whats going on here.....

[thewolfman777]

my tank has been cycling for about three weeks now. i had my ammo and trite spike. yesterday i checked the wp's and here is what i got amm: 0.25, trite: 2.0, trate: 40. today i check and the wp's are: amm: 0.50, trite: .25, trate still @ 40. is this normal for the ammo. to rise again while the trites go down? the only thing i did to the tank was turn a piece of l/r right side up. i am using 2 different types of test kits and are both reading the same. i am not using any additives in the tank. so, is this normal or should i begin to worry?

 

[fshhub]

first, is the shrimp still in the tank//, if so this will give you an ammonia reading, so remove it now, it has done it's job
and as for the ammonia going back up, it could be because you moved a piece of lr, thus stirring up some junk that may have been on it, we periodically use a turkey baster to blow the junk off the lr, so it does not get too heavy, others even siphon some off when they do water changes, bedcause it will trap some garbage
HTH

 

[thewolfman777]

no i did not cycle with shrimp, i used damsels. besides the 3 damsels, i have about 10-15 lbs. of l/r, and approx. a 4-6" bed of cc. the only reason i moved the piece of l/r in the first place was because fshhub told me to, thanks fshhub, this is all your fault. no i am just kidding, i did read a posting though in which fshhub said there is a top and bottom to a piece of l/r, which i was unaware of. i had some while algae (coraline???)on the bottom of one of my pieces, and i just flipped it. it has been cloudy ever since. that is why i ask if l/r gives off any sludge or anything like that? no i have not added any additives to the system in almost two weeks. when it was first up and running i did used biozyme, and cycle but i discontinued use because i was unhappy with the results. no, i agree, the system is no way near stable at this point. but is it normal for trites to come down from a 2.0 to 0.25 overnight with no rise in trates? what do you guys think?

 

[fshhub]

it could happen the drop can happen very rapidly, and i saw the same post about lr, but my comment was something different(i do remember it though), because i figure(myself) that although ther is a top and bottom, the coraline will still spread, nad anything else will move if it needs to, so i just left mine be, and guess what, i got good growth on top of all my rocks(but if i had a piece that had a lot of coraline on one side) an dmy feather dusters found their way up, i would have placed it with that side up to start with, if for no other reasons aesthetics

 

[thewolfman777]

fshhub, so it is possible that disturbing the l/r could have caused this? what about the l/r giving off anything i.e.:sludge? also in another post about the same topic, one of the sharks recommended to clean the filter media. can u do this during the cycle? he also mentioned to clean it in sw, how do you go about doing that? mix up a basin of sw and clean it in there?

 

[fshhub]

yes you can clean it, during the cycle, however i don't think i would replace ti altogether, you need the bacteria, but not the gargage, you could mix up some saltwater(just let it warm up first), or you could alsotake a little out of your tank if you have a high enough level(just enough) and use that, all you are trying to do is get some of the garbage out, i clean my equipment with the water i take out of the tank for changes
and yes, i guess that you could call it sludge, it is only waste and sediment, but it is mostly organic(probably), so that very well could be your problem, especially if it fell almost overnite, you have experienced a minor ammonia jump too(because it was organic)

 

[kappadoku]

First of all, I agree with the point about your moving the rock could have released additional decaying matter into the water. BUT>>>
Do you really have a nitrAte reading of 40(!!??!!)
You shouldnt have a nitrate reading like that for about 6 months, unless you used both cured and uncured live rock in your setup. If it is, your damsels are probably doomed. 20 is to much, 30 can be lethal. 40 is cruel and unusual. I would have a friend or the lfs check it again. They say you shoudnt do a water change until week 6-8, but this may be an exception.

