Vodka Dosing???

florida joe

Well-Known Member
My friend this is a subject that the hobbyist needs to find research based on hard facts that being said. In a nutshell.
The main purpose to dose organic carbon is the reduction of excess nutrients in the reef aquaria. The two main nutrients reduced from organic carbon addition are nitrate and phosphate molecules (NO3 and PO4 respectfully). The reduction of phosphates, in turn, allows for enhanced calcification and growth of corals. Additionally, lower NO3 and PO4 have the added benefit of reduced nuisance algae, both bubble and hair. This observation has been reported numerous times by vodka users. The reduction in algae is the result of lower NO3 and PO4 within the water column and not a direct effect of ethanol addition. These potential benefits have lead some to add foreign organic carbon sources not usually found in the reef ecosystem to their tank. The organic compound most frequently used is ethanol (sold in stores as vodka).
The addition of vodka/ethanol is thought to increase bacterial biomass. For this, vodka addition would result in bacterial growth and reproduction. During this process nutrients in the water (including NO3 and PO4) are taken up for the formation of new macromolecules that are needed in cell synthesis and viability. Due to this rapid growth and reproduction, NO3 and PO4 can drop quickly from detectable levels by most test kits on the market. The increased biomass of the bacteria leads to a notable increase in skimmate production, removing more waste than without vodka addition. The increased skimmate is thought to remove the bacteria or bacterial biproducts that have assimilated the NO3 and PO4 within the water column leading to NO3 and PO4 depletion.
Many view organic carbon dosing as unnecessary as organic carbon isn’t thought to be limited in the reef aquarium environment since larger organic molecules are found within the water column at any given time. However, the amount of organic carbon that heterotrophic bacteria can utilize must be limited due to the reported benefits and observations from organic carbon dosing. This method is applicable for systems that have had the inability to effectively remove both NO3 and PO4 from their system. Stable systems that do not contain high levels of NO3 and PO4 may not benefit to any great extent by employing carbon source dosing
But you must understand this info is coming from a border line (debatable) alcoholic that loves
Vodka
DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT DOSING WITH OUT EXTENSIVE RESERCH
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2948695
DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT DOSING WITH OUT EXTENSIVE RESERCH
Highly agreed.
Vodka dosing is pretty much for experts only. Even I don't feel comfortable with vodka dosing.
From what I gather from the whole deal is that you dose vodka to increase aerobic respiration and bacterial reproduction which reduces nitrates and phosphates.
You know something easier to reduce nitrates and phosphates?
Water Changes.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
haha, good one Henry.
No, I don't feel comfortable with vodka dosing. There was a really good thread on here about it about six months ago. The guy had a beautiful overstocked reef tank...
 

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by bioneck47
http:///forum/post/2949088
+1.. and a very good skimmer.
This is a very good point. If your skimmer is unable to remove the bacteral flotsam resulting from the alcohol then you will actually be making the nutrient levels higher.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
I tend to shy away from getting into particulars when it comes to vodka dosing but as my good friend Bang stated the absolute (no pun intended) need for a protein skimmer I will add
People that have reported beneficial results using this method all have had strong skimmer and report a change in skimmate from a light brown to a strong odiferous black sludge. This makes a good skimmer a key requirement and important for two reasons:
1.Gas exchange. The increased bacterial biomass and growth will decrease your dissolved O2 levels in the water column. Too much vodka can result in a drastic decrease of O2 and can cause stress to your reef inhabitants, if not death.
2.Exporting bacteria/macromolecule mass. Vodka addition results in lower NO3 and PO4 levels. You will want to export the incorporated nitrogen and phosphates that you are cultivating by organic carbon dosing. Efficient skimming allows such removal.
Jörg Kokott, a key contribubter to the prosess recommended the use of ozone during the duration of vodka dosing to maintain high levels of dissolved O2 in the system. This decrease in dissolved O2 is indirectly observed in ORP meter readings after vodka addition. Though not an absolute requirement, as told from many -- participants, ozone may add an extra level of protection by increasing O2 levels during an overdose.
Gelbstoff, German for yellow matter, is reported to buildup in aquariums over time. Additions of vodka or other carbon sources have the potential to accelerate the yellowish water buildup from organics. To solve this problem, people have utilized ozonators to breakdown of the organic molecules responsible for resulting in yellowish water. Ozone is an attractive choice as it would not only breakdown the gelbstoff but will also add O2 to the water in case of an overdose. For people not interested in running ozone other solutions for this problem are the addition of granulated activated carbon or through regular water changes.
 

