Who for president

[1journeyman]

In that same NPR interview, btw, He says he would withdraw our fleets from the Persian Gulf, withdraw from NATO and the UN, and he doesn't travel overseas because he considers himself a noninterventionist (read isolationist).
He's also apparently a fairly big "Illuminati" believer.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Rudedog, great point. After all, the vast number of abortions are 10 years olds who have been walking home from school and have gotten attacked by drug addicts...
Tell ya what; You tell me when life begins and I'll say abortion gets the green light up to that point. Until then, however, the Government is obligated to protect the life of the unborn.

May not be the norm, but it's happened. And if you feel an abortion of this type is acceptable, but no others are, then your just a hypocrite. You can't have it both ways. Unwanted --- and ---- are a ghastly invasion to a woman's privacy. Unfortunately it happens way too often. But the Pro-Lifers think a woman who has this unspeakable act happen to them should suffer through 9 months of hell to have a child they don't want, especially one that will be a constant reminder of what happened to them.
But that's OK, someone will adopt the unwanted child. Maybe. So tell you what. You want to put an end to abortions? Then create a National Registry for all Pro-Lifers to sign. When a woman or child has an unwanted pregnancy, no matter what the circumstances are, you Pro Lifers agree to take charge of that unwanted baby, and you raise it with YOUR money, with no assistance from any government agency. That includes the crack babies that have major brain deformities and will require constant medical attention. Or the baby with Downs Syndrome that the 14 year old has when she got knocked up by her boyfriend that swore she couldn't get pregnant the first time she had ---. They're all yours for the taking.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
May not be the norm, but it's happened. And if you feel an abortion of this type is acceptable, but no others are, then your just a hypocrite. ...
... When a woman or child has an unwanted pregnancy, no matter what the circumstances are, you Pro Lifers agree to take charge of that unwanted baby, and you raise it with YOUR money, with no assistance from any government agency. That includes the crack babies that have major brain deformities and will require constant medical attention. Or the baby with Downs Syndrome that the 14 year old has when she got knocked up by her boyfriend that swore she couldn't get pregnant the first time she had ---. They're all yours for the taking.
All life is precious to me, but if we can save a million babies a year at the price of a few sacrificed to get a law passed I'll take that. Better that a few lost for the salvation of the million or so...
As for your second statement, is your premise that mentally challenged children should be aborted?

 

[mfp1016]

Funny, I think its pretty hypocritical for you pro-choicers to say "a woman has a right to HER body, wah wah wah" but you all have no problem outlawing prostitution. I thought women had rights to their body??

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by mfp1016
Funny, I think its pretty hypocritical for you pro-choicers to say "a woman has a right to HER body, wah wah wah" but you all have no problem outlawing prostitution. I thought women had rights to their body??

I have no problem with prostitution. If a woman wants to use her body that way to make a buck, that's her decision. The bible thumpers were the ones who threw the morality clause into the laws to make it illegal.

 

[fishycpa]

Why is it bad for people to have personal, moral values? Why can't we be against something like abortion and prostitution? They both have confirmed negative effects.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
All life is precious to me, but if we can save a million babies a year at the price of a few sacrificed to get a law passed I'll take that. Better that a few lost for the salvation of the million or so...
As for your second statement, is your premise that mentally challenged children should be aborted?

