with it the way it is.
 
michaelkelley

michaelkelley

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/396275/totally-confused-with-new-tank-help-please#post_3530267
So now you know why Flower on this site says to never go to a local LFS for advice. Now to specific issues:
1. How did you cycle the tank? Live sand may produce a "soft" cycle, but not reliably. You need a source of ammonium to cycle.
2. Don't trust instruments that measure pH unless you see it being standardized using a known pH buffer prior to measuring your sample. In hobbyist hands I usually find the colorimetric kits to be accurate enough. The fluctuating pH could be the result of many factors. Before I discuss those, I want you to understand that a 14 gallon nano is going to be less stable than a larger system. So what can change pH? Carbon dioxide is the most common culprit. This is produced during the dark phase of photosynthesis, so all tanks are a little more acidic in the morning after an overnight dark period. CO2 is vented off at the water's surface, so adequate surface turnover/agitation is very important. Marine tanks should not have a glass canopy which interferes with gas exchange,, and power heads should be used to produce surface flow.
3. If you saw an ammonium spike, then your tank is probably cycled, and you can add one fish.
4. Do not change to crushed coral - it is more difficult to maintain. Sand is fine (pun intended)!
Nice piece of advice.
 
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