what does my powder blue have?
- Thread starter sask
- Start date
Most likely head and lateral line erosion. Give some more info about what this looks like, and some info about your tank and what you are feeding the tang.
How long have you had the tang? Does the effected area look like a growth or, rather, an eroded area on the fish skin...as if someone took an eraser and rubbed off the colorful scales exposing the skin beneath?
How long have you had the tang? Does the effected area look like a growth or, rather, an eroded area on the fish skin...as if someone took an eraser and rubbed off the colorful scales exposing the skin beneath?
sask
New Member
beth;
It looks more like an abrasion than anything. My husband is convinced it is just that - an abrasion - I live life on the more paranoid side of things. Our tank is only 5 months old. We have 150 pounds of figi live rock - which we have had an incredible amount of green algae grow and an algae that looks almost like a sea-weed that has air bubbles that make it float. So the tangs are always nibbling on it. We have a protein skimmer and a uv sterilizer. I'm checking alk, calcium and mag on a weekly basis - with only the mag being a bit low lately. The powder blue readily eats flake food (which I hear they don't always) and we give them brine shrimp twice a week. So far the abrasion is only in one spot - level with his eye but further back on his body. thanks for any advice you can give me!
heather
It looks more like an abrasion than anything. My husband is convinced it is just that - an abrasion - I live life on the more paranoid side of things. Our tank is only 5 months old. We have 150 pounds of figi live rock - which we have had an incredible amount of green algae grow and an algae that looks almost like a sea-weed that has air bubbles that make it float. So the tangs are always nibbling on it. We have a protein skimmer and a uv sterilizer. I'm checking alk, calcium and mag on a weekly basis - with only the mag being a bit low lately. The powder blue readily eats flake food (which I hear they don't always) and we give them brine shrimp twice a week. So far the abrasion is only in one spot - level with his eye but further back on his body. thanks for any advice you can give me!
heather
HLLE does looks like an abrasion...as if the skin has been scrapped off. Where exactly is this discoloration? What color?
I can say, that flaked foods and brine shrimp is not going to cut it for a tang. Tangs are herbivores [vegetarians] and need to eat marine based vegetable matter all day long. Get Seaweed Selects, or seaweed products, like Nori, that you can find in the Oriental section of the grocery store. A lot of LR will has macroalgae on it. Does yours? This is the best food source for tangs. Go to a vegetarian diet rather than what you are offering him and see if the situation improves. Additionally, if you can get Zoe or Zoecon supplements, use it. This is an excellent food supplement for fish, and particularly tangs. You will soak the fish's food in it.
Also, get a grounding probe for your tank, if you don't already have one.
I can say, that flaked foods and brine shrimp is not going to cut it for a tang. Tangs are herbivores [vegetarians] and need to eat marine based vegetable matter all day long. Get Seaweed Selects, or seaweed products, like Nori, that you can find in the Oriental section of the grocery store. A lot of LR will has macroalgae on it. Does yours? This is the best food source for tangs. Go to a vegetarian diet rather than what you are offering him and see if the situation improves. Additionally, if you can get Zoe or Zoecon supplements, use it. This is an excellent food supplement for fish, and particularly tangs. You will soak the fish's food in it.
Also, get a grounding probe for your tank, if you don't already have one.
sask
New Member
Elizabeth;
the lesion is behind his eye, right by his fin. It is a whitish colour, but not bright. I talked to the saltwater dealer in town about seaweed selects, but he said with the amount of algae our LR is growing, the tang probably didn't need it. He does graze on it throughout the day. How will I know if it is getting worse - will he develop more lesions? Will it clear up on it's own if he is happy with his diet? And what is a grounding probe??
heather
the lesion is behind his eye, right by his fin. It is a whitish colour, but not bright. I talked to the saltwater dealer in town about seaweed selects, but he said with the amount of algae our LR is growing, the tang probably didn't need it. He does graze on it throughout the day. How will I know if it is getting worse - will he develop more lesions? Will it clear up on it's own if he is happy with his diet? And what is a grounding probe??
heather
If the algae in your tank that is being eaten by the tang is microalgae then this has little, if any, nutrition needed by tangs....The fact that your tang is willing to eat it shows that the fish is desparate for some nutritional vegetable material. Tangs need macroalgae.
Here is a link to some extensive articles on HLLE. Be sure to also follow the links on the right side of the page which also deals with HLLE.
