Wet/Dry or Fuge/Sump

[ballardboi]

Everyone,
I am new to the board and extremely happy that I have found this site. I have just purchased a 150G tank. The store has been pushing to go with a Wet/Dry and just recommend cleaning the Bio's every other month.. I have read so many "mixed" opinions. As I plan on a reef/fish friendly tank.
What are your opinions. Should I go with the preset Wet/Dry or should I build some type of Sump. Any ideas would be appreciated. I am not afraid to get my hands dirty and build something but I am obviously new to this. I have looked at many threads but a lot of the designs are not showing up, maybe age of the thread.
The tank has two corner overflows predrilled.
Here is what I have.
AI Sol White (3 units) - I am think i should get 1 more unit on this since the tank is deep. 72 long 18 deep.
Mag Drive 12 for the return
EShopps Protein Skimmer
Turbo Twist Sterilizer
Let me know your thoughts as any advice would be great.

 

[beaslbob]

While I did use a wet/dry and a refugium, I don't recommend store bought stuff.
That said, what I did was cut out the bottom of a waste basket and replace with with plastic window screening. I then filled it with crushed oyster shells for my wet dry. (oyster shells buffered calcium but I eventually wound up dosing anyway.)
My refugium was just a $5 plastic storage container with the long end sticking out the back of the stand so the wet/dry wastebasket could be added. So the over flow droped straight down to the wet/dry which then emptied into the refigium.
Just what I came up with.
my .02

 

[ballardboi]

Thanks appreciate the feedback. Very helpful!

 

[beth]

What kind of system are you planning to have?
My preference is always natural filters over mechanical filters that you have to always be changing media and cleaning.
A sump for your equipment would be an excellent idea, and you can keep some other stuff in the sump if you want to get creative. A refugium is also an excellent choice for a natural filter and they are fun to cultivate.

 

[snakeblitz33]

For a 150g, you should have ample room for a 55g sump. Building it yourself is a matter of getting some glass baffles cut and smearing on some silicone - it's not a really bid deal. You can typically pick up a used 55g tank for about $25-50 dollars if you look on C-list. I would stay away from a wet/dry filter - because they do require so much maintenance. I don't know about you, but pulling out 300 little blue balls and washing them every month or two is a pain in the butt!!! I'd much rather have some basic mechanical filter such as some quilters batting (what I use and it's cheap!!) or even a filter sock clip on for your DIY sump. Mechanical filtration is important to keep a clean sump, but not necessary with a refugium and a fully maintained sandbed.
Personally, if I had a 55g tank to set a sump up in, I'd put my mechanical filtration and protein skimmer in the first chamber of the sump - and then I would have a really long "run time" through a refugium with macroalgae and then have the last section as a return pump chamber. I'd also make room in the stand for an Auto Top Off system. Because a 150g with a sump will definitely create a lot of evaporation. You will want an ATO so that you will only have to fill the reservoir every five to seven days instead of the sump every single day - perhaps twice a day.
I have no idea why you went with an Eshopps protein skimmer.. While they do have good cheap overflow boxes, their protein skimmers really lack in any actual skimming capacity. It's like buying a 1988 oldsmobile when you can afford a 2012 chevy impala. But, you will discover this with time. For the money, I highly recommend the Reef Octopus brand skimmers. I have a diablo 160 - which is rated for a 160g aquarium, and it works like a charm. They are solid built and the pumps that come with them are the most important (and most expensive) thing. Italian made Sicce PSK600 pumps are typical octopus cone skimmers these days.
Since you are planning on having a reef tank - you will also want powerheads for water circulation. Water flow isn't just as simple as putting a powerhead or two in your tank and letting it move the water around - they have to be goal oriented. The purposes of water flow is to carry nutrients and waste to and from your corals, provide o2 and co2 where necessary and to remove detritus from rocks and into your mechanical filtration. I don't have one, but I highly recommend getting a Vortech MP40 OR you could look into some variable flow Tunze powerheads. As long as you stay within a 20x to 30x internal turnover rate in your tank you should be fine with any coral that you want. There will be some places that have high flow and some places that have low flow - and you will need to know approximately what locations certain corals do best in.
You will also need a set of materials to do tank maintenance...
credit card scraper - or one of those things with the long handle you can buy at the store.
turkey baster
powerhead for mixing saltwater
salt - like instant ocean or reef crystals
1 cup and 1/2 cup measuring cups
RO/DI Unit with TDS meter and extra filters
Mixing container - such as a food grade plastic container or seperate aquarium
vinyl tubing for water changes (I like to use a powerhead to not only mix the salt, but also to pump the new saltwater into the display tank.)
timers or a controller to monitor and control all of your lights.
digital temperature probe
Two medium sized heaters about 200w each - I like Jager heaters - which have proven to me over the years to be effective and high quality.
refugium in your sump with macroalgae like Chaetomorpha or a breed of caulerpa that is legal in your state.
Refugium lighting - such as a high powered CFL bulb that puts out a minimum of 1600 lumens. One per square foot.
You may want to install a GFCI Unit on your power outlet - so that you can avoid getting shocked or electrocuting your fish.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Beth,
Why not utilize both mechanical filters and natural filtration through refugiums? I find that a refugium's sand bed becomes ineffective over time through the build up of detritus that would normally be removed through mechanical filtration...
Just curious. I know of no-filter tanks and have done them myself... but I can see problems with it over time unless there is maintenance involved.

