what kind of filter do i use

cyberjesus

New Member
i have a emperor filter on my 30 gal. no protein skimmer and i want to use live sand i was told i wont need that filter so what do i use. do i really need a wet/dry? those are a little expensive is there a cheaper filter out there i can buy?
 

broomer5

Active Member
The type and amount of "filtration" required all depends on the animal load, size of tank, if you plan to do frequent water changes , and if you are running a FO or REEF tank with corals.
Biological -
Mechanical -
Chemical -
You must address all of the above 3 in order to have quality water for your system.
What do you plan to keep in this 30 gallon tank ?
There are many ways to get there - but you need to know where you are going first.
 

cyberjesus

New Member
i was starting a reef tank. i have a sleeper gobey, cinnamon clown, blue damsel, 6 line wrasse, black sea urchin, 3 hermits,1 emrald crab, horseshoe crab, anamone, 2 turbo snales, but they may be dead they havent moved frome the bottom in 3 days. and my corals are just polypsfor now. does that help?
 

broomer5

Active Member
No you don't really need a wet/dry at all.
If a reef is what you are planning on - most would agree that 30-40 Lbs of live rock, and decent aragonite DSB and a good protein skimmer will do it for filtration. You may want to slowly start adding some live rock, a piece or two at a time. If you go this route, do not remove the existing Emperor filter. Let it continue to run until after you eventually add all the live rock and live sand. Your tank is supported by it now and by removing it prior to having the live rock in place, you may lose your biological filtration.
You can add the skimmer anytime you want.
I realize there is a cost involved - so you'll have to look at your budget and decide what to do first. A good protein skimmer is hard to beat - but live rock is the key to a good functioning reef tank.
After you've added these components, you may want to consider keeping your Emperor without any bio media in it - for circulation and a place to add some chemical filtration media occassionally.
Are all of your inverts just laying on the bottom or just the Turbo's ?
Snails sometimes take awhile to adjust to new tank conditions. Better pick one up and see if dead or not. Sniff it - if it smells nasty - it's a gonner. Toss it away.
Good luck - let us know what you plan to do.
Broomer
 

cyberjesus

New Member
I CURRENTLY HAVE 10 POUNDS OF LIVE ROCK SO ILL GET MORE. ANOTHER QUESTION HOW DO YOU MAKE A GOOD DSB ALL LIVE SAND OR JUST A LITTLE AND HOW DEEP? HE SNALES ARE THE ONLY INVERTS ON THE BOTTOM AND THEY ARE DEAD I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPNED TO THE THEY ARE THE FIRST TO DIE IN THE TANK. I'VE HAD IT 3 MO. NOW. AND THANKS FOR THE HELP
 

mlm

Active Member
I have had this problem with turbo snails. The work great for about a month and then they just sit in on spot for a while and then they die. Does anyone know why?
 

psumba

Member
Broomer-
I am restarting a reef tank, I have not had one in about 6 years - keeping African Cichlids. I am interested in what has been happening in the salt world...
questions I have:
no wet/dry? How come? Many things tell you to go with this. I have also heard they are very noisy though.
My other question is over live sand...
should I or not? pros and cons?
do you have a favorite type of live rock?
Thanks,
 

broomer5

Active Member
psumba
I'm by far no expert on reef tanks, but many on this board and elsewhere have been getting away from using a true wet/dry filtration system for REEF tanks. Wet/dry's are very efficient system's. The aerobic bacteria - Nitrosomonas & Nitrobacters - that convert your ammonia to nitrite, then to nitrate do so very effectivly, due to the immediate available oxygen gas presednt. But problem arises in the filter media, be it bioballs or DLS material or whatever. This media, if not cleaned very often allows a build up of nitrates, which remains in the system, and over time cause your tank nitrates to continue to rise. Large water changes are required to remove this nitrate.
Because wet/dry's are so good at converting wastes to nitrate ( lot's of oxygen present ) there is no place to harbor the denitrifying anaerobic bacteria - Denitrobacillus and others. Under anaerobic conditions, these bacteria reduce nitrate for energy. Without these bacteria, nitrate concentrations continue to rise beyond what is desired in a reef tank. Normally, most wet/dry's do not have these low oxygen areas incorporated into their designs.
So .........
Many reefers now agree that using a combination porous live rock, and a DSB deep sand bed, along with a good protein skimmer is the HOT SET UP for reef tanks. Large amounts of live rock have huge surface area for your aerobic bacteria to live, and deep within the pore of the rock, there are low oxygen areas for the denitrifying bacteria. Very similar situation using the deep sand bed as well. Both aerobic and anaerobic conditions are present - which allow for a more complete nitrogen cycle to occur. Plus the sandbed does not allow for much detritus, excess food waste, and crap from working it's way down into the substrate, as crushed coral does.
The end result is very low to immeasurable amounts of nitrate left in the system.
The denitrfying bacteria consume the existing nitrate - and the byproduct is nitrogen gas that escapes from the system.
It's GONE
Wet/dry's can be noisy - I have one still on both my tanks. I've removed the bioballs over the last 3-4 months - slowly eliminating them from the system.
I prefer Figi live rock over some others I've bought. Others seem very dense whereas the Figi is very light, and has some beautiful corraline algae present.
I'm going to leave the live sand description to someone else. I already feel like I've typed to much LOL
Good luck
Oh yeah - just to let ya know - I've only recently changed over to the DSB approach. There are a lot of good folks on this board that I respect - and most all of them have already done this change over. Most all of them have been reporting excellent results, and a much easier, natural approach to REEF tank water quality control.
Broomer
 
I am starting a 125G reef. I have 100 lbs of sand, but I did not read the part about rinsing it untill after I put it in the tank. Will small particle size cause problems? I plan to add more sand to get 4-6 inches deep.
 
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