Unhealthy Soft Corals - HELP!

[trippclark]

I've been having challenges lately with my Calcium levels and my CA and KH have gotten out of balance. My readings were as low as 320 on CA and as high as 15 on KH. Other water parameters were okay. I stepped up water changes the past 3 weeks to what basically averages out to about a 5% water change every 2 - 3 days. In all, I have "changed" about 45 gallons, bringing the KH down to 8 and by using Tropic Marin Biocalcium have raised CA to now 400. Most of the CA increase has been in the past week, raising from 340 to 400 since Friday (after noticing that my Instant Ocean mix was only at 330). All other parameters seem fine . . . temps 79 F, SG 1.025, PH 8.1 - 8.2, Phosphates 0, Nitrates/Nitrites/Amonia all 0.
During this time, my soft corals have look horrible. I have zoos (brown and green eyed), yellow polyps, ricordia, and green star polyps. The green star polyps look great, but all of the others have been retracted all during this process and a few of the zoos (very few) appear to be dead.
I am hoping that the coral problems were caused by the low CA/high KH and that soon I will start to rebound. Is this plausible? How much time is this likely to take? Are there other likely causes that I should check?
Other tank inhabitants include 1 percula clown, 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 peppermint shrimp, 1 brittle star, and a few snails and hermits.
By the way, I also had an inordinant number of snail deaths during this period and need to boost up my cleaning crew but am hesitant to do this just yet until the corals start to look better reassuring me that things are back to "normal"

 

[rappa]

What were you supplementing for KH and Calc???

 

[trippclark]

Tropic Marin Bio Calcium, Kent Pro Buffer dKH, and occasionally Seachem Marine Buffer

 

[trippclark]

While cruising around other threads in this form I might have hit on the problem with my corals. As mentioed in my earlier post at top of this thread, my cleaning crew has dropped off to where I now have just 2 snails and 3-4 hermits -- not near enough. I have not replinished my crew in about 18 months. I don't know what normal attrition is for hermits and snails, but I typically need to add a few of each every few months and have neglected to do this recently. Anyway, in spite of near zero levels of nitrites/nitrates and phosphates, I still have much more algae that normal simply because my cleaning crew is so low. Another thread mentioned that zoos are very sensitive to algae. If this is also true of Ricordia and yellow polyps, but not so of green star polyps, then this may be my issue . . . time to beef up the cleaning crew! Anyone with any insight on this (how algae impacts these other soft corals)? It would be great if the answer is that simple.
Thanks!

 

[trippclark]

Bump

 

[trippclark]

I'd really appreciate some guidance or advice if anyone has any idea on this. Today corals look worse -- except green star polyps which still look great.
I found my brittle star badly eaten by hermits and coral banded shrimp today. This star has been in the tank doing well for almost 3 years. Now all but half of one leg is gone! I pulled him out and placed him in the sump.
Every test that I try on water shows no problems now (see above), yet these problems persist, algae is the worst it has been since before I switched to RO water, and all corals except green star polyps are retracted.
I am prepared to add snails and hermits tomorrow, if the algae alone is the problem, but don't want to add them -- only to have them die -- if this is not the problem. Even with the very small crew that I have now, I still do not understand why there is so much algae when I am using RO water and have off the scale low (near or at 0) Phosphate, Nitrate, and Nitrite. It defies logic!!!

 

[trippclark]

Oh, one more thing. KH jumped up again. I am not sure why. It was down to 8 just 3 days ago, then yesterday it jumped up to 15 again! CA is still at 400. I have only added the Tropic marin Bio Calcium, no KH buffer. Top off water is RO/DI.

 

[tizzo]

Where in SC are you??
Algae can be caused by many factors that we cannot test for or do not have the equipment to test. ie, old membranes in your RO unit, old lights, sunlight hitting the tank...
But whatever is causing your algae would not kill your corals, not if your tests are as you say they are... You have stopped adding the buffers right?? Cause those are the reasons for your high alk which tilts the scale and causes low calcium.
Raising calcium in your tank is OK as long as it is not done quickly. Raising it quickly will harm a star and stress corals.

