Ureka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rykna

Active Member
A vital discovery!!! Well at least for me. Panacur can be used in your DT, use with care of course. There is a list of tank occupants that will not survive the use on Panacur in the DT. However, it will destroy all the parasitic worms, aiptasia, and many other unwanted evil pests that lurk in your tank.

Fenbendazole (Panacur)
Fenbendazole (brand name of Panacur) is an inexpensive anthelmintic agent (dewormer) used for large animals such as horses, and the de- worming granules can be obtained without a prescription from stores that carry agricultural products (e.g., farm and ranch equipment, farming supplies and products, veterinary supplies, livestock and horse supplies, livestock and horse feed). The granular form of fenbendazole (horse dewormer granules 22.2%) is preferable to the paste for aquarium use, as the dosage of the granules is easier to regulate. It is available in packets of 5.2 grams or 0.18 ounces.
Fenbendazole is very useful for debugging live rock (LR) and eradicating bristleworms, hydroids and Aiptasia rock anemones. Because fenbendazole is essentially a de-worming agent, it will destroy any bristleworms, flat worms, spaghetti worms or the like. The FBZ or Panacur treatments are thus best administered to the live rock in a bucket or hospital tank before the LR is introduced in the main tank. Otherwise, the massive die-off of the worm population in the aquarium may require large water changes in order to prevent a dangerous ammonia spike!
Fenbendazole does not have any adverse effects on biological filtration, but be aware that it is death to many Cnidarians besides hydroids and Aiptasia. Mushrooms and related corals are generally not affected, but expect it to have dire effects on other corals (e.g., sinularias), polyps, gorgonians, and anemones. In general, any Cnidarians with polyps that resemble the stalked family of Hydrozoans are likely to be hit hard by fenbendazole, so don't use this treatment in a reef tank!
Also be aware that fenbendazole seems to soak into the porous live rock and be absorbed indefinitely. I know one hobbyist who transferred a small piece of live rock that had been treated with fenbendazole (Panacur) months earlier into a reef tank, where it killed the resident starfish and Astrea snails. So enough of the medication may be retained within treated live rock to impact sensitive animals months after the fenbendazole was administered. Don't treat live rock intended for reef systems with fenbendazole (Panacur)!
At the lower dosage recommended for nursery tanks (1/16 tsp. Per 10 gallons), fenbendazole normally does not harm cleaner shrimp and decorative shrimp. With the exception of Astrids (Astrea), Coit and Worden have found it does not usually affect the types of snails typically used as cleanup crews (e.g., Nassarius, Ceriths, and Nerites). It will kill starfish but copepods, hermit crabs, and shrimp are normally not affected.
Macroalgae such as the feathery or long-bladed varieties of Caulerpa or Hawaiian Ogo (Gracilaria) are not harmed by exposure to fenbendazole at even triple the normal dose. In fact, if you will be using Caulerpa in your nursery tanks to provide hitching posts for the fry and serve as a form of natural filtration, it's a very wise precaution indeed to treat them with a regimen of fenbendazole beforehand.
So fenbendazole (FBZ) or Panacur is primarily useful for ridding bare- bottomed nursery tanks and dwarf seahorses setups of hydroids and Aiptasia anemones, ridding Caulerpa and other macroalge of hydroids or Aiptasia before its goes into the aquarium, and cleansing live rock of bristleworms, hydroids, and Aiptasia rock anemones before it is introduced to the aquarium. If you are serious about raising seahorse fry, fenbendazole is must-have med for keeping your nurseries hydroid free.
It can also be used to eradicate bristleworms, hydroids, an Aiptasia from an established aquarium if it does not house sensitive animals such as live corals and gorgonians, starfish, Astrea snails, or tubeworms and other desirable worms that may be harmed by FBZ, providing you monitor the ammonia levels closely and are prepared to deal with the ammonia spike that may result from the sudden death of the worm population.
Rykna
 

jmick

Active Member
It will also destroy the biodiveristy in your tank and you'd have to be a fool to treat with it. I certainly hope no one treats their tank with it based on the poor advise you have given.
 

