Which large seahorse babies hitch from birth?

[smartorl]

I am having a hard time finding out information, maybe because I am researching backwards. Which type of large seahorses hitch from birth like dwarves do?
I was thinking of getting a pair of normal horses but the thought of losing all or at least most of the babies is heartbreaking. It was mentioned to me today that some large ones hitch like the little ones so I am trying to find out which.
I have been pouring over diaries of raising fry of the non-hitching horses and it seems that under the best of circumstances, most if not all are lost. The whole idea of the bubblers and keeping them and their food in suspension makes my head hurt. At my lfs, they put the babies in a bubbler and it is rather distressing watching them zoom around like they are on a ferris wheel. It is so peaceful watching the dwarves learn to hunt and swim.
Any idea?

 

[monalisa]

Hey Smart,
I just sent you a PM...hope this helps. Let us know what you find out with this new added information...I'm interested!!
Lisa

 

[rykna]

I hear what you're saying, my babies did the same thing in my tank!! On purpose too! They would swim straight into the current as hard as they could and then get swept away by the return flow.
My thinking is, in nature it's survival of the fittest. All you have to do is swim faster than you buddy when you being hunted!!! So gotta tone those little muscles some how. All though I do not, and would not use a bubbler to do so.

 

[smartorl]

With Reddi's the babies are born unable to hitch for several weeks. The babies end up on the surface, gulp air and then die. The bubblers are supposed to keep them suspended, along with their food, so that they don't go to the surface after the food. It looks miserable to me. Even with the bubblers the mortality rate is really high, but all the captive seahorses come from somewhere right?
My little teenagers also love to surf, when they are not looking for things to get into, lol.

 

[smartorl]

Ok, babies that hitch from birth, like the dwarves are benthic. Large sized seahorses that are benthic are Barbouri, and some strains of Erectus depending on origin.
That leaves the Kudas, the Reidi, and most of the other large seahorses as pelagic, with babies unable to hitch at birth. These babies can take up to 2 months to be able to hitch properly and safely.

 

[monalisa]

Originally Posted by smartorl
Ok, babies that hitch from birth, like the dwarves are benthic. Large sized seahorses that are benthic are Barbouri, and some strains of Erectus depending on origin.
That leaves the Kudas, the Reidi, and most of the other large seahorses as pelagic, with babies unable to hitch at birth. These babies can take up to 2 months to be able to hitch properly and safely.
Yes, yes...benthic and pelagic are the terms I was thinking you might be looking for. So, with the pelagic horses at birth...is the trick to keep them suspended for 2 months until they can hitch properly? Or is the idea to keep them in really quiet water until such time?
Lisa

 

[smartorl]

Yes, keeping them in suspension along with their food without having too much movement where they can't eat. I think that is where my lfs is messing up, their babies look like they are on a tilt-o-whirl. The mortality rate seems to be so high! It is amazing reading what I am reading that captive bred seahorses are available at all. Someone must have a secret!
Funny note, Barbouri which hitch, which would make them easier to breed, are more expensive than the non-hitching varieties. That seems backwards. It would seem that those able to hitch, therefore rear easier would be more readily available.

 

[monalisa]

Originally Posted by smartorl
Yes, keeping them in suspension along with their food without having too much movement where they can't eat. I think that is where my lfs is messing up, their babies look like they are on a tilt-o-whirl. The mortality rate seems to be so high! It is amazing reading what I am reading that captive bred seahorses are available at all. Someone must have a secret!
Funny note, Barbouri which hitch, which would make them easier to breed, are more expensive than the non-hitching varieties. That seems backwards. It would seem that those able to hitch, therefore rear easier would be more readily available.
Hmmm, yeah that would make sense...but who's making the rules LOL.
I found this earlier this evening and thought of your thread. It's been on my clipboard for a little while, so I'm hoping that it's something that you (and I) can use in this research. this particular information is specifically for kuda horses.
Reproduction:
In the wild this species reproduces during the wet season (monsoons). It is sexually mature at 7-8 months, gestation period is 14 days, brood size is 80 to 1500 juveniles. However in aquariums with appropriate husbandry, they can reproduce year around when the aquarium water is maintained between 76 and 80°F. The gestation period is exactly 14 days, eggs have a drop-like shape with a maximum diameter of approximately 1.8 mm, brood size in captive animals has been recorded as high as 2800 juveniles. Brood size depends on the size of the father. Juveniles are approximately 9 mm at release. Juveniles present a pelagic behavior for 22 days after birth. During this time juveniles drift free in the currents eating zooplankton from the water column without holding fast to any structures .
I guess what caught my eye in this write up is that kuda fry demonstrate a pelagic behavior for only 22 days (long enough, I know) instead of 2 months...that helps, I guess. I wonder also, if feeding the new fry phytoplankton would be sufficient, or oyster eggs...course those are frozen, IDK.
Now, on to environment and solutions in that area.
I'll be back (haha, like Arnold).
Lisa