 

[tizzo]

I am wondering about your test kits now...
What's your PH last time you checked?? Oh, and when was that?

 

[trippclark]

I am in Lugoff, SC . . . about 25 miles east of Columbia.
2 lights were replaced in October and the other 2 in November, so they are fairly fresh. They are 48" VHO bulbs Actinic and Actinic Blue (2 each). All filters in the RO unit were replaced in November also. It is an Air Water Ice Reefkeeper RO unit and the new cartridges came from Air Water Ice.
YES, no buffers added for the past 2 weeks or so. Last added at that time was the Seachem Marine Buffer because PH was reading at 8.0. It was proably a mistake to add it, but I have changed probably 50% or more water since then.
No direct sunlight hits the tank where it is located.
I just checked PH 5 minutes ago and it is 8.0, a bit lower than I like, but the marine buffer is what I use to raise it and I do not dare add that now.
The last time I compared my test results against the LFS, my kits were reading the same as theirs, but that has been a few months ago.
Thanks for the help!!

 

[trippclark]

You said, "Raising it quickly will harm a star and stress corals."
Earlier this week CA did jump quicker than I expected . . . from 340 to 400 in 36 or 48 hours. Is that quick enough to cause these stress problems with star and corals? Would it impact them 3 or 4 days later?

 

[hagfish]

Algae needs phosphates and/or nitrates to grow, plus light. No doubt you have the light. If you have algae, you also have one or both of nitrates and phosphates. No matter what your test tells you. What you have to realize is that the algae can consume the nitrates/phosphates before you test for them. So bottom line is, you need to reduce nutrients in your system. Now you just have to figure out where those nutrients are coming from.
What brand of test kits are you using?
What kind of algae are you dealing with?
One thing that can help to remove some algae and really get some gunk off of your rocks is to take a few rocks that don't have any corals or obvious desired life on them and when you do a water change put them in your bucket of old water and scrub them with a toothbrush. If you have hair algae, this will remove it better than just about anything in a short period of time. Plus this will get rid of some detritus and leftover junk that can add to nutrients.

 

[trippclark]

Thanks Hagfish, for the feedback.
You said, "If you have algae, you also have one or both of nitrates and phosphates. No matter what your test tells you. What you have to realize is that the algae can consume the nitrates/phosphates before you test for them. So bottom line is, you need to reduce nutrients in your system. Now you just have to figure out where those nutrients are coming from."
I agree 100% with this.
You asked, "What brand of test kits are you using?"
Several. For pH, KH, Nitrite I am using Tetra kits. I am using Sera kits for CA and Phosphate. I also am using a Seatest CA kit for verification. These rarely read exactly the same but are always within 20+/- of each other. For low-range Nitrate, I am using SeaTest. For SG I am using a refractometer purchased from saltwaterfish.com.
You asked, "What kind of algae are you dealing with?"
Brown hair algae is the problem. It is all over the glass and somewhat on the rocks. It is the worse it has ever been since I switched to RO water almost 3 years ago. I have also had a significant spreading recently of money plant in my main tank. I've been trimming it back every couple of weeks. Caulpera in my fuge has also been growing like wide and must be thinned regularly.

 

[hagfish]

As for test kits, I am now a huge fan of Salifert even though it took me a while to give into the higher price. But my other kits were reading zero nitrates almost since my cycle was over and I get the salifert test kit and it says 50! That explains a few mystery deaths anyway.
Please answer the following so we know what your setup is.
Tank size (and fuge)?
What is your substrate?
livestock list?
flow?
skimmer?