<a href="http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa040901.htm" target="_blank">HLLE</a>
Additionally, check out some pics of a tang with HLLE and see if this is what you have [note that HLLE starts with just a single effected area, and these fish are examples of the disease in a prgressive stage--though not the worst]
<a href="http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/hlle_groupa.html" target="_blank">Pics HLLE</a>
Here is a link to some extensive articles on HLLE. Be sure to also follow the links on the right side of the page which also deals with HLLE.
<a href="http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa040901.htm" target="_blank">HLLE</a>
Additionally, check out some pics of a tang with HLLE and see if this is what you have [note that HLLE starts with just a single effected area, and these fish are examples of the disease in a prgressive stage--though not the worst]
<a href="http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/hlle_groupa.html" target="_blank">Pics HLLE</a>
smalltimer
Member
GROUNDING PROBE MIGHT BE THE ANSWER
A grounding probe is a titaniam probe attached to what looks like a plug that you put in the wall but only the ground has a metal end the other two are plastic. If you have an electrical meter, put one lead in the tank, the other to the ground hole in the electrical socket, it is the round one below the 2 up and down ones. If your pumps are running you will likley read VOLTAGE. YES, VOLTAGE IN THE WATER. Now leave the probes the same and put in the grounding probe (you can find these at any good salt water fish store) the pet smarts do not carry that stuff. Now you will read no voltage. The voltage in the water stresses your fish and can cause laterial line disease, which usually starts at the head. NOT to mention that if you have (like I DID 48 VOLTS) with out grounding probe, you are in the water, your foot touches an a/c vent on floor, or even the screw in the plate that covers a wall outlet, you become the ground for some 48 plus volts, don't sound like much, but you WILL NOT LIKE IT.......
need I say more, go shopping spitlerbrian@rhtc.net
A grounding probe is a titaniam probe attached to what looks like a plug that you put in the wall but only the ground has a metal end the other two are plastic. If you have an electrical meter, put one lead in the tank, the other to the ground hole in the electrical socket, it is the round one below the 2 up and down ones. If your pumps are running you will likley read VOLTAGE. YES, VOLTAGE IN THE WATER. Now leave the probes the same and put in the grounding probe (you can find these at any good salt water fish store) the pet smarts do not carry that stuff. Now you will read no voltage. The voltage in the water stresses your fish and can cause laterial line disease, which usually starts at the head. NOT to mention that if you have (like I DID 48 VOLTS) with out grounding probe, you are in the water, your foot touches an a/c vent on floor, or even the screw in the plate that covers a wall outlet, you become the ground for some 48 plus volts, don't sound like much, but you WILL NOT LIKE IT.......
need I say more, go shopping spitlerbrian@rhtc.net
sask
New Member
beth;
I have gotten the zoe vitamins for my powder blue and also some green seaweed selects - he has been eating both the last few days. Although since we last talked he has developed 2 new lesions - one on his very bottom fin - does this still sound like HLLE?? The dealer in town said I may be dealing with marine velvet- which I think is b.s. - he isn't rubbing against any rocks, he has no gold spots, he is still active and eating and no other fish have been affected. The affected lesions are the same as we talked about earlier - like an eraser - a rubbed off whitish, circular area. Any advice is appreciated!
heather
I have gotten the zoe vitamins for my powder blue and also some green seaweed selects - he has been eating both the last few days. Although since we last talked he has developed 2 new lesions - one on his very bottom fin - does this still sound like HLLE?? The dealer in town said I may be dealing with marine velvet- which I think is b.s. - he isn't rubbing against any rocks, he has no gold spots, he is still active and eating and no other fish have been affected. The affected lesions are the same as we talked about earlier - like an eraser - a rubbed off whitish, circular area. Any advice is appreciated!
heather
Terry, the fish isn't scratching .
You said there were 2 lesions, one on the fin. Where is the other? And what does the fin lesion look like? What about the grounding probe? Are you getting one? All tanks should have this, regardless of HLLE. They are really not expensive, so I'd suggest you find and get one asap. It will need to be connected into a grounded electrical outlet.
Did you look at the pic link I sent you? Does the lesions on that fish look like what you are dealing with?
What type of lighing do you have in your tank?
You said there were 2 lesions, one on the fin. Where is the other? And what does the fin lesion look like? What about the grounding probe? Are you getting one? All tanks should have this, regardless of HLLE. They are really not expensive, so I'd suggest you find and get one asap. It will need to be connected into a grounded electrical outlet.
Did you look at the pic link I sent you? Does the lesions on that fish look like what you are dealing with?
