why the local lfs doesn't carry live rock or sand

[loopy]

quote "it is ripped from the ocean like the hump of a camels back and soon there will be none left. It will be a crime to sell and own within a few years." unquote.
Not what I said....lfs managar. (I wanted live rock that was riiiiiiiiiipedddd from the sea like a hump of a camels back, so kill me.) The ocean doesn't have a ton of rock????? Do they know how the ocean works?????? Don't they know that there is constantly new rock in the ocean for a huge variety of reasons? HMMMMMMMMMMM.

 

[bigdogzack]

ah tell tell your LFS to cry you a river

...they just don't want to deal with LR and are trying to be self-righteous about it...any LR that comes out of the caribean is aquacultured (i.e. thousands and thousands of pounds of "fossil rock" is quaried out of the Florida mainland and deposeted in the Gulf to be colonized by ocian life and then harvested and sold)...remeber Florida was one big reef not to terrible long ago (when the oceons were higher in elevaton)...point is, if your LFS is really so worried about the oceons, they would ONLY sell aquacultered LR, fish, and or inverts....

 

[joker_ca]

Yes the only LR that is available from florida is the aquacultured rock and that industry is heavly regulated by the feds, and LR that comes from fiji is collected from tidal surge areas and after storms, also if it isn't harvested by the hobby the countries out there use LR as a base rock to build roads so there really is not shortage from what i have read and from talking to LFS and other people in the hobby

 

[reefraff]

The Co-owner of the LFS here told me there was a law passed requiring all internet vendors to start pricing their items the same as local merchants. I was so proud of myself for not laughing in his face. He also has the only saltwater in exhistance that DECREASES in salanity due to evaporation. Your guy at least fed you a story that "could" be true.
A little off topic and I am sure I will butcher the spelling of the name but I see your in Wisconsin. A large online vendor is opening up a coral aquacultering facility in Rhinelander this fall.

 

[fishnerd]

I have one for the "anti rock people"
I used to be a commercial marinelife collector in The Keys. Alot of tree huggers looked at us as being the devil... if they only knew.
The single worst environmental disaster I have ever seen is what shrimp boats trawling do to a patch reef. I have collected in spots and did great. I would come back the next day and it would look like a hurricane had hit the spot. Shrimpers can LEGALLY destroy the ocean's bottom, but an experienced aquarist is a criminal if he/she takes a piece of rock for their reef tank. Thats politics for you.
If you want to help save the ocean don't eat shrimp.

 

[loopy]

We could go on and on about this.......on a huge variety of subjects...not just live rock. It is just a wierd world with a lot of people who have tunnel vision. Crack open that tunnel and the world is open to you, life is experienced in ways some never thought possible, life is LIVED. Keep the tunnel and die a bored human being who didn't enjoy life and take what it had to offer. I think that we are among the non tunnel people and for that I rejoice.

 

[mary]

If you really believe its ok to disrupt the coral reefs around the world, check out Google and type in Coral reefs. They are all threatened by natural accurances and by man. Very much so. If you really want to know. There are many sources to check out and they are not fanatics. The facts are there and our reefs are very much threatened by natural occurances and by environmental conditions caused by man. They are being destroyed also by the sheer number of people who without the proper education in enjoying the reefs, abuse them.

 

[loopy]

So then Mary, what about the rain forests?
Forests in general.
Rivers.
Lakes.
Wetlands.
Prairies.
Moutains.
Endangered species who kill cattle and send the farmer to being bankrupt but they can't do anything about it because the animals killing their cattle are 'endangered'.....so the farmer suffers as does his children.
People who vacation in 'tropical paradises' where the residents live on pennies a day and go hungry while the vacationer bakes in the sun.
Homeless people in the US
Jobless people in the US because all the factories are going overseas.
etc etc etc.
AND...isn't keeping fish wrong then? Shouldn't we put them back in the ocean where they belong?

 

[scubadoo]

I do not beleive aquarist are ruining reefs. Some sites that sell lr claim it is collected abroad after washing to shore. I have no idea if Affa, Sicca and Rakishi are standing on the beach in Fiji waiting for rock to wash on shore, gather it and place it inside a Walt Smith box.
I do believe some of what is on the net can be attributed to extremists who wish to thrust their fews on the majority. There is also some truth within the info. The extremists scream louder, use shock and demand to be heard. Those that walk the middle and are closer to the truth gather little attention ....as they are drowned out by the traffic passing on both sides.
I doubt there are many on this board that beleive it is okay to cause destruction under the ocean.

 

[mbrands]

Originally posted by reefraff
The Co-owner of the LFS here told me there was a law passed requiring all internet vendors to start pricing their items the same as local merchants. I was so proud of myself for not laughing in his face. He also has the only saltwater in exhistance that DECREASES in salanity due to evaporation. Your guy at least fed you a story that "could" be true.
There is no way they could stay in business long with their expert knowledge. I'd keep an eye out for a "going out of business sale". Maybe you'll find a good deal on a new tank or some hardgoods!

