*Warning* Political content

[reefraff]

So I was just wondering to all my little political buddies, why are you the way you are?
This sorta came up in an unrelated thread and I thought it would make an interesting stand alone topic.
What is it that makes you left or right?
For me I grew up in a family of Southern Fried Democrats for the most part but as big of a waste of skin as my dad was I thank god for him. He was a registered cynic and hated whoever was in office.

What it did was taught me to question whoever was in office.
Coming of age during Watergate made me weary of the old fart Republicans and Jimmy Carter hung out with Lynard Skynard and used a blow dryer. Call me a Democrat. Then came his famous "we have to lower our quality of life expectations" speech. First time (and one the maybe 3) my mom ever heard me use the F word, that was painful

Then along came Reagan talking about what we could be. I knew I didn't want Carter again so I figured give the old fart a shot. Reagan really shaped a lot of my views. Call me Republican
Then came Daddy Bush, lets just say I am still a Republican but shaky, Voted Perot in 92.
In 94 came Newt Gingrich and the Contract with America. America, the way it outta be... Back solidly in the Republican camp. Voted for Dole in 96 but wasn't overly enthusiastic.
In 97 I ran for local office. The town I lived in had become a nest for something called the New Party which was a left wing fanatical group based on Canada's New Democratic Party. What happened was a group of more reasonable Republicans, and old school Democrats (think Bionicarm) got together to swat down the New Party who already held several seats on the city council. In that I discovered that on more local issues most Democrats and most Republicans agree on nearly everything. It's national and state politics where the waters get really polluted. Made the Republican thing shaky again.
Then in 98 the Republicans stabbed Newt Gingrich in the back and started their move to out Democrat the Democrats. Call me independent. Voted for W twice, even gave him enough money to get the "Personal" Christmas card but that was more a matter of voting against his opponents. Bush was hanging out with Montana Governor Marc Rocicot, that's all I needed to know about Bush to want John Kasich to be the Republican Nominee. I worked for a governor's race against that clown and figured if he and Bush were buddies I wanted no part of either. We all saw how well that big spending Republican Congress did with a Republican president running the show who was more Carter than Reagan.
In all those years I learned a few basic principles that form my political beliefs
1) Giving away other people's money doesn't make you generous or compassionate.
2) If you feed a stray cat pretty soon you will have another, and another, and another.
3) Beware of giving those in charge too much power just because you agree with them because sooner or later someone you disagree with will be in power.
4) And most important, NEVER MAKE IT, OR TAKE IT PERSONAL. My best friend would probably tattoo the Obama O on his butt if the campaign asked him to. That doesn't mean we can't be friends. We get into some pretty heated discussions but at the end of the day we just understand the other is a complete idiot and go about our business.

 

[bionicarm]

Old school Democrat?

You may think so, but I'm far from it. In all honesty, I rarely if ever got into politics when I was younger. I don't even remember the first person I voted for. I pretty much went with the flow, but learned early on that no matter who I wanted to represent me in Washington, the State, or even the City, they ended up being a dishonest crook that only was in it for themselves. I've never tusted ANY politician as far as what their platforms and promises were, because they rarely if ever followed thorugh with those promises. I voted for Clinton because I didn't agree with Daddy Bush's position in Kuwait and the Gulf War. I voted for Dubya his first term because I didn't agree with Gore's campaign platform. I voted for Kerry in 2004 because of Dubya's involvement with Iraq, and because he provided tax credits designed for the rich. I voted for Obama mainly because McCain was nothing but a Bush clone, and they guy went completely left field when he selected Palin as a running mate. Do I agree with everything Obama has implemented? Absolutely not. Do I think he was the lesser of two evils when it came to picking a President in the last election? Yes I do. Will I vote for him again in 2012? I'm part of the 'wait and see' group as far as whether these programs he's implemented in his first year will actually be good or bad for this country. I'm not speculating or predicting an inevitable failure based on past records of other Democratic Presidents. I know Big Government takes time to work, that changes don't happen overnight. I'm not going to pre-judge whether his policies are good or bad simply because neither I, nor anyone elese really knows for sure until they go into full swing. If I see a negative impact on my quality of life because of some law Obama implemented, I'll vote against him in the next election. I don't walk into a voting booth and simply hit the "Vote for Democratic Party Members" button and walk out. I don't vote for somebody based on their name, or what their ethnicity is. I align my votes with the individual who I think will best benefit me, and what will least interrupt my quality of life. That person can be a Democrat, Republican, or an Independent.