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
It will also destroy the biodiveristy in your tank and you'd have to be a fool to treat with it. I certainly hope no one treats their tank with it based on the poor advise you have given.
Very true...let me revise what type of tank I am applying this application to:
Seahorses only
Narsisus snails
No live rock
No live sand- my 29 gallon sand bed was bleached and dead when I started my new seahorse tank 2 months ago. Recently I have added some pods, which in small doses, Panacur will not harm you bio bugs, and a few other tank mates that are mentioned.. However, as Jmick mentioned, this is a very dangerous/and potential tank crash situation.
What I should have stated is:
This DT Pancur treament I am recommending is ONLY for seahorse tanks that do not already have LR, LS, coral, and basically anything that would be in a reef tank! .
Water quality must be tested frequently. Especially monitor the ammonia levels closely and are prepared to deal with the ammonia spike that may result from the sudden death of the worm/pod population. This treatment will minimize or destroy any existing clean up crew, especially in a reef tank type of set up. There are no garuntees that any pods, snails, etc, will survive.
This treatment is a aggressive treatment for one purpose only. To rid your seahorse tank of all parasites that may/will claim the lives of your seahorses. Fenbendazole is very useful for debugging live rock (LR) and eradicating bristleworms, hydroids and Aiptasia rock anemones. Because Panacur is essentially a de-worming agent, it will destroy any bristleworms, flat worms, cnidarians, spaghetti worms or the like. The FBZ or Panacur treatments are thus best administered to the live rock in a bucket or hospital tank before the LR is introduced in the main tank. Otherwise, the massive die-off of the worm population in the aquarium may require large water changes in order to prevent a dangerous ammonia spike.
Because of my past experiences with such pests as aiptasia, I am recommending this treatment to a SODT(seahorse only display tank).
So as Jmick stated, and very wisely(ty Jmick)"It will destroy the biodiverisity in your tank."So do not proceed with this treatment to you DT, unless you have a DT that is completely void of anything alive other than the seahorses, plants, and a few other creatures that are listed.
I am choosing to treat my SODT because I have over 20 seahorses.
~Rykna
 

ophiura

Active Member
Please stop cutting and pasting information from other sites!
There is no reason this thread had to amount to that. It could ask for experience with Panacur, it could say "google Panacur" etc. But it is inappropriate to pass of other people's information.
This is not ideal, I know, but it is what we ask. They are the ground rules, as you are aware...limitation or not. Even I sometimes don't like it...but this is someone else's research being provided without their permission, citation, etc.
Please abide by these rules.
Thanks
 

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
Please stop cutting and pasting information from other sites!
There is no reason this thread had to amount to that. It could ask for experience with Panacur, it could say "google Panacur" etc. But it is inappropriate to pass of other people's information.
This is not ideal, I know, but it is what we ask. They are the ground rules, as you are aware...limitation or not. Even I sometimes don't like it...but this is someone else's research being provided without their permission, citation, etc.
Please abide by these rules.
Thanks

Gotcha
So posting problem set aside...what would your opinion be on addid theis med to a DT?
 

ophiura

Active Member
I personally would not add something like that to a DT. Are all of your animals showing signs of a problem?
I mean, it is a major major treatment. I prefer to see it used in QT.
 

rykna

Active Member
This information which I have used, is posted on a website, that gives viewers free use of their information. I am not in any way committing plagarism or claiming that I have written this. I find SWF unwillingness to share other sites information very selfish and self defeating.
~I also know that as monitors you must report as instructed.
That set aside I'd like to point out that many, many sites that sell inventory identical to SWF post links to this sit for further options and information. It is very disapointing to me that this Forum site is unwilling to aid it's members through other internet resources. I hope for the future of SWF members and their tanks, and success there of, SWF will be able to over come their close minded views.
 

jmick

Active Member
Instead of cutting and pasting why don't you summarize and put the info into your own words or at least give credit that it's not your original info. I do look into this part of the forum from time to time because I find it interesting and it seems at least half of what you add here is cut and pasted from other sites.
 

ophiura

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rykna
This information which I have used, is posted on a website, that gives viewers free use of their information. I am not in any way committing plagarism or claiming that I have written this. I find SWF unwillingness to share other sites information very selfish and self defeating.
~I also know that as monitors you must report as instructed.
That set aside I'd like to point out that many, many sites that sell inventory identical to SWF post links to this sit for further options and information. It is very disapointing to me that this Forum site is unwilling to aid it's members through other internet resources. I hope for the future of SWF members and their tanks, and success there of, SWF will be able to over come their close minded views.

