Water proofing inside of stand?

[smallreef]

SO,,, when we get moved may set up a new tank. Wanting to know who has had issues and what they have done to waterproof the inside of their stand. Out here in Washington state we have had our power go out and my sump flood. When i built my last stand for my 125g I siliconed all the joints in the bottom and laid 3 coats of oil based Kilz and STILL had water seepage.... SO what I was thinking for my next stand was the rubber tub liner from like Home Depot..Anyone with idea or pictures of what they did??

 

[2quills]

I used a urethane enamel paint to water proof the inside of mine. It's a bit pricey. A cheaper but equally as good route to go would be simply to seal all the inside seams with caulk, prime, paint and then cover your paint with a few coats of polyurethane. It's a common misconception in this hobby that Killz acts as a water proofing sealer. It's a primer used to seal porous materials like wood and drywall in preparation for paint. It has no protective finish or water poofing qualities by itself.

 

[smallreef]

yeah,, i just figured a few coats and being oil based it should be fine with the little bit of evaporation and such.. but was stillllll bad.. and horrible after I had a power outage, lol. Thats why i was thinking of the pan liner... plus i would do a much larger sump.. mine couldnt handle the backflow when the pumps went out..(a 35g for a 125g tank with 2 2inch returns and 2 1200hp pumps)

 

[snakeblitz33]

Why so much return flow?

 

[acrylic51]

Honestly the only way to really make a water tight seal in the bottom of the stand would be to build as your normally would, but to then pour an epoxy coating. This would need to be done with protection underneath till it sets up......Epoxy I know for sure would contain any water from seeping through, but sounds more like the sump wasn't properly setup if it overflowed......
What pumps are you using at 1200hp using 2" returns?????
Another option on sealing your stand would be to coat with enamel paint as suggest, but then line the very bottom with FRP board and the same for the sides and caulk all your joints and seems.....

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389192/water-proofing-inside-of-stand#post_3437696
Honestly the only way to really make a water tight seal in the bottom of the stand would be to build as your normally would, but to then pour an epoxy coating. This would need to be done with protection underneath till it sets up......Epoxy I know for sure would contain any water from seeping through, but sounds more like the sump wasn't properly setup if it overflowed......
What pumps are you using at 1200hp using 2" returns?????
Another option on sealing your stand would be to coat with enamel paint as suggest, but then line the very bottom with FRP board and the same for the sides and caulk all your joints and seems.....
Epoxy isn't the only way Shawn. Poly can be used for the same thing. I just don't think it has the same strength under pressure that an epoxy would. Which is probably why it's frowned upon for tank construction or boat building.

 

[smallreef]

the returns were 2" because thats what was plumbed when I got it.. but the pumps didnt have 2" pipes.. and they were split each 2 ways lots of loss due to height (headloss for 5 ft sucked on them) and they were insump pumps so not that great,, but I digress...
I dont have the tank and stand anymore,,, sold it a while ago when I thought we were gonna move the first time.. But when we move we will be renting a place and I must make sure that there arent ANY water problems...
I probably won't do the epoxy idea for the fact I need it up the sides atleast a few inches and that would be really difficult to do..
What is FRP board? is it a plastic composite or something? Im hoping not like MDF right? that stuff just soaks it up...
I was hoping to see what some other people have done or have thought about... thats kind of why i was thinking about the plastic lining,, I could glue it in on the bottom and up the sides a bit and silicone the cuts id have to make to go in the corners...
Thanks for all the great ideas!

 

[2quills]

I think Al used pond liner under the stand on one of his tanks because it was open to the hardwood floors underneath. That would hold water for sure if it didn't get puncured by anything. Ofcorse, setting up your plumbing in order to avoid a flood in the first place would be a good idea as well.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/389192/water-proofing-inside-of-stand#post_3437716
Epoxy isn't the only way Shawn. Poly can be used for the same thing. I just don't think it has the same strength under pressure that an epoxy would. Which is probably why it's frowned upon for tank construction or boat building.
Corey wasn't questioning poly as far as sealing, but poly in no way is designed for gap filling......Epoxy thickened and poured in a "fillet" fashion along the joints or seams would make the joints water tight. Poly doesn't have the consistency to fill like that IMO.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallreef http:///t/389192/water-proofing-inside-of-stand#post_3437718
the returns were 2" because thats what was plumbed when I got it.. but the pumps didnt have 2" pipes.. and they were split each 2 ways lots of loss due to height (headloss for 5 ft sucked on them) and they were insump pumps so not that great,, but I digress...
I dont have the tank and stand anymore,,, sold it a while ago when I thought we were gonna move the first time.. But when we move we will be renting a place and I must make sure that there arent ANY water problems...
I probably won't do the epoxy idea for the fact I need it up the sides atleast a few inches and that would be really difficult to do..
What is FRP board? is it a plastic composite or something? Im hoping not like MDF right? that stuff just soaks it up...
I was hoping to see what some other people have done or have thought about... thats kind of why i was thinking about the plastic lining,, I could glue it in on the bottom and up the sides a bit and silicone the cuts id have to make to go in the corners...
Thanks for all the great ideas!
atFRP board is basically the stuff they use in shower/tub areas...You can find it at Lowes or HD back where the paneling stuff is. It will be labeled FRP. It has a textured finish.....About $30.00 a sheet the last time I checked. Not hard to cut, but itchy stuff. It is a fiberglass based product. There is a special adhesive to bond it, but I've never used the recommended glue and never had an issue with it bonding. I've used Grab It and Liquid Nails as well. I roll it out with a cheapo foam roller.
The epoxy route can/is easily done.....you would thicken the epoxy and and pour it just in/along the seams where your bottom of the stand would butt up against your vertical pieces.......What you would do is till the stand at a 45 degree angle so it actually seeps into the joint/seam. On your vertical pieces you would do the same tilt at a 45 degree. When I talk about sealing with epoxy I'm talking more about making your joints where your wood butts up to another piece; which is where you'd possibly get water leakage/seepage. Doing a "thickened epoxy" pour on that is water tight.