 

[stdreb27]

yawn, I vote republican because Rush Limbaugh told me to...

 

[darthtang aw]

Wow...good thread reef.
Ok, myself. My entire family for the most part is republican....aside from a few that live down in florida....I blame the high wind hurricanes for damaging their brain cells. But moving on.
As a young lad I lived in Germany through the carter years and the first couple years of Reagan's term. But these years gave me an insight on how the european Germans viewed each type of president during the iron curtain years. Reagan was loved by those I knew and remembered. Carter was ignored or forgotten. This set the tone for how I feel our country should handle things.
So how republican is my family? My uncle has a picture of the last bush hanging above his TV...lol...My grandfather had an autographed picture of Reagan on his end table next to his chair.
So I guess a lot of my ideal came from them.but not to the extreme they are. My hunting and fishing, and pro gun views definitely come from them. My grandfather owned an 800 acre farm that he raised his children on and myself and the other grand children lived on for a few years here and there. Everything they had, they earned and worked for. Their house started out as a kitchen and a bedroom. It latter expanded over the years to 5 bedrooms, living room, family room, kitchen and a couple dens with 4 bathrooms. three car garage (they built themselves from lumber they cut themselves. All the concrete driveways were poured and formed themselves. The wood burning stove (this thing was 10 feet by 10 feet) they installed in the house themselves. Everything was done by the family.
After my grandmother died from a 2 year battle of cervical cancer, my grandfather sold the farm and kept about 25 acres. I lived in the house for those two years. everyone pulled their own weight. Had no choice but to.
My grandfather invested his money after he sold off most everything. Our nephew was a stock broker. He handled the investments. My grandfather lost 3/4 of his retirement/savings. Because our nephew invested the money in some risky ventures without my grandfather's knowledge. My grandfather, the amazing man he was, held no grudge. when our nephew came begging for forgiveness he gave it. never even raised his voice to him in anger. When asked about the money, he said, "it is what it is. Getting angry is not going to change anything." so he learned to live on less than he was expecting to...by 3/4 of his previous income.
My grandfather was a pilot in WW2....I guess that helped shape his views.
So coming of age election time. In Highschool Clinton vs bush vs perot was the first election I really paid attention to.
I voted for perot in the mock election in school. Surprisingly Perot won the election in my school...lol...by a large margin.
First real election, I actually voted Clinton the following election. Bob dole was a putz. Clinton truly didn't bother me, some of his views (mainly global) did, but over all he wasn't as bad as the right wing make him out to be. Just don't bring up N. Korea and china and I will say good things about the man.
Next voted for bush over gore.....gore is a moron.Gore might have sold me had he stuck to the clinton platform, but distancing himself is where he lost me.
I voted for bush again against Kerry...mainly because of global outlook. Domestically they were the same.....(of course now I wish Kerry had won, things would be very different and probably better than what we have now).
Basically domestically I feel the government should do anymore. We are spending ourselves beyond our means internally. Globally is where government needs to be, handle the foreign policy and leave the domestic stuff alone.
75% of our debt comes from domestic spending. I guess I am the way I am because of my grandparents more than anything....since my parents have the same approach now, and as do I.
For me, it is about entitlement spending.
Abortion, I really don't care anymore, sure I will debate it, but I could careless what a politician's stance is.
Gun control...nope, for a long time I believed some gun control was ok (IE assault rifles) but I have changed my mind.
Religion...I don't care...if you pray to smurfs for guidance on how to handle Iran and their nuke program, that is fine. as long as your ideas and thoughts are in the end going to protect this great nation.
spending (war being the exception) every dime has to be accounted for and paid for. If my grandfather can make do with having income cut down, so should our government. No more entitlements.
I would trade social security for government funded healthcare. but do not like the idea of having both. To many people in this country believe life should be easy and the government should take care of them....No, you and your family should take care of each other.Life is like a condom, it is only appreciated when it is hard.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3255549
Old school Democrat?

