Water Storage/Salt Storage

[pezenfuego]

As an aquarist who physically cannot do a three gallon water change (such a small tank), it is very tempting at times to mix a large quantity of water (5-7 gallons) and store it for weeks worth of water changes. You can browse online to find discussions on this very topic with widely varying opinions and reasoning, but it has been a long time since such a discussion has been conducted (and I would argue that a satisfactory one has never arisen), so I would like to start one now. I am less concerned about answers and more concerned about reasoning.
Share your views on:
1) Storing RO/DI water without any circulation.
2) Storing RO/DI water with circulation.
3) Storing mixed saltwater without circulation.
4) Storing mixed saltwater with circulation.
5) Storing mixed saltwater with circulation and heating.
The other issue to address is salt storage. It is common knowledge to store salt in a closed container with a nylon bag full of rice (I hope). But it is not uncommon to get clumping. Phosphates become a concern, but the actual reason why is clouded (at least to me).
Share your views on:
1) Using loose salt that is under a shell of clumped salt.
2) Using clumped salt.

 

[mr. limpid]

These are my views, why I do them is because I've been doing it for 30 years and seam to work. Which doesn't mean it is the best way.
I store RO water in gallon jugs but it goes fast I use up around 8 gallons a week from top off and making coffee.
Saltwater: I make it and use it, but have had it sit for a month which I air rate but not tempered.
Storing Salt Mix: I store on plastic sealed top container with nothing in it. I never had problem with it clumping up. Only if I splash water in it while pour salt into my mixing bucket.

 

[pezenfuego]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/394004/water-storage-salt-storage#post_3506548
These are my views, why I do them is because I've been doing it for 30 years and seam to work. Which doesn't mean it is the best way.
I store RO water in gallon jugs but it goes fast I use up around 8 gallons a week from top off and making coffee.
Saltwater: I make it and use it, but have had it sit for a month which I air rate but not tempered.
Storing Salt Mix: I store on plastic sealed top container with nothing in it. I never had problem with it clumping up. Only if I splash water in it while pour salt into my mixing bucket.
Thank you for your input. At the end of the day, nothing beats personal experience (especially 30 years of it). As far as I understand it, allowing it to clump with water is okay. The problem comes when it clumps from atmospheric moisture. I could be completely wrong though. I (along with most people it would seem) don't understand this sort of thing very well.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/394004/water-storage-salt-storage#post_3506550
Thank you for your input. At the end of the day, nothing beats personal experience (especially 30 years of it). As far as I understand it, allowing it to clump with water is okay. The problem comes when it clumps from atmospheric moisture. I could be completely wrong though. I (along with most people it would seem) don't understand this sort of thing very well.
I believe you are correct atmospheric clumps do not completely dissolve. But the price of salt mix I would throw it in the mixing container anyway. I usually strain my water though a brian shrimp net for my reef tank, so the clump would be caught. On my FO tank I mix a bit more than I need and use the left over for my reef tank.

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/394004/water-storage-salt-storage#post_3506545
Share your views on:
1) Storing RO/DI water without any circulation.
I wouldn't store it more than a month.
2) Storing RO/DI water with circulation.
I wouldn't store it more than a month.
3) Storing mixed saltwater without circulation.
I wouldn't store it more than a month.
4) Storing mixed saltwater with circulation.
I wouldn't store it more than a month.
5) Storing mixed saltwater with circulation and heating.
I wouldn't store it more than a month.
The other issue to address is salt storage. It is common knowledge to store salt in a closed container with a nylon bag full of rice (I hope). But it is not uncommon to get clumping. Phosphates become a concern, but the actual reason why is clouded (at least to me).
Share your views on:
1) Using loose salt that is under a shell of clumped salt.
I wouldn't worry about that at all.
2) Using clumped salt.
I think it's OK to use but if you see undissolved particulates in the mixing bucket the resulting water is low in Alkalinity, Magnesium, and Calcium. No super low but you may need to supplement the tank after adding it.

 

[acrylic51]

Very cool topic of discussion IMO.......Bang curious as to why your against or would be against storing RO water as long as it was sealed and aerated.......

