Wet/Dry w/bio-balls to Live-rock or Refugium?

pimpin chirp

pimpin chirp

Member
Hello everyone I have a 100 gallon beginners reef wit a few small mushrooms 2 anemones, and some small polyps that has been running for about 2 months now I have about 60lbs of live rock inside it along with a few fish 2 clowns, a lawnmower blenny, an engineer goby, yellow tang, and a coral banded shrimp. I have been doing alot of reading on the advantages of using live rock as oppose to bioballs in my wet dry filter based oin spikes in nitrate levels. Is my live rock inside the tank enough to combat those nitrate spikes or should i make the change? How would I go about this transition? Would the live rock need to be completely submerged or should i have the water trickle over them as I do the bio-balls? Also what about making it into a refugium the idea of having a mini-tank is cool what steps would I need to take to make this a success? My filter is a pro-clear 150gallon with pre-filter? Thanks.
 
ric maniac

ric maniac

Active Member
i would definately replace the bio balls. they are nitrate traps. the live rock can be fully submereged or partioally submerged. mine are partially submerged in my 6g nano. also on a side note, what kind of lighting do you have? and how long has this tank been set up? anemones need strong light and mature tanks.
 
S

swalchemist

Guest
Live Rock or Bio balls partially submerged makes no difference, if nitrates are there they are there. The idea is to not have anything that produces nitrates reach the media and collect there in the first place i.e fish waste food etc. I have run bio-balls for years with no noticeable or appreciative nitrates so I really disagree with the whole often quoted never fully understood "nitrate factory" explanation. If you are really worried about it rinse the media off as you do a water change. Keep your sumps as clean as the main tank and there will be no nitrates at all, trust me it works.
 
lexluethar

lexluethar

Active Member
Originally Posted by SWAlchemist
Live Rock or Bio balls partially submerged makes no difference, if nitrates are there they are there. The idea is to not have anything that produces nitrates reach the media and collect there in the first place i.e fish waste food etc. I have run bio-balls for years with no noticeable or appreciative nitrates so I really disagree with the whole often quoted never fully understood "nitrate factory" explanation. If you are really worried about it rinse the media off as you do a water change. Keep your sumps as clean as the main tank and there will be no nitrates at all, trust me it works.
I agree, bioballs do not create nitrates, food and waste does - something that can get traped in both live rocks and bioballs. Just make sure to have ample filtration before the water reaches this stage.
 
steeliathunder

steeliathunder

Member
i have been wondering about this myself. i have converted a HOB (emperor 400) filter into a sort-of fuge for my 10. live rock in there instead of filter pads and cages, and cheato (on the way) with a clamp light.
im setting up a 42 gallon with a wet/dry i have, and was considering doing the same... replace bio balls with lr and add macro. the crowd seems 50/50 on the bio ball situation in many threads.
question is... doesn't the lr add more benefit with micro-organisms, or do they live in the bio balls too? i'd love to save $ on lr in the filter if it really has no extra benefit. i'll put cheato in there either way since i will be growing it.
 
S

swalchemist

Guest
Just be sure to use some form of mechanical waste removal before the water goes to the media i.e. filter pads and replace them weekly. I see little use for LR in there if you want rock though why not use base rock? It's cheaper & acts as a home for pods and bacteria and one pound can be broken up into many smaller pieces.
 
pimpin chirp

pimpin chirp

Member
Originally Posted by ric maniac
i would definately replace the bio balls. they are nitrate traps. the live rock can be fully submereged or partioally submerged. mine are partially submerged in my 6g nano. also on a side note, what kind of lighting do you have? and how long has this tank been set up? anemones need strong light and mature tanks.
I have an odyssea 72" Power compact light with 2 48inch actinic bulbs and 2 12,000k bulbs and 10 LED moonlights.I run the lights on a timer the actinic bulbs for 11hrs and the 12,000k bulbs for 9 hours doing the whole sunrise sunset thing I read about then I run the LED lights at night. The tank has been up and running for 2 months now.
 
pimpin chirp

pimpin chirp

Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
I agree, bioballs do not create nitrates, food and waste does - something that can get traped in both live rocks and bioballs. Just make sure to have ample filtration before the water reaches this stage.
You mention having ample filtration before it reaches this stage. What do you suggest? I have my wet/dry set-up the way the factory manual told me to set it up. Overflow box in the tank with a little prefilter pad then it falls into the wet/dry over another filter pad then it trickles over the bio balls goes thru another filter pad then returns back into the DT. What type of media changes or additions would you suggest?
 
lexluethar

lexluethar

Active Member
It sounds like you have ample filtration before the water gets to your bio filtration (bioballs/LR). I think the arguement is people think it is a nitrate factory because they DONT have ample mechanical filtration so that food and waste build up in those bioballs.
I think you have enough filtration, just make sure to change / clean those pads every week.
 