That's the most hypocritical statement I've ever heard. It's OK that 'certain' babies get aborted, but not all? Like I said, you can't have it both ways. Life must not be too precious to you if you feel even one aborted baby is OK. And you didn't answer the question as to what to do with these million babies you want saved? Are you going to raise them? Of course not. Let the welfare system take care of them. Raise my taxes for that unwanted fetus. That's the problem with Pro Lifers. They want the salvation, but want no part of the solution. "Don't you dare abort that baby. You carry it to full term, and then you take care of it. What? You can't afford to have a baby? Then you should'nt have gotten pregnant. Excuse me? You want ME to help with raising that unwanted child? It's not MY baby. Go give it up for adoption. Oh, the baby has a mental defect and no adoption agency even wants to touch it. Wow, that sucks to be you. Guess you'll have to hold the burden of raising that one with all the thousands of medical expenses that come along with it."
Should mentally challenged children be aborted? That again should be the choice of the woman. Sorry to say, but there a lot of people in this world who are just not strong enough to handle the stress and burden it takes to take care of a mentally retarded child. If a woman finds out that her child has a severly underdeveloped brain in the first trimester, and that child will NEVER have a normal life, only one of lying motionless in a bed requiring constant attention, why shouldn't she have the option? Again, who will be responsible for this child if this woman isn't mentally or emotionally stable to care for it? Oh, but it's a life. Is it really? Just because a heart beats and the body performs it's normal functions, it's considered life?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
That's the most hypocritical statement I've ever heard. It's OK that 'certain' babies get aborted, but not all? Like I said, you can't have it both ways. Life must not be too precious to you if you feel even one aborted baby is OK. ...
You definitely need to reread what I said... I said I would "take" a law that saved millions while allowing a few to be sacrificed. It's not ok with me by any means, but saving a million a year would be a start.
Your thinking scares me. So mentally disabled children should be aborted.... What about crippled children? What about short children, tall children? What if the fetus is a boy and you wanted a girl? Why stop at fetuses? a 2 year old can't take of themselves, so why not allow parents to throw them away if the burden of being a parent becomes too much? And heck, why stop at infants? Why not allow "mercy" killing of anyone who isn't "normal". The terminally sick, the old, the weak, the unemployed all are a drain on society. Why should my tax dollars go to support them? We can model our society after Germany in WWII and make ourselves a wonderful Master Race....

 

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by phunckie
I agree wholeheartedly. That's one of the many things I like about Ron Paul.
Strong Christian
Married to the same woman for 55 years (that in itself is a miracle these days).
OBGYN for 40 years
Has delivered over 4,000 babies and never aborted one.
Thank you Jesus for Ron not aborting those babies and being dedicated to his wife!!!!!!

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
You definitely need to reread what I said... I said I would "take" a law that saved millions while allowing a few to be sacrificed. It's not ok with me by any means, but saving a million a year would be a start.
Your thinking scares me. So mentally disabled children should be aborted.... What about crippled children? What about short children, tall children? What if the fetus is a boy and you wanted a girl? Why stop at fetuses? a 2 year old can't take of themselves, so why not allow parents to throw them away if the burden of being a parent becomes too much? And heck, why stop at infants? Why not allow "mercy" killing of anyone who isn't "normal". The terminally sick, the old, the weak, the unemployed all are a drain on society. Why should my tax dollars go to support them? We can model our society after Germany in WWII and make ourselves a wonderful Master Race....

Again you take it to the extreme. We're talking abortions of first trimester babies. That's what the current abortion laws allow. Sorry to burst your bubble, but some of the actions you described actually happen in today's society. There was a couple here in San Antonio recently that killed their newborn infant, and two other children, and stuffed their remains under the house simply because they didn't want to deal with them anymore.
The others you described - The terminally sick, the old, the weak, the unemployed, that's called our wonderful Welfare System. Talk about something that's broken. Why should my tax dollars support these people? Oh that's right, you're the one that believes the US should be the saviors of the world. Hand out money to whoever needs it. That's what we do.
You still haven't answered my question as to what we do with these unborn children these mother's don't want for whatever reason. We just dump them into the Welfare system as well, and let all the taxpayers pay for them until they're 18? Sorry, but I have my own children to raise. Like I said, let the Pro Lifers pony the money up to raise these unwanted children, and keep your hands out of my pockets.

 

[fishycpa]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
. Like I said, let the Pro Lifers pony the money up to raise these unwanted children, and keep your hands out of my pockets.
You sound socially liberal and fiscally conservative...who are you voting for again?