Rykna, plenty of folks on all the other forums can exchange information while considering and abiding by this restriction. It is not ideal, but it is what we ask. Please respect it.
To imply this site is closed minded and unwilling to assist its members is downright insulting, as they have for years (well before the "bloom" of forums) allowed people a forum on which to exchange ideas, including allowing people to say "don't buy that" when they sell it. I take that personally.
In time this may change, but it is what is asked at this time.
 

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
Instead of cutting and pasting why don't you summarize and put the info into your own words or at least give credit that it's not your original info. I do look into this part of the forum from time to time because I find it interesting and it seems at least half of what you add here is cut and pasted from other sites.
Very true, but I have never taken credit for it. I have also been reprimanded for posting articles in which I very clearly posted the name of the author. After many times of following the monitors requests it has become very obvious to me that the problem, in my humble opinion, is not the copied information, but the narcissism of SWF to post any information that does not come exclusively from SWF. And that is out of my hands.
 

ophiura

Active Member
The reality is that cutting and pasting from others should, and easily can, be kept to a minimum. It is just not right to do that frequently and in this case it is VERY frequent. IMO, a couple of lines with the author cited is not an issue (that is me) but when it is very frequent, and basically whole articles, it is a problem IMO.
When you find scientific articles, most info is paraphrased and the originator of the idea is cited. RARELY are entire paragraphs cited verbatim...and if it is basically the primary MO of the author? The paper would be rejected. I reviewed a paper that was mostly cut and pasted from someone else (in this case due to language issues) and I rejected it as unacceptable.
It is easy enough to learn information and summarize it in your own way. The overwhelming majority of people here do that. Its hard to figure out Rykna, why that is SUCH an issue here. It is not "narcissism" on the part of SWF...because there are many other forums on SWF where ideas and information are freely exchanged without needing to cut and paste the large percentage of it. To be honest, when we see this pattern and especially when some repeatedly does it even after the request not too...it is a big concern.
I have often run into issues myself, and so have become rather proficient at figuring out the terms people need to google in order to find the article.
Here is what you could EASILY have posted:
"I have been reading about the use of Panacur in aquariums. It is often used as a dewormer and general parasite treatment. I think I may be able to use this in my seahorse system because I have no LR, LS or other invertebrates. Does anyone have experience with this? I have done some research (Googled "Panacur Seahorses"), and I think that it will be OK. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts?"
To which Jmick would likely have given a replied as well...
Your passion has always been your strength Rykna, and what many find appealing. You really don't need to do this to share information, because you can easily encourage people to participate.
 

rykna

Active Member

Originally Posted by ophiura
Rykna, plenty of folks on all the other forums can exchange information while considering and abiding by this restriction. It is not ideal, but it is what we ask. Please respect it.
To imply this site is closed minded and unwilling to assist its members is downright insulting, as they have for years (well before the "bloom" of forums) allowed people a forum on which to exchange ideas, including allowing people to say "don't buy that" when they sell it. I take that personally.
In time this may change, but it is what is asked at this time.
Insulting? Insulting??? You are accusing me of plagiarism! I have followed this forum's posting terms, only to have them changed..again and again.
Yes we can share ideas here, however, information posted is, monitored, edited(with out permission: Which is plagerism
, and locked with out any discussion with the author of the Thread.
 

ophiura

Active Member
We are asking one thing, Rykna. To share your experiences and research in your own words, and to continue to encourage the sharing of that information in a constructive way. You do much of this already, but we ask that you not do so much cutting and pasting of articles from other sites, which unfortunately constitutes a large percentage of your posts at this time and is totally unnecessary.
I hope we can agree on this because your passion is valued, and frankly is much of the reason this seahorse forum came to exist.

