Want to do a 180 gallon with 2 Lionfish,how hard will that be to maintain??

julie853

Member
Hello,I have been out of the saltwater fish for years now and have only freshwater fish. My poor last Discus died and now I have a empty 180 gallon aquarium.I would love to set it up with nothing but two Volitan Lion fish but am afraid of the work of getting back into salt water again.
My question is how hard will it be for me to run and keep two lionfish in a 180 aquarium?? How often will I have to do water changes with two Lionfish? I am wondering if I should stick to freshwater fish even though I love Lionfish and would love too have a couple.
 
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rcreations

Guest
How often you do water changes depends on your filtration system. If you have a good protein skimmer, good water circulation and good size sump, a 180 with just 2 lion fish, you can get by with monthly water changes, maybe even less.
 

julie853

Member
Hello,thanks for the advice. when I do a water change how much am I looking at changing 10%, 20%?
Also doing a fish only tank how bad will fight I the dreaded algae problems??? I allways felt like I fought algae more in more saltwater tanks than my freshwater tank. I'm hoping that a fish only tank wont be as bad with algae.Thanks for any info.
 
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rcreations

Guest
Again, it depends on your filtration and other factors. The goal is to keep the nitrates down. If you have a really good protein skimmer, no overcrowding, good water circulation, you can get by with just 10% monthly.
 
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rcreations

Guest
Oh and the algae is also a factor of all those things. Usually algae blooms happen because of over feeding, poor water circulation, filtration, high nitrates, water quality (I recommend using RO filtered water). So you control those things, you control the algae.
 
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saxman

Guest
You could keep a couple of P. volitans in that setup pretty easily. Just in case you don't know just how large an adult volitans gets, think of having two American footballs swimming around in the tank. Our volitans outgrew 3 setups, and is currently in a 100 gal "wide" (48" x 24" x 20").
Upkeep shouldn't be too bad, as lions should only be fed 3x a week (we feed all of our lions M-W-F). Make sure you have a good skimmer and good surface agitation on the setup. Many of the foods you'll feed your lions are on the oily side, and can produce a "slick" on the water's surface. You'll want to have a few caves and/or overhangs when you do your aquascaping, and be sure to give the fish plenty of "turnaround" space (think of each fish as a 12" cube, counting pectoral spread).
Another recommendation I can make is the use of live macro algae in the DT...it looks nice, and is a real aid in maintaining water quality.
Here is some info taken from our upcoming lionfish-keeping article:
Pterois volitans (Common Lionfish, Red Lionfish, Red Firefish, Turkeyfish, Butterfly Cod, Scorpion Cod, Featherfins, Peacock Lionfish, Zebrafish, Black Volitans)
Maximum Size: 15” TL
Natural Habitat: Inhabit lagoon and seaward reefs from turbid inshore areas to depths of about 50 meters. Pacific Ocean: Cocos-Keeling Islands and Western Australia, in the eastern Indian Ocean to the Marquesas and Oeno (Pitcairn group), north to southern Japan and southern Korea, south to Lord Howe Island, northern New Zealand, and the Austral Islands. Depth: 2 - 55 meters
Minimum Tank Size: 100 gallons.
This species is what one would have to consider THE
lionfish. Whenever a person mentions that they keep a lionfish, it is most likely P. volitans
. At this writing, we have kept nine species of lionfish, and although each species has its own allure, there is nothing quite like an adult volitans
in terms of sheer “presence” and graceful beauty. They make the ultimate centerpiece fish for the larger aquarium. Unfortunately, these fish are often offered as 2” juveniles, and many keepers are unaware as to how large and/or how fast these fish can grow, so many specimens end up being cramped and “tank-stunted” instead of being able to spread their fins and cruise about their tank.
Coloration can be variable, and is generally associated with the geographic location a given fish hails from. Generally speaking, there are basic two color morphs: white with black body bands or white with red/brown banding. There is also a dark, almost completely black color morph that is a bit more rare, but quite interesting to see. Unlike the Russel’s lionfish, the median and caudal fins of P. volitans have several small dark spots on them. One of the most noticeable traits of “juvie” volitans lions are their very long, individually-sheathed pectoral fin rays. The short membrane at the base of each pectoral fin is clear, and the outer edge is adorned with several ocellae, or “eye spots” in juvenile specimens. These spots mimic the eyes of a small cluster of prey fish, and serve to confuse and calm the baby lion’s prey. However, these spots and the clear membrane disappear as the fish grow. As the fish mature, they also “grow into” their pectorals, thus, you may see some adult specimens with short pectorals and a squatty, bulldog-like body, while others retain a fair amount of their pectoral fin sweep. There is supposition that the difference between shorter and longer-finned specimens may be geographical locale. Juvenile specimens also exhibit two supraorbital tentacles (“antennae”) that typically disappear as the fish ages, although there are some adult fish that keep them for life.
P. volitans
is typically very easy to feed and wean, and weaning is often accomplished by simply adding a chunk of food to the water column, as this species has a voracious appetite. Their “maximum prey size” is often underestimated by aquarists who watch in horror as their adult volitans
slurps down a 6”+ long tankmate in the blink of an eye.
This species is probably the most forgiving of all lionfish species in terms of water quality and other forms of negligence visited on them by the aquarist. In fact, in the past, this fish was sometimes used to cycle new setups, as they could handle the various spikes in water chemistry. One of the most often made mistakes with this fish is to “under-tank” it. Even a smaller adult will end up being a 12” cube (including fins), so they require a minimum front-to-back depth of 18” just to be able to turn around comfortably.
You can also Google "Frank Marini Lionfish" and get to his excellent online article. Frank also has a great book entitled Lionfishes and Other Scorpionfishes
that is available on Amazon for less than $10...definitely a great resource.
Finally, here's a good article on feeding and weaning your lionfish:
http://www.lionfishlair.com/feedingtechniques/toolsofthetrade.shtml
Can't wait to see your "lion's lair"...
 