 

[mary]

This is not the forum for this discussions. I am not argueing with any of you because you are not reading the NOAH reports or the scientific data that is there to read, not radical, not extremest. Have you checked out Google and seen all the various reports that are very sound in the research that is being carried out. C'mon Beth and all you folks who know what is happening to the reefs? There is even some uplifting news on the ability of some corals to evolve in handling highter temperatures. Please prove to me that these Marine scientist who devote their time and energies to report what IS occurring to our reefs, is occurring. I want some names of those who are extremeist. You, we are supposed to be practicing husbandry of our planet, simply do not want to take any responsibility for the destruction of it so you can have a good time and leave the spoils to the next generation That is all I am saying. I know the sad reality and I suspect you are led by your "very human" greed. Now, I won't have any more to say unless it is on the "Off Topic}" forums. I didn't know so many Bush supporters were hobbiests! Dogone! In jest, partiallly!

 

[loopy]

 

[molamola]

A Republican Hobbyist Reflects on Election Day
Yes, on election-day, I put on my leather pants and mink coat, hopped in my H2 and basked in the warmth of the day and thanked God for the Global Warming I was contributing to. I voted straight Republican and went outside to shoot my gun in the air to celebrate. Then I bought a carton of cigarettes and passed them out to school children. I went to my job at (insert big corp. name here) and cooked the books to improve my bottom line and decided to take an extended lunch on company time. I had beluga and almond crusted harp seal. On my way home, I accidentally ran over a dozen endangered killdeer nesting in the median because I was on my cell phone and wasn’t watching the road. I felt kind of bad, so I decided to buy myself something to feel better. I went to the lfs and bought some fresh liverock for my tank, along with a nurse shark and three blue ring octopus. I felt so much better and shot my gun some more to celebrate, accidentally killing a condor and a carrier pigeon.
Yes, it is true that EVERY Republican hobbyist’s biggest concern in life is the DESTRUCTION of all of our most precious resources. Thank God for Ohio!

 

[scubadoo]

 

[loopy]

 

[reefraff]

Originally posted by mary
This is not the forum for this discussions. :
Up until someone presumed to post an opinion different from your own you thought it was. Your was the first "political" post in the thread.

 

[scubadoo]

MAry.....I did not say everything on the internet was wrong concerning the natural forming reefs. Many studies scientifically prove that man willingly and/or unwillingly has played a role to some extenet. I did say that I do not believe everything I read.
Extermists are present in all professions, religions, political parties, etc. Yes, some scientists have extremist views. Every now and then they are right....they are sometimes wrong too.
We can look as close as Y2K...and we now know that the extremists were wrong. Just an off topic recent occurence with predicitons of doom and gloom.
I do not beleive I said no human was respnsible for reef damage. I beleive I said some of the stuff on the net can be attributed to extremists as it pertains to the ocean and the enviornment . The ALF/ELF is a good example of extremist enviornmental orgnizations.
The original post was some nonsense that was stated by a lfs employee. They showed their ignorance by stating all live rock is yanked from a reef. They left out the aquacultured rock that was placed in the oceans near FL by man and meant to be harvested, as well as rock collected from shorlines and tidepools. The aquacultured preserves the natural reefs as these are man made. The rock broken off by storms, tidal surges etc are in shallow water or near the shore and would most likely persih if left where it is.
I should go to Google, type in coral reef and accept every piece of information as gospel? I have a mind...I choose to use it.
Since you asked..Gregor Hudgson..some scientists even consider him an extremist. He has some views regarding coral bleaching...he atrributes it to global warming ..others believe it as a natural occurence. casued by a "blip" or the sun heating. They beleive it is still to early to tell. Massive coral bleaching events were first tracked in the late 70's to early 80's. Hudgson views were viewed bymany in the scientific communtity as extreme in the late 1990's. I openly admit that I have not kept up with this topic and have no idea if he is still viewed as an extremist by scientists.
I agree this is not the forum for this type discussion..so why did you briing it up?
You do not know me or what I do or have done for my community. To say I am "greedy" without even knowing me is shameful. To assume I am a member of a certain political party is wrong. Have a great life...I know I will.

 

[loopy]

ScubaDoo.......:yes: This is not the place for her rantings....who knows why she then did it here. I only start this thread to tell what was said at the lfs. It has gotten way outa hand. Did she address my questions about the rest of the environment...no, she just ripped away. I'm with you ScubaDoo, and I hope you do have a great life and will continue too!!!!!

 

[scubadoo]

Loopy....we are all entitled to our opinions. I do take issue when what I have posted is distorted. I also take issue when someone must resort to peronal"attacks" to further their view. In my opinion the condascending tone is inappropriate for this forum....but we are all entitled to present our position in this tone if we choose.
Life has taught me to be respectful of opposing views....but little respect can be givien to someone that resorts to such nonsense when presenting their view.
Truth be known...I used to be atheist but I converted cause there wasn't enough holidays.

 

[mbrands]

<-- at MolaMola's posting