nitschke65

Member
Expressing someone elses ideas as your own is called plagarism. It's a lot like petty theft.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's not hard to tell when, someone who posts pictures of their fish themed martini glass, try to pass off a phrase like, "The main purpose to dose organic carbon is the reduction of excess nutrients in the reef aquaria." florida joe, unless your real name is Nathaniel A. Walton or Matt Bjornson, you owe somebody an apology.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by nitschke65
http:///forum/post/2949304
Expressing someone elses ideas as your own is called plagarism. It's a lot like petty theft.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's not hard to tell when, someone who posts pictures of their fish themed martini glass, try to pass off a phrase like, "The main purpose to dose organic carbon is the reduction of excess nutrients in the reef aquaria." florida joe, unless your real name is Nathaniel A. Walton or Matt Bjornson, you owe somebody an apology.
Sorry I don’t remember when I said that vodka dosing was my idea nor do I remember saying my name was either Kokott or Gelbstoff . What I did say was that as long as protein skimming was brought up that I would add the following information. But in as much as you feel the need to monitor posts and see if people are just passing on information that is proven and not necessarily there own findings I guess I will have to look over your past posts for any infractions of the rules
 

nitschke65

Member
Florida joe, if you're going to cut and paste other people's words into your posts, you're exactly whats wrong with this kind of forum. People are here for honest answers from real people. If makoshrk2 wanted to read a boring essay on vodka dosing, he could have typed "vodka dosing" into google, and come up with Walton and Bjornson's article, just like I did it. I started to read this post, because I was interested in learning something. I did, I learned you're a fraud.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Hey, here, I can sound smart too without giving links:
Bacterial Blooms - High additions of carbon sources at once are noted as production of slimy white strings upon rocks or in sumps that become noticeable a few hours to a day after addition. There is no clear evidence that this is detrimental to your tank. If this is observed dropping your dose by 50% will result in the disappearance of these strands. Additionally, these strands may have given rise to the notion of "bad bacteria". By this forum users mean pathogenic bacteria. But there has not been any documented evidence of such yet. If you happen to overdose your tank with an organic carbon dose, you will stimulate a bacteria bloom, this appears like a snowstorm in your tank. After a day, the tank will clear up. During this time people have reported mixed results on survival from this snowstorm. Stony_Coral has purposefully caused this on one tank and while ORP readings dropped, no loss of livestock was observed. However, people have mentioned loss of more delicate fish such as anthias during the visualized bloom. In general, a visible bloom will not occur if vodka is dosed as per the instructions above.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
copy and paste is fun, isn't it? Joe, if you copy and paste something, please, please, please give the link, unless it's forbidden on this site, or at least tell us that it is a copy and paste.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by nitschke65
http:///forum/post/2949343
Florida joe, if you're going to cut and paste other people's words into your posts, you're exactly whats wrong with this kind of forum. People are here for honest answers from real people. If makoshrk2 wanted to read a boring essay on vodka dosing, he could have typed "vodka dosing" into google, and come up with Walton and Bjornson's article, just like I did it. I started to read this post, because I was interested in learning something. I did, I learned you're a fraud.
Again I missed the part where I said I was the expert on vodka dosing I think the question the person starting the thread asked was Vodka dosing “What is the benefit of this. I've never heard of this before???
People are here for honest answers from real people. Your quote exactly what does that mean. Every correct answer on the boards should be based on fact and should that fact not be culled from information garnished from experts or am I missing something here. By the way reading your posts I must admitt you are exactly what these boards need
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Vodka dosing is pretty much for experts only. Even I don't feel comfortable with vodka dosing
well snake I Guess that means you are the expert so I eagerly await your ground braking information
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I never said I was an expert. If I was, don't you think I would feel comfortable with it? There's always so much more to learn.
I know you are just defending yourself, I don't have a problem with it. I'm not insulting your integrity, nor have I lost respect for you. I am just looking at it as an oversight, like you forgot to put the link, ok?
Sorry if I came off a bit harsh.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Actually what you said was and I quote again “ Vodka dosing is pretty much for the experts” and even YOU don’t feel comfortable with it. But I Guess you are now just defending yourself. There is not much information pertaining to this hobby that one can get on line that is not linked to a site that sells products hence not much information would be available to the members if such links were provided as that is not allowed If the only information members received were from experts in the field first hand I am afraid there would not be many responses. Except of course from nitschkel 65 would only respond with first hand information that he alone has researched and published don’t you also agree that as helpers in the hobby we should be conduits of information?
Sorry if I came off a bit harsh.
On second thought I think you guys are right I will post the links and book title and page number of the information I post.So I do not get the create and money members send me Then again that’s just too much trouble We will just wait for the experts themselves to respond
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Is that sarcasm?
Yes, I believe that as helpers in the hobby, we should convey useful information to other hobbyists. I guess we wouldn't have that many responces with useful information in it then.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2949426
Is that sarcasm?
Yes, I believe that as helpers in the hobby, we should convey useful information to other hobbyists. I guess we wouldn't have that many responces with useful information in it then.
Snake my friend it is not sarcasm and I truly believe you know where I am coming from
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by nitschke65
http:///forum/post/2949304
Expressing someone elses ideas as your own is called plagarism. It's a lot like petty theft.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's not hard to tell when, someone who posts pictures of their fish themed martini glass, try to pass off a phrase like, "The main purpose to dose organic carbon is the reduction of excess nutrients in the reef aquaria." florida joe, unless your real name is Nathaniel A. Walton or Matt Bjornson, you owe somebody an apology.
Well now here is something I can certainly learn from the expert. Please explain to me how posting a picture of a fish themed martini glass would prevent a person from making the statement “The main purpose to dose organic carbon is the reduction of excess nutrients in the reef aquaria." Is there a bit of stereo typing in your statement and if so how rude and condescending
 
Top