 

[fshhub]

30 lethal for a fo?
i've had mine well over a hundred(back when i had a fo with cc and that tank was never below 80), and still have those fish a year later, fish are much more tolerable of trates than inverts, but i didn't think the gap was that close
and 6 months?? how come trates don't get there for 6 months??
mine were over 60, 1 month after the cycle(in our new tank), and nowit is 5 months young, and is below 20(veryclose to 0), iadmit you really want ot get down to ZERO, but i didn't think it was that critical (as you described)
is it?
tia

 

[thewolfman777]

hey guys, thanks for the input.
baron, i do have 2 ph's in my tank pointing at each other but not at the level of the l/r. my tank does seem to have good water movement though. should i move my ph's lower? they are now in the upper corners in the back of the tank.
kappadoku, yes my nitrates are between 20 and 40, it is just hard to distinguish between the colors on the chart. if i had to chose i would say they are closer to 20 than 40. no, i only used cured l/r. i do have to agree w/ fshhub on the trate readings though. i know it is optimal to have a reading of 0 but have heard of many people having their trate level higher than 40 with great sucess with their fish. i have also never heard of not being able to do a water change until week 6 or 8 either. why is this?
....and fshhub, once again thanks for your input, appreciate it.

 

[broomer5]

All good points mentioned above.
Could very well be that moving a piece of live rock may have disturbed the tank somewhat.
The typical traditional cycling of a tank normally involves adding damsels or shrimp or whatever. We've all seen the nitrogen cycle diagrams many times before ... right, so we don't need to go there, but I'm not so sure how a tank will cycle when you add bacteria in a bottle products such as Biozyme, Cycle or Stress Zyme.
Will the tank experience the same rise and fall of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate with the addition of supplmental bacteria as it would have without the addition of these bacteria?
In the traditional way - I would imagine you need to "wait" for each type of bacteria population to develope .... giving rise to a new population of different bacteria, to see your rise and fall of both ammonia and nitrite. Eventually both dropping off - and a final rise in nitrate.
But if you add bacteria in a bottle - you are introducing a lot of these benifical bacteria all at once - possibly eliminating some of the wait period - and likewise cycling in a non-traditional manner.
I don't really know - but thought it may be worth discussing some more

 

[thewolfman777]

broomer,
i hear what you're saying with the debate on additives. have you had any success with using these products? i did start out using all three brand names you mentioned above. I honestly wasnt happy with the results. I felt it actually delayed the process of the cycle. i discontinued use and added l/r and that was when I started to see something going on. i talked to a lot of people about using these products and they werent happy either. reading the inserts in the packages, they seemed to make these products sound like a god send but the end result for me was the opposite. if you have or have heard of anybody having success with these products let me know, i am curious. maybe they work better in a more cycled tank than a brand new one. thanks for your input.

 

[broomer5]

I dunno,
Like I've mentioned before - seems a little silly to buy bacteria. Sort of like paying for air.
You're going to get the bacteria eventually, and I think the tank cycle would be much easier to monitor without these additives. Sort of allow the tank to biologically mature on it's own timeframe - the amount of time neccearry being determined by the natural development and reproduction of bacteria(s) in response to the rising ammonia and nitrites.
I talked to a lfs guy about this not too long ago, he sort of winked at me with that " well you can buy it if you want to look " and said that the only time he used it was when he was setting up a temporary tank at a Home Show, and needed to get it set up fast.
That's about it -

 

[thewolfman777]

broomer, i agree totally on the additive issue, i like the way you put it, "it's like paying for air".
baron, thanks for the helpful tips. thank you, i do like my tank, just wished it was about 150 gallons bigger . i currently have a fluval cannister 304 besides the 2 ph's. i actually today, disconnected my ugf, and lowered my ph's to about mid tank level and faced them towards each other. so what you are saying is have the 2 ph's in the same corner of the tank? that is quite an interesting concept. i never even thought of have both ph's in the same corner, cool. i do kick myself, because i was going to buy a 3rd today and didn't. i spent all my $$$ on l/r . at least it's not a bad investment. now i have to go out later today and buy another ph, thanks a lot, lol, j/k. i do like your idea and i am going to try it, thank you.
by the way, the whole point of this message was that i have cloudy water that didn't want to go away, no actually it wasn't, that was another post. anyways, well it finally went away and i have to thank mr. salty, (in another post) who reccomended to go but some micro screen to trap the smaller particles, it was clear in a few hours, kudos to mr. salty!!!