I will tell you that at one point I left SWF with similar concerns, and I went off to several other boards. I ultimately left them because there was something here which was, and still is, attractive to me. It is very much the freedom, and the community, which you may laugh at but IME is true. There are threads here that wouldn't see the light of day elsewhere. In order to come back, I had to accept certain restrictions...and develop my skills at cleverly directing people to information instead of just cutting and pasting it or linking to it. Most often this is done just by understanding something well enough to paraphrase it.
BTW EVERY board monitors, edits and locks posts - that is part of the deal on these internet forums...and why blogs have become very popular
 

fishygurl

Active Member
Ok for this worm thing, it kills good and bad worms? So if i were to buy my live rock for my 125 and decided to use this it would kill all the worms? but wouldnt the rock soak in this product and once it is a reef, while the rock erodes or breaks down or whatever and releases this product wouldnt it kill the stuff i wanted?
If so, this is only for tanks that will never be a reef, right? If so if people get mad or decide to quit this hobby and sell the live rock to other people then they would get the rock that could potentially kill their corals or inverts?
And umm... stupid question but what the heck is narcissism???
 

fishygurl

Active Member
and wont a ton of salt mixed in a bucket of ro water, and dumping each rock in for a couple minutes, let the worms come out, along with mantis, and other stuff?
And would this also keep the good stuff alive on the rock or would they jump off too?
 

ophiura

Active Member
FishyGurl -
Yup, the medication does not "know" good versus bad...it makes no distinction. It would kill them all. But in general it is used to kill parasitic (in particular intestinal) worms. Very commonly used for dogs and cats for example.
In this regard it is not really comparable to what you are describing, which is to remove perhaps unwanted bristleworms and such from LR. In this case, the particularly salty (or fresh) water is often used. But yes, it will also kill good as well as bad, though without long term risk to the rock itself.
 

monalisa

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
Your passion has always been your strength Rykna, and what many find appealing. You really don't need to do this to share information, because you can easily encourage people to participate.
I think that what ophiura is stating here, is that all you need to do is speak from your heart and from your experience...you don't need to be cutting and pasting all the scientific jargon and lingo that is hard to understand (especially to those looking to set up a new sh tank)...say what you think and post it...point blank.
Lisa
 

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by MonaLisa
I think that what ophiura is stating here, is that all you need to do is speak from your heart and from your experience...you don't need to be cutting and pasting all the scientific jargon and lingo that is hard to understand (especially to those looking to set up a new sh tank)...say what you think and post it...point blank.
Lisa
Very true,
Thank you,
Rykna
 

rykna

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
We are asking one thing, Rykna. To share your experiences and research in your own words, and to continue to encourage the sharing of that information in a constructive way. You do much of this already, but we ask that you not do so much cutting and pasting of articles from other sites, which unfortunately constitutes a large percentage of your posts at this time and is totally unnecessary.
I hope we can agree on this because your passion is valued, and frankly is much of the reason this seahorse forum came to exist.
I will tell you that at one point I left SWF with similar concerns, and I went off to several other boards. I ultimately left them because there was something here which was, and still is, attractive to me. It is very much the freedom, and the community, which you may laugh at but IME is true. There are threads here that wouldn't see the light of day elsewhere. In order to come back, I had to accept certain restrictions...and develop my skills at cleverly directing people to information instead of just cutting and pasting it or linking to it. Most often this is done just by understanding something well enough to paraphrase it.
BTW EVERY board monitors, edits and locks posts - that is part of the deal on these internet forums...and why blogs have become very popular

You're absolutely right...I'm glad you pointed that out. I guess I've just gotten spoiled after settling into the SWF Forum community. What I should be doing is bending over backwards in appreciation for the freedom of speech we have here.
And as you have noticed, my ability to "compact" 3 pages of information into a paragraph is lacking...you would laugh if you looked at my college text books. Many classes instruct students to highlight the main topics(or what we deem most important) in a chapter. I would have saved myself a lot of time if I had just high lighted the entire book on the first day of class. At least the florescent yellow makes for easier reading.
Your passion has always been your strength Rykna, and what many find appealing. You really don't need to do this to share information, because you can easily encourage people to participate.

Thank you Ophira, that is the nicest, most heart felt, compliment I have ever received. If I did receive such a compliment, I wasn't listening. But you certainly are.
Thank you for taking the time to listen,
Rykna
 

matt b

Active Member
ok now we all know the rykna is a beast when it comes to swahorses and knows so so so much about them but why cant she share something she found on another site thats really good info maybe im missing something.
 
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