very happy

[drkegel]

I just put in two litte clowns and two little blue damels last night, after letting my tank filter run for about 10 days post set-up. It's not done cycling yet, and three of the fish seem to be happy, swimming around vigrously and investigating their new home. The one damel however, just hides beneath a fake castle I have in their for structure and won't come out, which is a shame, because he has such great color to him. Do damsles typically hide out for a while until they are used to their new surroundings?
Another question: I want to take out the fake castle thing and put in live rock. Is it safe to do that while the tank is still cycling? My LFS didn't seem to think so, but other people (on here and elsewhere) say it's OK. My LFS has some beautiful looking live rock that I would love to get in my tank. It's a 55-gal tank, with CC substrate. If I do get LR, do I need to get a protein skimmer??
Thanks!

 

[twoods71]

All fish have diferent personalities and it is not unusual for a fish to hide out for a few days.
As far as the rock goes I started my tank with live rock and in my opinion will speed up the whole cycling process because on cured LR the bacteria to break down ammonia and nitrite is already present.
As far as the skimmer goes in a FOWLR I dont think you need a skimmer (assuming you have other means of filtration) but it wouldnt hurt either. If you are going to go reef in the future then a skimmer is highly recommended.

 

[jacrmill]

man i think youve made a big mistake. you just added a bunch of fish before your cycle was done? and you think that was ok, but your worried about adding LR during your cycle? man youre backwards a little bit. adding LR during your cycle is a good thing, as stated it will speed up your cycle because it already has beneficial bacteria on it. as for adding 4 fish during your cycle, thats the worst thing you can do! if i were you id try to take them back, let your cycle finish and go from there. and i would strongly recommend a skimmer. i too tried to get away without using one, but sincie i got one there is a huge difference and youll know it if you see one working. look at that brown stuff you dump out, you want that still in your tank?

 

[bassmaster]

Hey Jacrmill,
You can advise someone more politely then
man your backwards a little bit.
This is a forum where someone comes for advise, not to be blasted about some little mistake. Remember, some people learn as they go (like me) and don't like to be dissed.
As for the fish, probably not the best idea to add them during a cycle. But that's alright. They're alive aren't they?
The LR would be a great thing to put in your tank as soon as possible. But remember, when you do, there will most likely be what's called, a "mini cycle." Somewhat self explanatory, your tank goes through another cycle, just not as drastic as the first time you set up you tank.
By the way, Welcome to the Board. I'm sure you will learn lots, and good luck with your tank.

 

[jacrmill]

first of all i wasnt being rude at all. i was saying that he was backwards in saying that you can add fish during a cycle but you cant add live rock. thats exactly backwards. you should add live rock and shouldnt add fish. yes the fish are alive right NOW, but they may not be in about 2 days. and learning as you go is ok, as long as you dont care how many fish you kill just so you can learn. maybe just maybe you could do a little bit of research before you take a life into your hands. learning as you go is for things like dancing not for things like keeping fish. and for adding fish during the cycle PROBABLY not the best idea? thats probably the worst idea. and how can the guy go through what you call a "mini-cycle" when he is still going through the main cycle which is the first? depending on where he is in his cycle, his ammonia and nitrites will both probably go up and cause death to most, if not all of his tank. listen to others advise if not mine. please someone back me up one this. how good of an idea is it to add 4 at 1 time fish during a cycle? its not good to add 4 fish at 1 time even after the cycle. im sick of people doing this crap. you get on here and tell your little problems that could have easily been avoided by reading, and i try to help and give you info that you deffinitly need. then i get called rude, when i wasnt even being rude. sorry DRkegel, i know you didnt say i was rude, and i had no intention of getting rude with YOU at all, but you really should do some reading before you do anything else.

 

[the new guy]

Sounds to me like the LFS recommended using "hardy" to help the tank cycle. This is not very uncommon and maybe in your opinion it is not right, however that is your opinion. I have read several posts that say you should not use fish to cycle and I have seen several that say you should. Which one is right? It is your opinion. I cycled my tank with 2 false percs and a blue damsel. Guess what, they are all still with me and they seem happy. Yes you may kill the fish and you may not.
How do you know that DrKegel has not been reading? It appears to me that he has been reading.
My LFS didn't seem to think so, but other people (on here and elsewhere) say it's OK.
The only reason I replied is because of the words you used in your reply make it seem like you were being rude.
and you think that was ok
That sounds like sarcasm to me??? I have read several posts from jacrmill and I know that he probably didn’t mean anything by it, but someone who has 3 posts probably doesn’t know that...