What type of lighing do you have in your tank?
sask
New Member
beth;
the third lesion is pretty much exactly on the opposite side of the p.b from where the first lesion appeared. Level with the eye, but further back on the body. The fin lesion doesn't look as bad - actually neither of the 2 new ones were as bad as the first. It has that eraser look. Our grounding probe is on order -should be here asap. It seems like the last few days he has been more active (or maybe I'm just making him nervous staring at him all the time!) He is still eating lots and no other fish are affected. Our lights are VHO's. The picture you linked me to were tough to call - whether that is what it was. But I searched some other sights on HLLE and some of those pics did look a bit familar. It is so hard to diagnose these things through descriptions isn't it!!
heather
the third lesion is pretty much exactly on the opposite side of the p.b from where the first lesion appeared. Level with the eye, but further back on the body. The fin lesion doesn't look as bad - actually neither of the 2 new ones were as bad as the first. It has that eraser look. Our grounding probe is on order -should be here asap. It seems like the last few days he has been more active (or maybe I'm just making him nervous staring at him all the time!)
He is still eating lots and no other fish are affected. Our lights are VHO's. The picture you linked me to were tough to call - whether that is what it was. But I searched some other sights on HLLE and some of those pics did look a bit familar. It is so hard to diagnose these things through descriptions isn't it!!heather
Tangs are notorious for getting HLLE! The lesions start around the eye and head and progress along the fish’s lateral line [front to back]…thus the name. However, it can erode the whole face area and can even erode away a good part of the body. Did you read those articles? If you did, then you know that there can be several reasons for this disease to develop. You need to try and address each of those factors. What are your nitrates and phosphates?
How many VHO’s do you have, watts? If you can, it would be nice to grow the tangs some macro algae, though this would be difficult to do in-tank. Meeting the fish’s dietary needs, and offering variety, along with optimizing water quality and the grounding probe should produce results. I strongly suggest that you get Zoecon or Zoe. These are excellent vitamin supplements that deal specifically with HLLE. Add to food, let soak, then serve up.
Try not to let your fish notice that you’re staring at them….
How many VHO’s do you have, watts? If you can, it would be nice to grow the tangs some macro algae, though this would be difficult to do in-tank. Meeting the fish’s dietary needs, and offering variety, along with optimizing water quality and the grounding probe should produce results. I strongly suggest that you get Zoecon or Zoe. These are excellent vitamin supplements that deal specifically with HLLE. Add to food, let soak, then serve up.
Try not to let your fish notice that you’re staring at them….
sask
New Member
beth;
I did get some Zoe on Monday - and have been feeding ever since. I read all the articles I could on HLLE, so I'm learning! I have 4 VHO bulbs - new in April - 2 white and 2 blue atinic. We do have a lot of algae growth in the tank, but how do I tell micro from macro? How will I tell if he is getting better??
I did get some Zoe on Monday - and have been feeding ever since. I read all the articles I could on HLLE, so I'm learning! I have 4 VHO bulbs - new in April - 2 white and 2 blue atinic. We do have a lot of algae growth in the tank, but how do I tell micro from macro? How will I tell if he is getting better??
Well microalgae will basically be like the hair algae that most people prefer not to have. Macros are plants...seaweed. Seaweed is what tangs need to eat, and graze on all day. Of course, it would be difficult to cultivate seaweed in your tank becuase the tangs will mow it down. If your HLLE problem does not improve, you may need to think of more aggressive actions, like cultivating seaweed yourself. Macroalgae has many benefits to aquaria, more then just good food source for tangs.
Here is a link to some varieties of macros:
http://www.seaweed.ie/webgallery/index.html
Can you tell me what your nitrates and phosphates are?
If your HLLE problem does not improve, you may need to think of more aggressive actions, like cultivating seaweed yourself. Macroalgae has many benefits to aquaria, more then just good food source for tangs.Here is a link to some varieties of macros:
http://www.seaweed.ie/webgallery/index.html
Can you tell me what your nitrates and phosphates are?
john f
Member
"Seaweed is what tangs need to eat"
On what do you base this statement?
Most Acanthurus graze on algae turfs.
The compostition of these turfs is mostly microalgae and diatoms. Very little macroalgae is found within algal turfs.
Certain tangs like the Naso sp. graze heavily on macroalgae, but a powder blue is a microalgae/diatom feeder.
John
On what do you base this statement?
Most Acanthurus graze on algae turfs.
The compostition of these turfs is mostly microalgae and diatoms. Very little macroalgae is found within algal turfs.
