water parameter question

sufunk

Member
I recently started taking care of my tank, Its a 36g reef.
My water test are:
PH- 7.8
Amm.-0
Nitrites-0
Nitrate-10 (a little high but way down from 200)
Calcium-500
KH- 8.8
Alk.-3.15
I know my Ph is a little low, not sure about Kh and Alk (if they are high or low). What do i need to do to get my water in line?
any suggestions or help would be appreciated, thanks
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by sufunk
I recently started taking care of my tank, Its a 36g reef.
My water test are:
PH- 7.8
Amm.-0
Nitrites-0
Nitrate-10 (a little high but way down from 200)
Calcium-500
KH- 8.8
Alk.-3.15
I know my Ph is a little low, not sure about Kh and Alk (if they are high or low). What do i need to do to get my water in line?
any suggestions or help would be appreciated, thanks

The only good, safe and stable way to increase pH is with proper water changes. Using mixed water aged for at least 24 hrs. Test the pH of the mixed water...you'll be suprised it is around 8 to 8.2. DO NOT use buffer to increase pH.
Judging by your alk and calc, your buffering looks pretty good. The alk could come up a bit, to around 3.5-4, especially if you top off water with fresh water due to evaporation often or have a heavy bio load.
What are you doing for top off water? This is what usually brings down ph if not adjusted for. For example, my tap water is 7.2 or so. I add a gallon a day. Before I add top off water, I use 15ml of alk, 15ml of calc (2 part b-ionic) and add it in...wait a bit, then dump the fresh water in.
Another reason is bio-load...overstocked tanks have troule with pH, because the buffer cant keep up wit the amount of acid added by the fish.
I use b-ionic to help "eat away" at the pH difference. That is what your alk/calc does...it prevents ph dropor in other words "buffers" the water aginst the acid added by top off, and bio load.. If your alk is at 3.15, I can see how it could easily drop the pH if you are adding acidic water or have a heavy bio load.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Also...7.8 isnt all that bad...try and target around 8 or 8.2, but stability is most important! Some people have 7.8 their whole career as a hobbyist.
Raise it slowly by doing a couple of extra water changes with the proper mixed water (24 hrs minimum) and keeping alk/calc in line
 

ctgretzky9

Member
lmao...ok, last post on this subject, i promise...instructional on proper water changes, and here is a link to learn more about water chemistry:
http://www.link violation
Easiest way to get your alk/pH/calc steady is by also doing proper water changes....You will need:
-1 cheap powerhead...like a rio 800 or a smaller maxi jet
-1 cheap heater around 100-150 watt
-1 cheap air pump and stone (somewhat optional)
-1 refractometer if you can...(hydrometers should be outlawed or calibrated against a refractometer)
-5 gal or more bucket for the mixing, another bucket at 5 gal to make it easier to dump in the tank or you can use powerhead.
-salt mix
-good source water-no tap water unless its been tested
-a notepad to track all of your tests
1. fill bucket of any size about half with the water, then add appropriate salt for that amount ( i fill my 5 gal about 3gal worth, then with the instant ocean, I add 1.5 cups of salt) while stirring very well. (Salinity at the rate IO gives you will be around 1.022, thats too low, but more later about that)
Only add the salt to the water, never add water to the salt.
2. Finish adding your water to the bucket, then add appropriate salt again while mixing. At the rate IO gives you (1/2 cup per gallon) your salinity wil be around 1.022. This is when I add about 1/2 cup more to the water in addition to what I've added, and in a 5 gal scenario, it comes out to 1.025, which is about where you want to be.
3. Add powerhead to circulate and airstone to oxygenate (airstone is optional, i like it though)
4. cover and let circulate for around 24 hrs. A couple hours before you will use the replacement water, add the heater. Test salinity after water gets to targeted temperature, which for most is around 80. But acceptable range is around 77-82 give or take, varying opinions from many people.
5. Test salinity. If this is good, I suggest testing this water for ph and alkalinity and calcium and magnesium. This way you know the shortcomings of the mix. DO NOT ADD ANYHING TO THE REPLACEMENT WATER TO ADJUST except salt. It may cause a preciptaion event, which i learned the hard way one day If salinity is too high or too low, either add a little more salt or just unsalted water to adjust. If you must do this, let sit for a little while longer and circulate. Test salinity again.
6. Ready for the change? What I do, is I dump half of the 5gal into another 5 gal bucket, just to make it easier to handle the weight while pouring in. So that's why I have 2. And if you ave purchased a 10 gal mixing bucket or bigger, you could siphon out the water into the 5 gal bucket. You could also use the powerhead (thanks knowse) to pump the water into your tank instead of dumping it in.
7. Drain appropriate amount of water from your tank. Replace with new water.
8. Wait a few hours or so, then test your tank water. Given what you may know is lacking in your replacement water, plus the test on your tank water after replacement, this will give you a good idea what is needed.
Now you can add your b-ionic alk and calcium if needed and any other additives to the tank. Best to wait though to add anythig about 24 hrs and test then. But always test tank water before you add anything, and anything you add, do it slowly. Better to adjust over time than to try and quick fix things.
 

