While the nation was watching football.........

mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I think this part would be defeated in court pretty easily. Criminalizing not buying a service? If the Republicans can keep from screwing up, they'll sweep the elections next year. I can't believe the other Democrats went along with this. I can't wait to see where my local lefty (Gabrielle Giffords) stands on this. She was one of the "conservative Democrats" elected last year. Criminalizing folks for not having insurance. I warned folks in the 80's and 90's that when they were requiring insurance for cars that it would lead to this. If you are worried about someone hitting your heap, get uninsured motorist-don't let the state mandate it. If someone can't afford to pay a hospital bill, they get sued. No one is forcing the government to pay anything-that is a bald face lie. But everyone thought that mandatory car insurance was gonna save them money too-it hasn't.
 
tluamen

tluamen

New Member
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."
Abraham Lincoln
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
basicly what they are saying is if you dont have health insurance you dont pay your bills, everyone else does..... I'm sorry when I go to the hospital they mail me a bill, and I pay it.... I dont see how ME not having health insurance since I pay all my own bills cost ANYONE else money. its not like my bills get split up and mailed to everyone else in the country.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I like the idea of forcing people to have insurance although I don't think it is constitutional.
For every person that pays their own expenses out of pocket I'd bet there are 10,000 who scam the system. Got to fix that some how. The supreme court has rules that you must treat people who show up at the ER so we gotta do something.
I really think there is a simple solution. change the tax code to allow a dollar for dollar tax credit for the purchase of health insurance. That should solve the constitutionality issue and be strong encouragement for people to buy insurance. That, like the Democrats bill, does absolutely nothing to lower costs in the short term.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
I wonder what kind of dollar figure we are talking if we add up all of the medicare, medicaid, private insurance FRAUD. Oh and how much the illegals are adding to the fraud also. I am thinking if this stuff alone is eliminated from the healthcare issue, we might stand a chance of avoid this nightmare.
If we just develop a system to elimate the fraud, I bet it would still be tons cheaper than this mess.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
They can't even control the fraud in Medicare yet claim they can cut the fat and save enough money to help pay for Obamacare

The Democrats would rather cut seniors medicare than do anything about illegals. Is this a great country or what?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by lovethesea
http:///forum/post/3176575
I wonder what kind of dollar figure we are talking if we add up all of the medicare, medicaid, private insurance FRAUD. Oh and how much the illegals are adding to the fraud also. I am thinking if this stuff alone is eliminated from the healthcare issue, we might stand a chance of avoid this nightmare.
If we just develop a system to elimate the fraud, I bet it would still be tons cheaper than this mess.
There is a system to eliminate fraud. It is called, make everyone pay for themselves...
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
What is really messed up about this whole thing is the budgeting. They start taxing us this year. But they don't actually roll out any benifits for 3 years... So they have 3 years of revenue before they actually have to pay out. hence the under 1 trillion dollar price tag. Take out those 3 years it is REDICULOUS!
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3176782
What is really messed up about this whole thing is the budgeting. They start taxing us this year. But they don't actually roll out any benifits for 3 years... So they have 3 years of revenue before they actually have to pay out. hence the under 1 trillion dollar price tag. Take out those 3 years it is REDICULOUS!
Pay no attention to the bill behind the cutain!!!!!
 
stevedave08

stevedave08

Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3176782
What is really messed up about this whole thing is the budgeting. They start taxing us this year. But they don't actually roll out any benifits for 3 years... So they have 3 years of revenue before they actually have to pay out. hence the under 1 trillion dollar price tag. Take out those 3 years it is REDICULOUS!
If it's going to roll out as a public option where people who choose it pay premiums, then the revenue they are building with the tax is to cover costs for claims immediately after they start coverage. If they didn't have that revenue, how would they cover the initial claims? The money collected from premiums initially would not cover all claims, so they need to have a good amount of money set apart when benefits start. You get what I'm trying to say? Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3176939
If it's going to roll out as a public option where people who choose it pay premiums, then the revenue they are building with the tax is to cover costs for claims immediately after they start coverage. If they didn't have that revenue, how would they cover the initial claims? The money collected from premiums initially would not cover all claims, so they need to have a good amount of money set apart when benefits start. You get what I'm trying to say? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sure, just don't then turn around, and BLAST and praise the fake cost, instead of being honest and sayin the true ten year cost. And believe you'd have to believe that no one is going to use that money as their own slush fund... It would be like believing the wino, when he says he just needs 5 bucks for a bus ticket...
Third, would you buy insurance, that had a 3 year waiting period before you could apply for a claim...
 
mastertech

mastertech

Member
what happens when an individual gets in debt that she cant repay...........
bankrupt.
what happens when a government gets in debt that she cant repay.........
bankrupt.
if the national debt is $12,026,426,425,269.63 as of now and there are 307,340,??? people in the US. each citizen is in debt $39,000.00 on top of everyones personal average debt of over $50,000-$100,000 where are we headed?
where is the culture? where is responsibility? where is the moral? what now?
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by mastertech
http:///forum/post/3176985
what happens when an individual gets in debt that she cant repay...........
bankrupt.
what happens when a government gets in debt that she cant repay.........
bankrupt.
if the national debt is $12,026,426,425,269.63 as of now and there are 307,340,??? people in the US. each citizen is in debt $39,000.00 on top of everyones personal average debt of over $50,000-$100,000 where are we headed?
where is the culture? where is responsibility? where is the moral? what now?
Where in the Constitution does it say the Federal Government can mandate health care?
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I believe that liberals would use the "to provide for the common welfare" part of the Constitution. I know it was referring to the safety of the people, but it was used to justify the equally unconstitutional social security system and the great society and medicaid, etc.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member

Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3177231
I believe that liberals would use the "to provide for the common welfare" part of the Constitution. I know it was referring to the safety of the people, but it was used to justify the equally unconstitutional social security system and the great society and medicaid, etc.
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Promote not provide, and im not so sure that throwing US citizens into jail and fining for refusing to purchase health insurance falls under general welfare of the people.
 
uneverno

uneverno

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/3177246
Liberals suck.

That's kind of a broad statement.
It was Liberals who demanded public education. It was Liberals who put an end to child labor. It was Liberals that fought for the rights of women and people of color to vote. It was Liberals that established the 40hr work week. It was Liberals that established unions.
The Constitution does not address any of those things, but the Fed still legislates with regard to all of them.
Shall we return to the days of yore? How would you be fairing at the company store with the company currency, valid nowhere else, ala George Pullman's company? You ok w/ your kids working the farm or the industry 12-14hrs a day from age 8 on? How 'bout NO health insurance? You ok with companies being able to dump their toxic waste on the land or in the water used to grow your food? You ok with companies being able to put you at risk in your workplace? You ok with them being able to fire you for saying you're not? Etc, ad nauseum.
I don't understand the attitude that believes Laissez Faire Capitalism is the way to go. We had that once. How can it possibly be better to return to it?
 
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