 

[drkegel]

Thanks for all the input. Just to clear things up, I have done my homework, but there are many things the books don't tell you, like it's normal for fish to hide out even though other ones don't. I'm new to this saltwater thing, and I am very patient when it comes to it, but don't want to mess up big time. Since, I'm new, hearing conflicting reports of what will/won't work can be confusing, so I try to get clarification from people who have experience. Thanks again!

 

[jacrmill]

i know many people use fish to cycle thier tank. that is not uncommon and thats not what i was referring too. what i was saying is that i wouldnt add 4 fish to my tank in the middle of the cycle. that is uncommon, and not a good idea. it could result in a crash of your whole setup. what other fish do you have? how big is your tank? what do all your tests read?
[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: jacrmill ]

 

[drkegel]

They are the only 4 fish in the tank, and they are all small. I have a 55 gal tank with CC, going to be a FOWLR. They all seem to be doing fine, except one of the damsels doesn't like the other one, always chasing him around and nipping at him. Think I'm going to take the real aggressive one back to my LFS and exchange him for one that isn't so mean. The tank hasn't finished cycling, but it has been cycling for about 12 days now, and I didn't put the fish in until ammonia had begun to drop off, about 10 days after I set up the tank.

 

[jacrmill]

so what was supplying the ammonia before you put your fish in?

 

[jacrmill]

also just so you know, all of the damsels are going to get aggressive. the older they get the more aggressive they get.

 

[drkegel]

I honestly have no idea what was supplying the ammonia. I thought I was doing the test wrong, or had bad info, so I got a second kit, and both read the same. My ammomia and nitrite were high, and the ammonia started to drop off a few days ago. The only thing I can think of is that when I cleaned the tank out, before putting water in, the cloth I used may have had some residual Windex on it (Windex uses ammonia as the cleaning agent). Then, by adding water, it diluted it to safer levels, and started the cycle.

 

[krrector]

HI DrKegel...I just wanted to welcome you to the board. I don't post much just because of way people respond at times to people. The only way people learn is to ask and I totally agree with you that reading don't tell you all. I have been in the fish business for almost fifteen years and at one point owned over forty aquariums. Sure all of it may not of been in the saltwater but all the same I was learning as I went. I own MANY books and MANY magazines regarding saltwater keeping. A good friend of mine services major tanks in Central Wisconsin...a lot of them are saltwater. Another good friend had a fish store business for many years. I also was a member of the local aquarium society. But the few questions I asked I got such "harsh" replies by some that I am hesitant to ask more. I did research before I set up my big aquarium and called all the way to Illinois to Minnesota for answers to just get "big" fish stores opinions. I decided to go with what the majority of them said and set up my 100 gallon tank with cc instead of live sand. Seeded it with cc from my existing tanks, running it for now with one emperor 400 and two 1140 penguin power heads and added forty pounds of live rock four days after I initially started it up. I waiting for the cloudiness to go away. I also added some saltwater Biozyme to help the process going. I just recently added five Damsels, three dominos and two blue....as I have READ and have been TOLD would help. The two other tanks I have now I also started with the damsels and have them now. One tank is almost a year old. The only fish I have lost is the ones a huge crab that was hiding in a rock boughten at a local store was in. After I got rid of him, no more loss. It is just a shame I think that people come on here and ask a question or two and get their heads bit off because maybe they don't know it all like others. A message board is a help board and if someone cannot give a reply nicely then maybe they should wait to give it at all. Not everything is written in stone and what some might feel is a failure others have proven it to of worked for them. I give you great credit to not of said something about one of the posts in here...more then what I could of done. People, with the expense of this hobby, just want a little added advice and I feel that is great..as long as it is given in an appropriate manner. Not to cut someone down cause the asked. Just my opinion. I wish you the best with your tank.