 

[agent-x]

As for abortion, I personally think If you walk into a large city and ask 20 people their views you're probably going to get a varied opinion. I am for abortion if the person feels it's what they need to do. As for the religion aspect of it. If the person who is going to abort the baby is willing to pay the consiquences of their actions (If there are any) then let them do it. Who are we to tell them what's best for them. And personally I could care less. One more unwanted baby in this country of welfare babies is fine with me. Nothing enragres me more than to see some family that barely can afford to provide for one child walking around with 10. And who gets to foot the bill, the tax payers. I can understand that 50 years ago a farmer might have needed 10 children to work on the family farm, but unless you own a farm or are planning on starting a football team I don't see the point.
I've been saying for years that you should have to make a certain amount of money per year for every child you have (I know that there is no way to enforce this, but still). Most of the time these families aren't so big because of religious reason either, it's just that the father is to lazy or ignorant to go get a vasectomy. I know the woman shares this responsibility, but the simple fact that it's an outpatient procedure for men should make the difference. I'm sick of people arguing the religion side of Abortion. Honestly how often do you think that the person going to get the Abortion is Religious? I'd say maybe 5% of the time, maybe. So if they aren't religious or don't take the religious view on it then who cares.
We should be an equal oportunity country for everything not just somethings. Just because you believe a certain way does not mean I have to. I think the option should be there. Now, As for a time for the abortion. I don't know. That's going to be tricky, but I'm thinking if your going to have it done do it early or otherwise place the child in a Orphanage (I have no clue as to a timetable). My wife and I (When we are ready) are personally leaning towards adoption, just because we think there are plenty of needy children out there. I don't understand why some are so anti adoption. I'm the last of my bloodline and I could care less about extending it by having my own child.
Sorry for the long rant I'm just sick of people trying to tell me or others how we should live our lives. I feel the same way about those parents that try to ban certain books from being read in school. If you don't want your child to read it then request another book. Or better yet homeschool your child (because that'll make em' normal). I know your trying to protect your children, but come on.
As for the US policing the world. I don't think we do that in a sense that we only interefere when it involves the economy somehow. If we're there to help then why aren't we in Darfur? Because there is no money in it.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
Again you take it to the extreme. We're talking abortions of first trimester babies. That's what the current abortion laws allow. Sorry to burst your bubble, but some of the actions you described actually happen in today's society. There was a couple here in San Antonio recently that killed their newborn infant, and two other children, and stuffed their remains under the house simply because they didn't want to deal with them anymore.....
Were we talking abour first trimester? I didn't see that mentioned before just now.... So in your estimation life begins when a fetus is exactly 3 months old. Do you have any evidence of that?
You didn't burst my bubble in any way. I'm well aware the evil that takes place in the world. The difference between our viewpoints is that you seem to want to justify it.
Is the welfare system broken? Absolutely. Does it need to be reformed? Sure. Do Americans have the right to turn their backs on the needy and helpless in our society? Heck no.
You have kids; great. Take a deep breath and imagine for a minute what kind of world you are proposing they grow up in....

 

[reefraff]

Abortion is homicide. So is the death penalty, acts of war or any other instance where human life is deliberatly taken.
I would say in the first trimester anything should go with abortion. Maybe even the second. But third trimester? Only an idiot would argue that isn't a viable human life. There should definatly be restrictions on those abortions. Severe handicap of the child or physical health of the mother.

 

[reefkprz]

Cthulhu for president 2008:
why choose the lesser evil!
I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Were we talking abour first trimester? I didn't see that mentioned before just now.... So in your estimation life begins when a fetus is exactly 3 months old. Do you have any evidence of that?
You didn't burst my bubble in any way. I'm well aware the evil that takes place in the world. The difference between our viewpoints is that you seem to want to justify it.
Is the welfare system broken? Absolutely. Does it need to be reformed? Sure. Do Americans have the right to turn their backs on the needy and helpless in our society? Heck no.
You have kids; great. Take a deep breath and imagine for a minute what kind of world you are proposing they grow up in....