You may think so, but I'm far from it. In all honesty, I rarely if ever got into politics when I was younger. I don't even remember the first person I voted for. I pretty much went with the flow, but learned early on that no matter who I wanted to represent me in Washington, the State, or even the City, they ended up being a dishonest crook that only was in it for themselves. I've never tusted ANY politician as far as what their platforms and promises were, because they rarely if ever followed thorugh with those promises. I voted for Clinton because I didn't agree with Daddy Bush's position in Kuwait and the Gulf War. I voted for Dubya his first term because I didn't agree with Gore's campaign platform. I voted for Kerry in 2004 because of Dubya's involvement with Iraq, and because he provided tax credits designed for the rich. I voted for Obama mainly because McCain was nothing but a Bush clone, and they guy went completely left field when he selected Palin as a running mate. Do I agree with everything Obama has implemented? Absolutely not. Do I think he was the lesser of two evils when it came to picking a President in the last election? Yes I do. Will I vote for him again in 2012? I'm part of the 'wait and see' group as far as whether these programs he's implemented in his first year will actually be good or bad for this country. I'm not speculating or predicting an inevitable failure based on past records of other Democratic Presidents. I know Big Government takes time to work, that changes don't happen overnight. I'm not going to pre-judge whether his policies are good or bad simply because neither I, nor anyone elese really knows for sure until they go into full swing. If I see a negative impact on my quality of life because of some law Obama implemented, I'll vote against him in the next election. I don't walk into a voting booth and simply hit the "Vote for Democratic Party Members" button and walk out. I don't vote for somebody based on their name, or what their ethnicity is. I align my votes with the individual who I think will best benefit me, and what will least interrupt my quality of life. That person can be a Democrat, Republican, or an Independent.
What you just described is what I meant by old school Democrat, sorta. Lydon Johnson Liberalism was fine but they opposed the nanny state. Many of these guys voted for some of the moderate Republicans in local and state and national elections where the Democrat candidate was a left wing loon. Blue collar might be a better description but I think the unions have changed the modern day meaning of the word

 

[reefraff]

My mom and her brother were Democrats cause their daddy was a Democrat and his daddy before him. It was pretty funny really. They were both against all the affirmative action BS the Democrats push, Both were vehemently anti abortion, The uncle was a deacon in the Southern Baptist Church. Both railed against Welfare, gay rights etc. But both were party line Democrat voters up to the day they died. The unc might not have voted for Kerry because of his treasonous activities during Vietnam but I also don't think he would have voter for Bush.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Now granted I'm someone born in 1981, so my political view isn't as long and lustrous as most of yours.
When I started paying attention in high school, Clinton was in his heyday and I kind of saw how partisan politics worked. From my high school days point of view, I saw Clinton doing what appeared to be a decent job running the county. The economy was good, we weren't in any wars, most families I knew were doing ok for the most part, and I was headed to college soon. Then the whole Lewinsky thing went down, and I saw for the first time in my life that all that really mattered was the "R" or "D" next to the name of the politician.
As far as what he did in his personal life, I didn't really feel like it mattered much so long as he was running the country well, which in my eyes he was. That's when I got a bad taste for Republicans, when they started playing the "He has to be impeached for his infidelity and lying" blah blah blah.
EVERYONE cheats, lies, steals, etc on both sides of the aisle as we have seen in the past ten years and there is nothing that kills me more than when EITHER party hops on the morality train and starts persecuting simply based on politics.
In college in South Carolina, I got into politics seriously for the first time and was actually a big McCain supporter in the 2000 primary. My band played an event for him in Spartanburg, SC and I actually met and then volunteered for his campaign.
Then I started to see that eventhough in my eyes McCain had the better platform, Bush was going to outspend and therefore win the primary, which he obviously did.
I also got my first taste of those ignorant hicks (pardon the French) who were all die hard "republicans" across the board, and were also extremely racist, uneducated, and voted based on what their parents and church told them to do. Yes, yes I know there are democrats who are the exact same thing, and probably worse, but that's not what I saw personally. So...
It was somewhere in the four years between 2000 and 2004 that I really started to lean left, mostly because I am pretty anti war unless it's absolutely 100% necessary. I didn't feel like it was, even after 9/11 unless they were going specifically after Al Queda in Afghanistan, which they were for a while and then of course it all shifted to Iraq. After that, I just felt like the war was more of a money making machine for a lot of the Bush cronies (be it contractors or big oil). The thing that was sad is that much like during WWII I felt like the average Joe could have benefited a whole lot more, and not the big billion dollar companies. Alas.
In 2004 I voted Gore, not because I was on board with his views, but more so I was just tired of the direction Bush was taking things. Sadly that didn't work out in my favor and Bush got four more years to help make the rich richer and the poor, well, you get the idea...
So in 08' I voted Obama, eventhough it was semantics at that point, as I knew the Democrats would sweep the elections. And here we are. Lots of spending going on, but what most people don't realize is that these social programs are going to take several years to start showing improvements. None of this is an overnight fix, but of course that's what the right wants to you believe, and if it's not fixed ASAP it's obviously not working. I don't buy into that... yet.
And here we are in 2010...