 

[trippclark]

Thanks alot Hagfish. My LFS does not stock Salifert, so my reason for not having them is simply availability and convenience. I have heard good thins though about them. Perhaps I need to search for an online source. That should not be hard. I'll plan to do this.
Tank size (and fuge)?
55 gallon tank with a rubbermaid sump (probably 8 gallons of water in a 15 gallon container) and a very small rubbermaid fuge (about 3 gallons - maybe 4).
What is your substrate?
Live sand . . . in place about 8 - 10 years.
livestock list?
Percula clown (only fish) . . . firefish died about a month ago
Soft corals as listed earlier in the thread (all are retracted except green star polyps which appear to be great)
Coral banded shrimp
3 or 4 hermits
2 astrea snails
I am currently acclimating additional snails and hermits purchased from saltwaterfish.com to introduce to work on algae problem.
flow?
I have a Rio 2100 returning from the sump (692 GPH). In the tank, I have three additional powerheads. One is a Hagen Aquaclear 50 (270 GPH), one is a Eheim Aquaball (172 GPH), and the third is a VisiJet (I think it is approx 200 GPH but cannot find rating).
skimmer?
Yes, I have a Sealife Systems skimmer pushed by a Rio 600 pump.

 

[trippclark]

The salifert phosphate test kit on this site is on backorder. I have put myself on the notification list for when it comes back in stock. I'll get the phosphate and nitrate kits immediately and then replace others as my current kits run out.
In expectation that I must have some excessive organics, in spite of my tests to the contrary, I just put a new poly filter in my sump under the return flow for my skimmer. Hopefully that will suck out some of the organics. I will also get a chemi-pure pack ASAP for the same purpose.
I'll also continue with 2 - 4 gallon wanter changes daily.
Good plan?? Any other ideas/suggestions? I feel like I am in a race to try to save the corals. I wish I knew how long they would live etracted and/or how quickly or slowly they will rebound once the water is where they like it.

 

[tizzo]

Am I gonna hafta plan a road trip this Sunday??

From all of your answers, your right, it defies logic.
Since this is from 2 days ago, I forgot if you mentioned... What is your filtration again??

 

[mbowker]

Eight years old?? Maybe this is causing a crash? build of of gases and not exchanging them .. Any flow agitating the water to the top of the tank? Just a thought!

 

[trippclark]

Thanks Tizzo. You'd be welcome anytime!
Filtration is the protein skimmer in the sump and the refugium. I also contantly keep a polyfilter in the sump located where the skimmer expels water onto it. I change these out when they get brown . . . usually monthly or so. No other filtration (and never have had, except for a hang on Whisper 3 about 12 years ago!).
Okay, I introduced a new cleaning crew today. This may or may not have been a good idea.
20 scarlet hermits
10 nassarius snails
25 astrea snails
7 small peppermint shrimp
3 emerald crabs
I am hopeful that the snails and crabs will mow through the algae (or is it brown cyano bacteria . . . definitely not red)
Going through the process today I also found and addressed a couple of other issues.
1) I have filter sponges on two of the three powerheads creating flow in my tank. I found that these were loaded with algae/cyano and detris . . . so much so that flow was severely reduced. I cleaned both of these in water that I took from the tank and returned these to the powerhead . . . big increase in flow.
2) I noticed that my temp was dropping to 76 degrees before lights on, rising to 80 degrees after a few hours of light. I had one 200W heater in the sump. It was heavily covered with calcium growths. I soaked this in vinegar and removed the calcium, then tested to be sure it was still working properly, then returned it to the sump, set at 79 degrees. I also purchased and added a second heater to the sump (300W) also set at 79 degrees.
3) I siphoned off as much of the algae/cyano from the back glass as I could in 2.5 gallons of siphoning and then replaced with the remaining prepared seawater. I am now out of seawater so I am making another 15 gallons of RO/DI water tonight, but it will take a few days to age/mix and be ready.
4) I pulled out and threw away LOTS of money plant which had been growing like wild. Reading other threads today this was identified as a calcium hog and, I thought, might be part of my problem with keeping CA up lately. Of course, I am sure the stuff will continue to come back!

 

[trippclark]

Originally Posted by MBowker
Eight years old?? Maybe this is causing a crash? build of of gases and not exchanging them .. Any flow agitating the water to the top of the tank? Just a thought!
I feel like I have pretty good flow on top. I have a visijet set right at water level that keeps a pretty good ripple across the top.
Yes, the tank has been up for a long time. Three years ago I went from a fish only tank and over the next few months added VHO lighting, RO/DI water, inverts, corals, etc. After the initial challenges one would expect, things have been going pretty well until now.