Typical Pro Life response. Seems you had a response for all my comments but one. AGAIN. WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE TO DO WITH THE UNWANTED CHILDREN? If you feel it's inhumane to abort a fetus that is clinically shown to be severly retarded and deformed, what do you propose to do with this child if it goes full term and is born? Are you telling me there is actually someone out there willing to adopt this child, knowing it will never have a normal productive life, and will cost thousands of dollars to care for? Are you willing to take on this responsibility?
Neither you, me, or anyone else in this world has the right to tell and dictate to another human being what they can or cannot do with their body. A hugh majority of abortions that occur are done for a specific reason. It can be because of ----, it can be because the pregnancy is jeopardizing the health of the mother, it can be because of a major health problem with the fetus, or sadly, it can be due to financial reasons. But give me the percentage of abortions that occur where the woman just wakes up one day and says. "Ya know. I don't think I want to have this child now. Even though I agreed to get pregnant, I just don't want to deal with this. I think I'll just drive down to Planned Parenthood and get an abortion." Don't think those recorded abortions show up very often.
And don't give me the line, "But an unborn fetus doesn't get to choose whether to live or die." Well, guess what. That's called LIFE. In most abortion cases, it's because the woman didn't get the choice whether to get pregnant or not. So now I suppose you want to propose that any woman that's capable or rearing a child, is forced to take birth control to avoid getting pregnant until they want to. Even better, how about anytime a baby girl is born in this world, the doctor surgically installs an IUD that can't be removed until the baby grows up to be a woman who can make an intelligent decision as to whether she wants to get pregnant or not? That should make the Pro Lifers estatic. No more abortions!!!

 

[m34u2nv]

i am 17 teen right now, but by election time comes around i will beable to vote. i have not really been following up on the canidates, but i can sure tell you i will not be voteing for hillary, she is a **** and i will not live in this country if she is in office. Australia anyone?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by M34U2NV
i am 17 teen right now, but by election time comes around i will beable to vote. i have not really been following up on the canidates, but i can sure tell you i will not be voteing for hillary, she is a **** and i will not live in this country if she is in office. Australia anyone?
lol, I am sure she will be depressed by your lack of support...
Like you, I will not vote for her but my reasons are more substantial and I don’t really see how using degrading and sexist tones make a point?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
...And don't give me the line, "But an unborn fetus doesn't get to choose whether to live or die." Well, guess what. That's called LIFE. ...
And therefore the choosing to end said life is what exactly?
Originally Posted by rudedoge40
A hugh majority of abortions that occur are done for a specific reason. It can be because of ----, it can be because the pregnancy is jeopardizing the health of the mother, it can be because of a major health problem with the fetus...
Actually, "1% of all abortions occur because of ---- or

[hr]
; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child...."
In every study, the main reasons for getting an abortion relate to convenience. Whether that is money, career, social standing, etc.
A person has a right to do whatever they want with their body, up until the point where it infringes on the rights of another human being. I can do whatever I want with my fist, until the point in which I punch someone. We make laws all the times that regulate what we do with our bodies.
Abortion comes down to convenience. That, in my opinion, is never a justified reason to end another's life.

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
Typical Pro Life response. Seems you had a response for all my comments but one. AGAIN. WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE TO DO WITH THE UNWANTED CHILDREN? If you feel it's inhumane to abort a fetus that is clinically shown to be severly retarded and deformed, what do you propose to do with this child if it goes full term and is born? Are you telling me there is actually someone out there willing to adopt this child, knowing it will never have a normal productive life, and will cost thousands of dollars to care for? Are you willing to take on this responsibility?
Neither you, me, or anyone else in this world has the right to tell and dictate to another human being what they can or cannot do with their body. A hugh majority of abortions that occur are done for a specific reason. It can be because of ----, it can be because the pregnancy is jeopardizing the health of the mother, it can be because of a major health problem with the fetus, or sadly, it can be due to financial reasons. But give me the percentage of abortions that occur where the woman just wakes up one day and says. "Ya know. I don't think I want to have this child now. Even though I agreed to get pregnant, I just don't want to deal with this. I think I'll just drive down to Planned Parenthood and get an abortion." Don't think those recorded abortions show up very often.
And don't give me the line, "But an unborn fetus doesn't get to choose whether to live or die." Well, guess what. That's called LIFE. In most abortion cases, it's because the woman didn't get the choice whether to get pregnant or not. So now I suppose you want to propose that any woman that's capable or rearing a child, is forced to take birth control to avoid getting pregnant until they want to. Even better, how about anytime a baby girl is born in this world, the doctor surgically installs an IUD that can't be removed until the baby grows up to be a woman who can make an intelligent decision as to whether she wants to get pregnant or not? That should make the Pro Lifers estatic. No more abortions!!!
Try and justify killing babies all you want. Whether it's legal or not the fact remains...in the end it will always be murder.