 

[smallreef]

The shower liner is kinda like pond liner but MUCH thicker..and then all I have is 4 corners to epoxy or silicone...the FRP sounds good for the bottom, but doesn't do much for the side escape?
I will def. Make sure to get a sump that is larger enough this time.
I just made do last time and my triggers were getting to big and needed to be moved and were were moving...it was hectic to say the least.. but next time I will take my time, and I know the stuff I would do differently and better. Better pumps, my husband is going to make some DIY led's for me and I made my stand last time but I want to line it this time....

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/389192/water-proofing-inside-of-stand#post_3437724
Corey wasn't questioning poly as far as sealing, but poly in no way is designed for gap filling......Epoxy thickened and poured in a "fillet" fashion along the joints or seams would make the joints water tight. Poly doesn't have the consistency to fill like that IMO.
You can use a hardner with poly. Not tryin to argue, just sayin. I used it with my paint, first coat mixed very thin, then each coat progressively thicker. Final coat was probably a little thicker than the consistancy of syrup. I don't see why epoxy couldn't be rolled on if the gaps were filled first. Instead of caulking you could always putty all your gaps and roll it. Just throwin options out there.

 

[acrylic51]

I'm following your Corey.......They say rolling epoxy leaves to many pin holes, that's why they don't use that method for plywood builds.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallreef http:///t/389192/water-proofing-inside-of-stand#post_3437735
The shower liner is kinda like pond liner but MUCH thicker..and then all I have is 4 corners to epoxy or silicone...the FRP sounds good for the bottom, but doesn't do much for the side escape?
I will def. Make sure to get a sump that is larger enough this time.
I just made do last time and my triggers were getting to big and needed to be moved and were were moving...it was hectic to say the least.. but next time I will take my time, and I know the stuff I would do differently and better. Better pumps, my husband is going to make some DIY led's for me and I made my stand last time but I want to line it this time....
FRP can/could be used for the sides....They would just need glue into place and then when everything is in place you go back with silicone either clear or white, and again seal all your joints......around the perimeter of the base, up the vertical seams on the side, and so on.....I'll have to dig up a pic, but I did it in my stand build....I don't have any pics showing it vertical. Basically all your worried about containing is the area which the sump sits, in and honestly don't see that area being much deeper then 4"-5" tops....Could be wrong??? The nice thing with the FRP board is that you can wipe it down whenever you see fit. Wipe it down just as you would your shower walls....You can paint is as well if you desire. ABS plastic could work as well, but probably more expensive, and finding it as well.

 

[geoj]

I went through the same thought process as you when I put my tank up. For me I decided to put more effort in setting the sump up so to prevent an overflow then water proofing the stand.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallreef http:///t/389192/water-proofing-inside-of-stand#post_3437735
The shower liner is kinda like pond liner but MUCH thicker..and then all I have is 4 corners to epoxy or silicone...the FRP sounds good for the bottom, but doesn't do much for the side escape?
I will def. Make sure to get a sump that is larger enough this time.
I just made do last time and my triggers were getting to big and needed to be moved and were were moving...it was hectic to say the least.. but next time I will take my time, and I know the stuff I would do differently and better. Better pumps, my husband is going to make some DIY led's for me and I made my stand last time but I want to line it this time....
I agree with Geo.....Setting the sump up properly is the biggest key....Regardless how big the sump is, if poor design/planning in plumbing still could lead to disaster......

 

[2quills]

I also agree with these guys. If you design your plumbing right then you should be able to avoid a flood in the first place. Unless, ofcorse, you run into some type of tank failure. The best way is to keep the outputs/ends of your return plumbing near the surface of the water. That way you can account for the most possible amount of water that will ever back flow into your sump due to a power outage and adjust them accordingly. Relying on things like check valves or one way valves to prevent backflow could be a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[smallreef]

Well unfortunently when I got the tank it had all of the returns and overflows already in it.. the returns were only about 1.5" from the top,, but on a 125g.. that let about 15g drain(plus sometimes they would siphon a bit more),, plus what was in my sump.. only about 1/2 of the 35g.. but just enough to get about 5g in the base of my stand. It never really worked its way out.. but I had siliconed all my edges.. but I was more worried about the plywood (OSB) soaking it up and then it seeping through.. SO.. next time I will do some really nice pumps.. a larger sump.. better/quieter overflows (though mine werent to bad as long as I had my filterpad in there, lol) and umm yeah probably a reef tank next time cuz Id like to be able to have some nice monti and such

 

[acrylic51]

On your returns you could drill small siphon break holes to prevent a large back flow during a power outage.

 

[smallreef]

do ya do that in the top of it im assuming...so once it hits air it'll stop? Thats one thing I never got good at was other than to plumb from here to there... (being that I plumb, lol) and knowing how to build (being that I can construct small things,lol) I dont get alot of the tricks and such ...