travelerjp98

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by julie853 http:///forum/thread/387007/want-to-do-a-180-gallon-with-2-lionfish-how-hard-will-that-be-to-maintain#post_3401985
Hello,I have been out of the saltwater fish for years now and have only freshwater fish. My poor last Discus died and now I have a empty 180 gallon aquarium.I would love to set it up with nothing but two Volitan Lion fish but am afraid of the work of getting back into salt water again.
My question is how hard will it be for me to run and keep two lionfish in a 180 aquarium?? How often will I have to do water changes with two Lionfish? I am wondering if I should stick to freshwater fish even though I love Lionfish and would love too have a couple.
20% every 1.5 months should be enough especially if you have a protein skimmer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by julie853
http:///forum/thread/387007/want-to-do-a-180-gallon-with-2-lionfish-how-hard-will-that-be-to-maintain#post_3402799
Hello,thanks for the advice. when I do a water change how much am I looking at changing 10%, 20%?
Also doing a fish only tank how bad will fight I the dreaded algae problems??? I allways felt like I fought algae more in more saltwater tanks than my freshwater tank. I'm hoping that a fish only tank wont be as bad with algae.Thanks for any info.
Why not just keep a clean up crew... lions can be messy eaters so a clean up crew would take care of that and also algae.
how bout a giant queen conch (12"+) or a giant hermit crab (up to 16"?) They would take care of the problem.
or some other clean up crew.
 
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saxman

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelerjp98 http:///forum/thread/387007/want-to-do-a-180-gallon-with-2-lionfish-how-hard-will-that-be-to-maintain#post_3403589
Why not just keep a clean up crew... lions can be messy eaters so a clean up crew would take care of that and also algae.
how bout a giant queen conch (12"+) or a giant hermit crab (up to 16"?) They would take care of the problem.
or some other clean up crew.
Lionfish won't bother a normal CUC of snails and scarlet hermits (red with yellow eye stalks). IME, Dardanus hermits are pretty destructive, and I wouldn't trust one with a resting lionfish.
Here's a primer on CUC selection: http://www.lionfishlair.com/cuc/cuc.shtml
I've kept queen conchs, and they do fine, altho they're pretty clumsy and tend to knock things over. One plus to queens is that they CAN climb, albeit in a rather odd way, so unlike fighting conchs, they aren't limited to the height that their proboscis can reach.
One of the biggest mistakes folks make with CUC's is to stock a new tank to heavily. What happens if you go with what most places want to sell you is your CUC dies back to what the tank will support at the time, so once the tank matures, you'll have to spend that money again rather than simply adding the critters that your tank 'tells" you it needs, or those that seem to work well in that particular system.
 