S

swalchemist

Guest
Your right Luether, in fact most people who have nitrate problems are usually the ones who have removed there pre-filter pad "because it gets to dirty?" So naturally detritus has to go somewhere and what better place then those partially submerged bio-balls? I agree you have the right pre-filter and should see no problems what so ever with nitrates as long as you replace it frequently. Now if you are really worried about waste and on some systems you need to be. Especially if they are big with big fish (Tangs) or SPS systems. Place a strong powerhead in the sump something like a Tunze Nanostream 6025 or 6045 it will ensure detritus cannot settle in at the bottom of the sump. It will be forced back into the main system where again the filter and skimmer will pull it out. Run this with pure RO/DI water and you will have near 0 algae and incredible water conditions.
 
pimpin chirp

pimpin chirp

Member
Originally Posted by SWAlchemist
Your right Luether, in fact most people who have nitrate problems are usually the ones who have removed there pre-filter pad "because it gets to dirty?" So naturally detritus has to go somewhere and what better place then those partially submerged bio-balls? I agree you have the right pre-filter and should see no problems what so ever with nitrates as long as you replace it frequently. Now if you are really worried about waste and on some systems you need to be. Especially if they are big with big fish (Tangs) or SPS systems. Place a strong powerhead in the sump something like a Tunze Nanostream 6025 or 6045 it will ensure detritus cannot settle in at the bottom of the sump. It will be forced back into the main system where again the filter and skimmer will pull it out. Run this with pure RO/DI water and you will have near 0 algae and incredible water conditions.
Well I actually have 2 pumps running in my sump a Rio 2500 and a Rio 1700. In order for it to not blow bubbles continuously into the tank I have two U-tubes in my overflow box pulling water of the DT down into the Wet dry is that enough movement to prevent detrius from settling in the bottom
 
scrapman

scrapman

Member
Originally Posted by SteeliaThunder
i have been wondering about this myself. i have converted a HOB (emperor 400) filter into a sort-of fuge for my 10. live rock in there instead of filter pads and cages, and cheato (on the way) with a clamp light.


I plan to do the exact same thing to breed copepods for a future green mandarin.... this tanks is a 20 gal long LS/LR... only crabs now.... it has ample filtration....
Do you think this filter/fuge idea is OK for breeding copepods? I think they will regularly pushed overboard by the regulated gentle flow of the filter pump...
What do I put in the limited space of the filter?
- one spoon of LS, somme LR rubbles, a bunch of chaeto?????
Thank for your input
 
S

swalchemist

Guest
"...is that enough movement to prevent detritus from settling in the bottom..."
Sounds good, see if there is any accumulation of detritus that is how you will know for sure.
"Do you think this filter/fuge idea is OK for breeding copepods?"
Yes it will work fine
"What do I put in the limited space of the filter?"
Lots of chaeto but make sure it moves, it grows best in currents.
 
steeliathunder

steeliathunder

Member
Originally Posted by scrapman
I plan to do the exact same thing to breed copepods for a future green mandarin.... this tanks is a 20 gal long LS/LR... only crabs now.... it has ample filtration....
Do you think this filter/fuge idea is OK for breeding copepods? I think they will regularly pushed overboard by the regulated gentle flow of the filter pump...
What do I put in the limited space of the filter?
- one spoon of LS, somme LR rubbles, a bunch of chaeto?????
Thank for your input
im a beginner with the whole fuge thing, but i saw this thread:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/288407/my-hob-filter-refugium-project
so i made one. i wouldnt want to put sand in there. maybe a bag of "miracle mud" ?
you can adjust the rate of flow with mine.
dont know if that helps, im still trying to figure this stuff out too.
 
scrapman

scrapman

Member
Originally Posted by SteeliaThunder
im a beginner with the whole fuge thing, but i saw this thread:
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=288407
so i made one. i wouldnt want to put sand in there. maybe a bag of "miracle mud" ?
you can adjust the rate of flow with mine.
dont know if that helps, im still trying to figure this stuff out too.

Thanks for the link.... very interesting, but don't understand why he/she is putting an egg crate in the filter cavity....
Re the flow.... understand that you can adjust.... understand that chaeto require a flow.... the difficult fine tuning is to grow copepods and have only a few washed over (for fish food) on a given period of time.
Any idea on this fine tuning??
 
steeliathunder

steeliathunder

Member
Originally Posted by scrapman
Thanks for the link.... very interesting, but don't understand why he/she is putting an egg crate in the filter cavity....
Re the flow.... understand that you can adjust.... understand that chaeto require a flow.... the difficult fine tuning is to grow copepods and have only a few washed over (for fish food) on a given period of time.
Any idea on this fine tuning??
i think the egg crate is to keep the cheato from flowing into the tank.
maybe stir the cheato lightly and increase flow for a bit for "feedings"?
maybe someone with more experience with copepods can give their opinion.
 
scrapman

scrapman

Member
Originally Posted by SteeliaThunder
i think the egg crate is to keep the cheato from flowing into the tank.
maybe stir the cheato lightly and increase flow for a bit for "feedings"?
maybe someone with more experience with copepods can give their opinion.

make sense.... thanks!
 
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