 

[pezenfuego]

Furthermore, how does the water become unusable? Is it the lack of a good seal? Is it the biological or chemical reactions that ruin the water? What's going on here?

 

[acrylic51]

I might have reservations with storing saltwater, but RO as long as it's sealed/covered and aerated would seem fine......

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394004/water-storage-salt-storage#post_3507183
Very cool topic of discussion IMO.......Bang curious as to why your against or would be against storing RO water as long as it was sealed and aerated.......
It depends on what you are storing it in really. A sealed glass or ceramic container would be fine for as long as you want. Most people use plastic containers. Both RO and saltwater are corrosive so over time you're going to get chemical leaching into the water.

 

[acrylic51]

I'm not a chemist by any means, but how is water corrosive to big plastic storage containers.....

 

[bang guy]

RO water will dissolve anything, even glass.
The month is just my opinion. It's not rooted in cement but I have seen PO4 levels increase in water stored in plastic containers. Not much but it that can be pulled out what else is leaching into the water?
Fill your container with RO water, test the conductivity. Test it again a month later. I'll gladly accept that I'm wrong but first show me your numbers.

 

[saxman]

I'd stick with mixing 3 gals at a time, aerate overnight and use it up...that's pretty easy for WC's. You can put a 3 gal line on your bucket to make it easy.
We store both RO/DI and mixed SW in large "earthquake preparedness" barrels (like 55 gals for the FW and 35 gals SW)...in fact, we have two for FW and 2 for SW. The SW barrels contain mixing pumps, but not the FW barrels. Granted, we go thru a LOT more water than most folks, but we've never had any troubles storing water. We used to used those translucent white 5 gal carboys, but the large barrels are better for us.
I know a person who had some trouble with his top-off water in a large barrel, but it turns out the barrel needed cleaning, as it developed some type of dark film on the bottom (probably a NPS algae/bacteria). Once that was cleaned out, his NO3 and PO4 were back to normal.
As for using clumped salt...if it's really bad, we toss it, otherwise, be sure to mix the ENTIRE container of salt, as "like" constituents tend to clump together, which is why you sometimes hear of the chemistry being out of whack if peeps pick around the clumps. Also, be sure to mix the salt into the FULL amount of water, as some brands will precipitate calcium when there isn't enuff water to dissolve it all.
That's how we roll...

 

[bang guy]

Quote:
mix the ENTIRE container of salt, as "like" constituents tend to clump together, which is why you sometimes hear of the chemistry being out of whack if peeps pick around the clumps.
Good tip. I've never thought of that.

 

[beaslbob]

I just stored my saltwater in the aquarium.
Does that count?

 

[pezenfuego]

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/394004/water-storage-salt-storage#post_3507514
I just stored my saltwater in the aquarium.
Does that count?
As that is an aerated glass or acrylic container, I wouldn't think that would count. Then again, how many plastic components do we have in our aquariums? That's a valid question.

 

[florida joe]

Quote:
Then again, how many plastic components do we have in our aquariums?
Any pump you utilize in your system is most likely housed in plastic with plastic components

 

[pezenfuego]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/394004/water-storage-salt-storage#post_3507926
Any pump you utilize in your system is most likely housed in plastic with plastic components
Yes, exactly my point. Storing saltwater in plastic containers shouldn't be much different, right? I'm still way out of my element here and a tad confused about everything.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PEZenfuego http:///t/394004/water-storage-salt-storage#post_3507942
I'm still way out of my element here and a tad confused about everything.
Me too...and why I have been lurking, followimg this thread, waiting to see how the question is answered. Good topic by the way...thank you.
I use a 37g plastic garbage can (marked fish only). I keep RO water in the container 100% of the time and add salt to mix when I want to do water changes (also I use a power head to churn and move the water). Since my health has declined, the mixed water sometimes sits for over a month. I don't have a reef tank anymore or I'm sure I would have big issues. However I keep seahorses and macroalgae in both tanks. I do use all the mix and not pick around the clumps on salt that gets clumped together...I get a film on the bottom of the container but the tests results all read that everything is at the right parameter.