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3255741
In 2004 I voted Gore, not because I was on board with his views, but more so I was just tired of the direction Bush was taking things. Sadly that didn't work out in my favor and Bush got four more years to help make the rich richer and the poor, well, you get the idea...
So in 08' I voted Obama, eventhough it was semantics at that point, as I knew the Democrats would sweep the elections. And here we are. Lots of spending going on, but what most people don't realize is that these social programs are going to take several years to start showing improvements. None of this is an overnight fix, but of course that's what the right wants to you believe, and if it's not fixed ASAP it's obviously not working. I don't buy into that... yet.
And here we are in 2010...
Maybe if you voted for Kerry in 04' Bush might have lost...lol...
Not to get into a debate, but we know the social programs aren't suppossed to work right away...they are never suppossed to work, this is what we have been saying. How is the balance sheet on Medicare and social security? How many years has it been?
Oh, and the didn't try to impeach clinton because of his infideity or lying. It was because he lied "under oath" in the "courtroom". You know , that pesky perjury law.

 

[theclemsonkid]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3255744
Maybe if you voted for Kerry in 04' Bush might have lost...lol...
Not to get into a debate, but we know the social programs aren't suppossed to work right away...they are never suppossed to work, this is what we have been saying. How is the balance sheet on Medicare and social security? How many years has it been?
Oh, and the didn't try to impeach clinton because of his infideity or lying. It was because he lied "under oath" in the "courtroom". You know , that pesky perjury law.
Gore, Kerry... they are interchangable right?

 

[theclemsonkid]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3255744
Maybe if you voted for Kerry in 04' Bush might have lost...lol...
Not to get into a debate, but we know the social programs aren't suppossed to work right away...they are never suppossed to work, this is what we have been saying. How is the balance sheet on Medicare and social security? How many years has it been?
Oh, and the didn't try to impeach clinton because of his infideity or lying. It was because he lied "under oath" in the "courtroom". You know , that pesky perjury law.
And yes, he was certainly guilty of perjury, but it was about s e x in his personal life. Not like a secret arms deal with Russia. Technially if someone asked him under oath what kind of cereal he had for breakfast and he said "Frosted Mini Wheats" and then we find out it was actually "Cinnamon Toast Crunch", he would be guilty of purgury again. I don't see anyone going after him for that...
Now obviously it's not the same thing, but let's keep politics political, and personal life personal...
You think Bush would have volutarily come out and said he snorted coke, or had a DUI if he hadn't been caught? I doubt it...