Certain tangs like the Naso sp. graze heavily on macroalgae, but a powder blue is a microalgae/diatom feeder.
John
John, you are right, but in most hobbyists’ tanks, it would be very difficult to maintain a plentiful supply of tuff algae as well as the accompanying protein-based animals that live within the tuffs [also a vital food source for Acanthuridaes]. Tangs are really omnivores, as you know, and get nearly 50% of their nutrition from protein based animals. However, I feel at least, that captive tangs in your average hobbyists’ tanks [especially if it is not a well-established reef tank] are likely never deprived of animal-based nutrition, and, are all too frequently deprived of vegetable material.
In sask’s quest for a resolution to her tang problem, ultimately, she may need to cultivate her own food sources for the tang in a refugium---and an adequate supply of tuff grass for her captive tang may be difficult. Thus, in most situations, as applied to the non-professional hobbyists, I emphasize, or, perhaps from your POV, over emphasize the macros. Easy to a grow lot of it to satisfy the needs of captive tangs.
I’d be interested in knowing what you would suggest, though, if you have additional insights how to resolve sask’s problem. Please post what your ideas are. Thanks!
In sask’s quest for a resolution to her tang problem, ultimately, she may need to cultivate her own food sources for the tang in a refugium---and an adequate supply of tuff grass for her captive tang may be difficult. Thus, in most situations, as applied to the non-professional hobbyists, I emphasize, or, perhaps from your POV, over emphasize the macros. Easy to a grow lot of it to satisfy the needs of captive tangs.
I’d be interested in knowing what you would suggest, though, if you have additional insights how to resolve sask’s problem. Please post what your ideas are. Thanks!
john f
Member
Beth,
I see where you were coming from.
I don't have too much to add except to say that the only time I have ever seen HLLE is in my Q-tank.
My Desjardin tang had a mild case develop in quarantine.
It resolved itself within 1 week once he was added to the reef tank.
I have no visable microalgae growth and continue to feed him the same diet as in quarantine. (mysis and Spectrum)
My guess is I have enough microalgae to keep him healthy, even if I can't see it.
I mainly disagreed with this statement: "If the algae in your tank that is being eaten by the tang is microalgae then this has little, if any, nutrition needed by tangs....The fact that your tang is willing to eat it shows that the fish is desparate for some nutritional vegetable material. Tangs need macroalgae."
I think also mysis shrimp are very good for any fish in the tank, even tangs (as you alluded to) and may help to correct the HLLE when used with the macroalgae.
John
I see where you were coming from.
I don't have too much to add except to say that the only time I have ever seen HLLE is in my Q-tank.
My Desjardin tang had a mild case develop in quarantine.
It resolved itself within 1 week once he was added to the reef tank.
I have no visable microalgae growth and continue to feed him the same diet as in quarantine. (mysis and Spectrum)
My guess is I have enough microalgae to keep him healthy, even if I can't see it.
I mainly disagreed with this statement: "If the algae in your tank that is being eaten by the tang is microalgae then this has little, if any, nutrition needed by tangs....The fact that your tang is willing to eat it shows that the fish is desparate for some nutritional vegetable material. Tangs need macroalgae."
I think also mysis shrimp are very good for any fish in the tank, even tangs (as you alluded to) and may help to correct the HLLE when used with the macroalgae.
John
Just my opinion, but I think tangs belong in reef tanks. They can, of course, be kept healthy in FOWLR, but I don't feel that tangs can thieve in FO [there are exceptions, I’m sure---so don’t quote me! LOL]. Reefs supply the tang with the "algae" they need as well as the meaty foodstuff they require. Yeah mysis are great for fish! But when people post again and again and again in the Disease Forum about the meaty foods they are giving their tangs, then I guess I just try to emphasize [too much so maybe] the very real fact that the greater proportion of the tang's needs are vegetarian. As I said, most hobbyist will feed their fish plenty of meaty foods, but fall short on the veggies. And, except in large tanks with few herbivores/omnivores, even a reef tank can not support all of a tang’s vegetarian needs.
they need as well as the meaty foodstuff they require. Yeah mysis are great for fish! But when people post again and again and again in the Disease Forum about the meaty foods they are giving their tangs, then I guess I just try to emphasize [too much so maybe] the very real fact that the greater proportion of the tang's needs are vegetarian. As I said, most hobbyist will feed their fish plenty of meaty foods, but fall short on the veggies. And, except in large tanks with few herbivores/omnivores, even a reef tank can not support all of a tang’s vegetarian needs.