 

[bang guy]

The main reason I have not used mechanical filtration is that it removes too many critters. Either the smaller critters themselves or their offspring and eggs.

 

[ballardboi]

Beth - I planned on going with both actually. As of course there will be a lot of LR in the aquarium but planned on the same for the Sump along with a good base of sand and macro to help aid in clean up removal etc. What do you recommend for the natural filters and what position in the sump?
SnakeBlitz33 - I actually haven't bought any of the materials per say, Tank only, I wanted to get opinions on everything before I ordered. I appreciate the advice on the skimmer, it is so funny how some people rave about a product and others would never recommend it.
On the Sump do you just recommend the intake section with just filtration media and protein skimmer, then baffles into the center section that has the LR and Sand, macro etc, then overflowing into the end section with the return pump?
Do you recommend the UV Sterilizer also, or is this something that isn't needed? Again I see some people swear by them and others not.
What are your thoughts on the lighting, do you think 3 is enough or should I get 4?

 

[ballardboi]

I plan on building a sump a lot like the Eshopps Refugium 300. Would something like this work, i plan on using the intake section to house the Skimmer and the middle section to put the sand and the LR and macro. Would something this simple work?

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballardboi http:///t/393689/wet-dry-or-fuge-sump#post_3502972
Beth - I planned on going with both actually. As of course there will be a lot of LR in the aquarium but planned on the same for the Sump along with a good base of sand and macro to help aid in clean up removal etc. What do you recommend for the natural filters and what position in the sump?
SnakeBlitz33 - I actually haven't bought any of the materials per say, Tank only, I wanted to get opinions on everything before I ordered. I appreciate the advice on the skimmer, it is so funny how some people rave about a product and others would never recommend it.
On the Sump do you just recommend the intake section with just filtration media and protein skimmer, then baffles into the center section that has the LR and Sand, macro etc, then overflowing into the end section with the return pump?
Do you recommend the UV Sterilizer also, or is this something that isn't needed? Again I see some people swear by them and others not.
What are your thoughts on the lighting, do you think 3 is enough or should I get 4?
Eh, Eshopps is like Diet Right soda, Dr. Thunder or Shasta cola. It's cheap and offbrand. It will taste kind of like the real thing, but not quite good enough. I hope you enjoy my analogy and don't think about drinking skimmate.
That's what I would do if I were setting up a 55g sump - which is what I highly recommend. I would also recommend buying the Reef Octopus Diablo XS160 cone skimmer as well for your tank. It will be just the right fit, and able to fit in the 55g sump without any problems.
UV's are for fish stores and large fish wholesalers... they have their place, I just don't think that place is in a home aquarium. There are much better methods for controlling disease an algal outbreaks... like using quarantine systems and macroalgaes with good husbandry skills.
But, that's just me, I don't know much of anything these days. lol