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saxman

Guest
Yeppers...mine and Cranberry's (Renee).
As soon as Renee gets the lionfish article coded and adds photos, it will go "live". Now that the dust is finally settling from our move (a year ago), we're hoping to get the hobby ramped-up again. We have a couple of tank builds in the works that should be pretty nice and will allow us to lose a couple of our grow-out setups. We also have a few specimens that haven't been photo'd yet too.
 

julie853

Member
Thanks for all the great advice! I am going to take this real slow and am still decideing if Lionfish are the way I want to go.I have been doing freshwater for so long that Im just kind of bored of the freshwater fish.I have a 125 gallon setup with my favorite freshwater fish and now need to decide if I want to go with the lionfish in the 180 gallon. It sounds like the lionfish would be pretty easy to care for with the right filtration a good skimmer and a good clean up crew.
I love the idea of the queen conch or the giant hermit crab but am a little worried about the tank being large enough to contain one of them.
Lots to think about I dont want to rush into anything.
Thanks so much for all the great advice!
 

travelerjp98

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by julie853 http:///forum/thread/387007/want-to-do-a-180-gallon-with-2-lionfish-how-hard-will-that-be-to-maintain#post_3403804
Thanks for all the great advice! I am going to take this real slow and am still decideing if Lionfish are the way I want to go.I have been doing freshwater for so long that Im just kind of bored of the freshwater fish.I have a 125 gallon setup with my favorite freshwater fish and now need to decide if I want to go with the lionfish in the 180 gallon. It sounds like the lionfish would be pretty easy to care for with the right filtration a good skimmer and a good clean up crew.
I love the idea of the queen conch or the giant hermit crab but am a little worried about the tank being large enough to contain one of them.
Lots to think about I dont want to rush into anything.
Thanks so much for all the great advice!
your thinking the right way! never rush in this hobby. think everything through.... but it seems that you know that already so no need to lecture LOL.
 
S

saxman

Guest
IME, queen conchs are slow-growing. Mine reached about 4"-5" in about 3 years from about 1" specimens.
Another way to go would be a trio of medium-bodied Pterois species (P. mombassae, P. radiata, and P. antennata) They max out in the 7"-8" range in captivity, and once they're established are really great fish. Our radiata and antennata are really pretty fish, but of the three, I'd have to say my fave is the Mombasa. Who am I kidding? ALL of our lions (we currently have nine) are super fish...
 

julie853

Member
Hi,after reading and researching on the lionfish I would prefere to own the Volitan lionfish. I cosidered the Radiata and the Antennata but like the Volitan a little bit better.
I have to agree though all the lionfish are awesome fish!!
 
S

saxman

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by julie853 http:///forum/thread/387007/want-to-do-a-180-gallon-with-2-lionfish-how-hard-will-that-be-to-maintain#post_3403845
Hi,after reading and researching on the lionfish I would prefere to own the Volitan lionfish. I cosidered the Radiata and the Antennata but like the Volitan a little bit better.
I have to agree though all the lionfish are awesome fish!!
There's nothing quite like an adult volitans...hands down, they are simply impressive. Our volitans just happens to grace the cover of Frank Marini's book entitled Lionfishes and Other Scorpionfishes, so it's a "celebrity".

Here's the fish:

The "money shot":
 

julie853

Member
Wow,awsome pictures!!! They are such a cool fish and your pictures just really show how beautiful they are!!!
 
S

saxman

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by julie853 http:///forum/thread/387007/want-to-do-a-180-gallon-with-2-lionfish-how-hard-will-that-be-to-maintain#post_3404158
Wow,awsome pictures!!! They are such a cool fish and your pictures just really show how beautiful they are!!!

We've been fortunate to have collected some pretty cool fish over the years. Give this link a peek...each photo is "clickable" and opens up additional pix and/or vids:
http://www.lionfishlair.com/gregandreneegallery/galleryfront.shtml
 
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