 

[jacrmill]

what is going on here? i was totally not being rude in any way when i originally replied to the post. if it was interpreted that way i am sorry, but i had no rude intention when i wrote it. i was rude in the next post cause i felt the need to defend myself. i also had to correct his post, cause it was inaccurate in places. from the original post i read it said that he was in his cycle and he add 4 fish. this is a huge mistake. but since that it looks like he has not even started his cycle, so these 4 fish will get it going. though cycling with live fish is not a way i would recommend it will work, however you may loose fish. i too came here for advise when i was a rookie. though i dont consider myself an expert i think i know a thing or two. i was trying to pass that on, and if you read that as rude im sorry. i was rude to BASSMASTER however because he was rude to me and worse than that he didnt know what he was talking about and was informing a person incorrectly. hes talking about a mini-cycle when he hasnt been through the first one, and hes assuming just cause the fish are alive right now that they will live through the cycle. these are both incorrect. i dont think you should learn as you go, though i understand that you gain experience as you go, but i think you should have enough respect for the life you take into your hands to do a good deal of research before starting.

 

[krrector]

I do feel there is a lot of good advice given on these forums. I also do know that there are times people are rude to others..maybe not on intention but still makes people wonder whether their questions are stupid or not. One person's quote on here is there is no such thing as a stupid question. I wish all people would believe that. People learn as they go and other people's experience may be what another person is looking for. I am sorry, I don't want to come out rude and hope people will still reply to messages I may post...cause hey I don't know it all either. I am far close to it. But I do know it does hurt for someone to come back with a remark that makes you feel stupid. Just wanted to make people aware to please think about the feelings of others before you criticize their mistakes. I am sure they were not made on purpose but just need a little help along the way. Hope no one is offended by my reply. I mean no harm to anyone.

 

[drkegel]

Hey fellas, I appreciate all that has been said. And, to clear things up,I am not assuming anything at all here. While the fish, SEEM fine, they could die. Heck, I could die, and I SEEM fine too. I decided to use damsels and clownfish to cycle rather than have my house smell of rotting shrimp. I don't know much other than what I have read, which is completely different from having experience with it. Patience is the biggest thing required from what I read, and I hope that hobbyists can not only be patient with their tanks, but with fellow hobbyists as well. Once again, thank you to everyone who has helped me out, but other newbies as well.

 

[jacrmill]

cycling with fish is perfectly fine, though not what i would recommend. everyone has different opinions. i understand that everyone doesnt do everything the same way i do. i was not being rude to you at all, i misunderstood your post. i thought you were cycling, when you really havent started much of your cycle. your ammonia and nitrites will rise and fall again. to re-answer your question, this is a great time to add your LR, but as i stated before i wouldnt add any more fish until the conclusion of your cycle. and just so you know i had no rude intent and i did not look down upon you or your question, if i did i would have just not replied. if my response sounded that way im sorry but that is not how it was intended. by the way i read your post i thought you had made a huge mistake.

 

[drkegel]

jacrmill, you are welcome to reply to my posts anytime. As is everyone else. I suppose I could have taken your comments to be rude, but then I would have been rude in return, and gotten no where and learned nothing other than screaming matches on BB are pointless and fruitless. Maybe I didn't explain what was going on perfectly; I'll try to be more clear in the future.

 

[jacrmill]

i never meant any rudeness towards you at all, so we can just chalk this up to a miscommunication. just so you know your cycle wont really start till you get a constant source of ammonia. this is where i was confused about your post. good luck, and if you have any other questions feel free to ask, and if i see them i will reply to the best of my knowledge.

 

[krrector]

I never meant any rudeness toward anyone either. I just don't like it when people "are" rude to others just because they don't know what they know. I meant no harm to anybody. I am one that just feels if I know something someone don't I will be glad to help them...nothing else. From time to time on here I am sure everyone will admit some replies are quite harsh. I feel from children on we only learn when we ask. And with the help of kind people we learn. Keep up the good work of informing people of your knowledge...let's just keep the consideration of others in mind too....just as fish have feelings... I think or mine wouldn't have names ... so do people. I as always appreciate all replies given to me and will appreciate all that is learned by reading other people's posts. I meant no harm...so hope I didn't offend any one person individually. Hope all you guys have a nice holiday. Kelly