 

[snakeblitz33]

Ah, I almost forgot... I didn't answer your light question...

never used them. Though, I assume that they do a pretty good job, even though your aquarium is tall. I wouldn't expect to put a species of acropora on the absolute bottom of the tank and expect it to grow much - with any kind of lighting.
I would keep what I have for now and see how the corals grow and reproduce for the time being. If necessary in the future you may want to add another one, but for now I think you are fine. more than fine.

 

[ballardboi]

Thanks I really appreciate it. Went out and got a 55g for the sump, thinking of adding a small fuge next to it also. I am also going to pursue the protein skimmer that you mentioned. I really appreciate all of your help on answering the questions. I should have everything this weekend. I will let you know how it goes. Should be interesting to see me setting it up.
Do you recommend just using the flexible hosing for the intake and returns from both sides of the tank or should I PVC it to allow for proper shutoffs etc?
Will take some pictures once I have it all set up to see if you recommend anything else that I will most likely miss.

 

[snakeblitz33]

make sure you put your sump all the way over to one side of your stand. This helps you have extra room for other equipment. I recommend using PVC over vinyl - vinyl gets hard over time, and if there is any light from a refugium shining on it, it will build up algae and other organics. PVC also builds up organics on the inside of it - but not near as much as if it were exposed to light. I know one aquarist who completely replaces all of his PVC plumbing once every two-three years. lol. That's pretty extreme in my opinion, but he is a plumber by profession, so I can see where his obsession might come from.

 

[ballardboi]

Good point, I never looked at it this way. Plumbing here I come!!!

 

[acrylic51]

I think you might be fine with 3 AI units....comes down to height of units over the tank.....an 18" tank isn't very deep IMO. As Seth mentioned skip the UV....actually take the UV money and if you see fit throw it down on another AI unit if you need it.....

 

[ballardboi]

So what do you think. Sorry pictures aren't great. The sump will be approx 11.5 inches deep. Over, under, over on the first set of baffles, the second set that leads to the return pump I only did an over, then under. Will this be okay? I can always add change etc. Thanks for the input. I have a 10k T5 for the Sump.
55 Sump for my 150G tank.

 

[acrylic51]

Looks good!!!!!! Your going to have to raise the skimmer which I'm sure your already aware of, and the other thing that I would change would be the last baffles.....Theoretically you only really need 1, but it would be better if the water came over the last baffle vs under.....I say that being if there were bubbles were to get to that point by you forcing the water over and then under IMO your forcing bubbles down right about the same height possibly allowing your return pump to pick them up easier and quicker.....With the water dropping over slightly the bubbles wouldn't be forced as deep and would have a chance to rise and pop before being sucked up by the return pump.....Just my .02

 

[ballardboi]

The oddest thing with that skimmer it the first baffle is between the Min water line and the Max water line. I was figuring that I would have to raise it anyway. I was a little shocked how how "high" the water line was on skimmer. Thanks again, I was thinking of adding that last baffle just in case the air bubbles make it through the entire sump. Thanks for the .02.

 

[acrylic51]

The min-max line on the skimmer has nothing to really do with the depth of water the skimmer sits in......When the skimmer manufacturer talks about 5.50" - 6.50" of water is talking more about the depth the pump sit in the water......That min - max level is for you setting the water height in the skimmer body......

 

[snakeblitz33]

Bingo.
I have my diablo XS160 in 7.5" of operating depth and it is working just fine. Making a little skimmer stand out of acrylic would be ideal, but you probably could get away with sitting it on top of a couple of short glass baffles ... there are other ideas out there too that would also work for a skimmer stand.
That's a very nice, large refugium that you have right there. Perfect for whatever you want to throw at it. Thank you for listening to our advise.
Looks like you are well on your way towards a happy, healthy tank.