 

[uneverno]

Interesting thread.
I became politically "aware" in the late '60s, early '70's. My Lai, the Puebla incident, the Bobby K and Martin Luther King Jr. assasinations, the Tet Offensive, the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, the Watts riots, the Black Panthers, Kent State, the Fall of Saigon, the elimination of the draft (sorta), Woodstock, the Summer of Love, etc.
It was during those seminal years that I realized that our Government has no interest in representing "We the People." Sure, they'll say and do anything to garner those votes, but in the end, it means nothing more than "re-elect me."
Richard Nixon/Henry Kissinger, Jimmy Carter/Zbigniew Brzezinsky, Ronald Reagan/George Schultz, George H. W. Bush/James Baker, taught me well.
It is the State Department which runs our government.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/3255747
And yes, he was certainly guilty of perjury, but it was about s e x in his personal life. Not like a secret arms deal with Russia. Technially if someone asked him under oath what kind of cereal he had for breakfast and he said "Frosted Mini Wheats" and then we find out it was actually "Cinnamon Toast Crunch", he would be guilty of purgury again. I don't see anyone going after him for that...
Now obviously it's not the same thing, but let's keep politics political, and personal life personal...
You think Bush would have volutarily come out and said he snorted coke, or had a DUI if he hadn't been caught? I doubt it...
Why would Bush admit to something he never did? The Coke I mean. That whole wild goose chase started with Tom Daschle throwing out a hypothetical situation about investigations. He's says why don't you investigate Bush for using cocaine. If he ever did nobody could prove it. For someone the rank and file left wingers think is sooo dumb W did a pretty good job of covering his tracks. Anyway that was the first I ever heard of that accusation and it was spread by the MoveOn crowd.
As far as Clinton I thought the ultimate outcome was perfect. As the head of the country you can't have a president lying under oath and just sweep it under the rug. I mean this is the guy who appoints the federal judges, he has to respect the laws. Impeachment is about protecting the country, not punishing the president. To impeach but not convict reinforces the notion we are a country of laws, even at the highest level. The impeachment will always be on his record but we were inflicted with president Gore.
Of course Clinton might not be a smart as everyone thinks. All he had to do is go to the camera's and say "hey, Ya'll seen my wife, do you blame me?"

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3255765
Interesting thread.
I became politically "aware" in the late '60s, early '70's. My Lai, the Puebla incident, the Bobby K and Martin Luther King Jr. assasinations, the Tet Offensive, the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, the Watts riots, the Black Panthers, Kent State, the Fall of Saigon, the elimination of the draft (sorta), Woodstock, the Summer of Love, etc.
It was during those seminal years that I realized that our Government has no interest in representing "We the People." Sure, they'll say and do anything to garner those votes, but in the end, it means nothing more than "re-elect me."
Richard Nixon/Henry Kissinger, Jimmy Carter/Zbigniew Brzezinsky, Ronald Reagan/George Schultz, George H. W. Bush/James Baker, taught me well.
It is the State Department which runs our government.
Your frame of reference is close to mine expcept I really didn't really delve into the political side until after Nixons re-election and the Saturday night massecre. I remember Both Kennedy's being shot. Don't remember king. My fine Democrat family weren't fans I guess

 

[oscardeuce]

Dad entered his first election at 32 running for the Ohio Senate. Lost. Lost again for the Ohio House. Ran again in 1980, won that and 5 straight elections. He was very conservative, and he won the "watchdog of the treasury" every term. Somehow won elections in a 55% democrat district by 60-70% of the vote. Straight talk, honesty and personally responding to constitutents goes a long way.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/3255796
Dad entered his first election at 32 running for the Ohio Senate. Lost. Lost again for the Ohio House. Ran again in 1980, won that and 5 straight elections. He was very conservative, and he won the "watchdog of the treasury" every term. Somehow won elections in a 55% democrat district by 60-70% of the vote. Straight talk, honesty and personally responding to constitutents goes a long way.
Well this pretty much explains why oscar leans WAY to the right. So if for any reason you did start moving towards the left, would you still get along with your Dad like Arnuld and Maria do?

 

[stdreb27]

To me, it is really simple, I believe that the intent of the founders was for government to create a framework where people would be responsible for their own self improvement.
Which I think they successfully did. And this new concept in turn created the most powerful and prosperous country in the world.
I believe the conservative philosophy espouses those original ideas. And politically speaking the closest thing we have to that in a party is the republican party.
The rest flows from there.