 

[monalisa]

I posted a picture of my male black kuda on my thread...I'm needing to get this together soon as it turns out. Yeah...take a look, he's definitely preggers.

Lisa

 

[smartorl]

Yeppers, I just saw the photo, congrats. I think I have found something that may help with the babies. I was looking at better filtration for my new dwarf tank. I have new babies every few days and need good filtration and water circulation without alot of radical movement. My little nursery tank came with a mini Cascade internal filter with a spray bar. I like the way it works for this application. I picked up a larger one. With a narrow water column (a modified tank) and the spray bar set on the surface, not making waves but set right at the water level, it would push down the food and the babies. Their natural tendancies would have them head back for the surface but the flow would push them back down. Also, by setting a light shooting horizonally into the tank, either halfway up or close to the bottom, that would hypothetically also bring the babies and the food down as well. Hypothetically. It is taking bits and pieces from various sources and lumping it all together. I am trying to prepare to take in the lfs's next batch of kudas and there just has to be a better way. I don't handle failure well, lol.

 

[monalisa]

Originally Posted by smartorl
Yeppers, I just saw the photo, congrats. I think I have found something that may help with the babies. I was looking at better filtration for my new dwarf tank. I have new babies every few days and need good filtration and water circulation without alot of radical movement. My little nursery tank came with a mini Cascade internal filter with a spray bar. I like the way it works for this application. I picked up a larger one. With a narrow water column (a modified tank) and the spray bar set on the surface, not making waves but set right at the water level, it would push down the food and the babies. Their natural tendancies would have them head back for the surface but the flow would push them back down. Also, by setting a light shooting horizonally into the tank, either halfway up or close to the bottom, that would hypothetically also bring the babies and the food down as well. Hypothetically. It is taking bits and pieces from various sources and lumping it all together. I am trying to prepare to take in the lfs's next batch of kudas and there just has to be a better way. I don't handle failure well, lol.
For the record, I don't handle failure well either..but I'm preparing. So if I do a search for Cascade internal filter, will I get some viable results? I'm also thinking of packing the lower 1/4 of the tank with macro algea. Who knows? Sounds like it might work. I have a 10gal tank ready and waiting for kuda babies.
Lisa

 

[smartorl]

The supposed danger is that they are drawn to the surface where they gulp and and die. The counter to that are the bubblers which are pretty unnatural and make feeding difficult, too fast, they die, too slow they die. I think with the cascade set with the wand on the surface pushing everything down and by siliconing a peice of acrylic into a tank to make a narrower water margin, add in your microalgae and I just think it would work! I'm setting up a bare bottom dwarf tank tomorrow, I will get photos of the filter.

 

[monalisa]

Originally Posted by smartorl
The supposed danger is that they are drawn to the surface where they gulp and and die. The counter to that are the bubblers which are pretty unnatural and make feeding difficult, too fast, they die, too slow they die. I think with the cascade set with the wand on the surface pushing everything down and by siliconing a peice of acrylic into a tank to make a narrower water margin, add in your microalgae and I just think it would work! I'm setting up a bare bottom dwarf tank tomorrow, I will get photos of the filter.
Thanks, I'll look for the photos of the filter.
Lisa