sufunk

Member
I top off with distilled water. I definitely have a large bioload(overstocked) and ive been doing a 10-15% water change every 2-3 days for a month to get the nitrates down.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by sufunk
I top off with distilled water. I definitely have a large bioload(overstocked) and ive been doing a 10-15% water change every 2-3 days for a month to get the nitrates down.
10-15% is not enough if you are overstocked. I suggest 20-25% or even a bit more. The 2-3 days is fine.
Also, be sure you are doing the water changes properly...
What are you using as filtration....though I can probably already guess you are using a floss type filter and not a skimmer more than likely.
 

murph145

Active Member
tell us what your bioload is
i change 5 gallons of water in my 100g once a week
i have a 6" engineer goby
4" hippo tang
3" fuzzy dwarf lionfish
2" mandarin
3" sicscor tail goby
3" tomato clown
2-2" damsils
2-1" damsils
i keep corals fine
but if i were u get a nice skimmer and maybe run some carbon once in a while .... its all about the skimmer
i wouldnt change that much water thats just my opinion thats alot of work lol
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by sufunk
Penguin 170 filter, although im getting either a coralife super skimmer or aqua c remora

Get rid of that...it is a nitrate factory. Filters like this are really meant for freshwater tanks more than marine. They have a place in marine as places to drop carbon or phosphate absorbers, thats about it.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by sufunk
20-25% every 3 days isnt too much?
Anyone else have any suggestions about my water?
lol...no its not too much. You arent going to do it forever...just to help get nitrates down. As long as you are properly mixing the water, all you are doing is adding water that is clean and pure with no phosphates, nitrates or anything else you need to get out of your tank.
If you get a skimmer, you can reduce your water changes to very little, and once a week or less.
As it is, with your filter, the water running through it is just making more nitrates, not removing them.
 

nm reef

Active Member
ctgretsky9....your input and response to this thread are much appreciated....however the link you posted above is a violation of this sites policy. Please refrain from posting such links in the future.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by NM reef
ctgretsky9....your input and response to this thread are much appreciated....however the link you posted above is a violation of this sites policy. Please refrain from posting such links in the future.


You cannot link to scientific articles? It wasnt to a competitors website....
I apologize if that is in violation...just wasnt clear on what can be linked.
 

sufunk

Member
ctgretzky, you said i should get rid of the filter, should i replace it with the skimmer? if i get the skimmer i dont need a filter? Is that right?
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by sufunk
ctgretzky, you said i should get rid of the filter, should i replace it with the skimmer? if i get the skimmer i dont need a filter? Is that right?

It is your decision to keep or dump...but you should take out any media inside it (floss pads, bio balls etc.)
For example, I have a hob (hang on back) wet/dry...it is supposed to have filter medium in it. I leave the medium out because of the nitrate aspect. It basically runs like a powerhead. But it does increase flow at the surface so I keep it for that, and for a place to put carbon when needed, or phosphate sponge when needed, and it is also where I dump in my additives like b-ionic etc so it can get mixed up well before going into the tank.
The skimmer will do wonders for your tank. The coralife super skimmer is a great unit for the money.
 

sufunk

Member
am still considering the coralife but ive read alot of people have trouble with bubbles in the tank so i think im gettin the aqua c but im worried about it heating my tank. see my other thread in reef under "temperature dilemma"
 

ctgretzky9

Member
The aqua c is a great unit...not sure of the heat issue- I actually never heard that before.
The coralife bubble issue is due usually to people not breaking the unit in properly to begin with.
In addition, the bubble diffuser hang on is a silly design. The bubbles seem to escape through the coarse floss they have. I made mine work great, but getting regular fiter floss, and using that in place of what they give you. Works awesome, and I throw it out when it gets dirty rather than have to clean it all out. Floss is cheap.
 

sufunk

Member
OK, explain this to me. I just checked the water im using for water changes PH and its 8.2. Ive done 10-20% water chages every 2 days for the last month to lower nitrates. Why is my PH lowering to 7.8 from the 8.2 water im putting in?
 

ctgretzky9

Member
Originally Posted by sufunk
OK, explain this to me. I just checked the water im using for water changes PH and its 8.2. Ive done 10-20% water chages every 2 days for the last month to lower nitrates. Why is my PH lowering to 7.8 from the 8.2 water im putting in?

Ok, that is good that your change water is 8.2 it means you are doing it properly...
The pH drop is caused by many factors:
Every time you feed the tank, you are adding acid
Every time your fish passes water through their gills, you are adding acid
Every time water passes through your filter, it is adding organic material to break down, which in turn adds acid to your tank.
Every time your fish takes a leak or poops, acid is added to the tank
You are fighting a losing battle because you are either over feeding (how often do you feed and how much would you say...describe)
How often do you change the media in your filter (get rid of it asap and get a skimmer-it will help pH AND trates)
What is your latest reading for alk and calc....remeber, the alk/calc relationship is your buffer against pH drop. If the buffer isnt up to par on a constant basis (keeping it stable), --- can let the pH drop.
Do you have a lot of flow in the tank? What is your gph (gallons per hour)
Is there a hood on the tank? Is the surface being agitated at all?
If you answer all of the above, I can pinpoint the problem quickly.
 
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