will cc star kill and eat cleaner shrimp?

fishwanabe

Member
Hello,
long story short I have a 55g and I found a cleaner shrimp dead and under my choc. chip star. Now my question is would the star be able to kill the shrimp or did he just happen upon a meal? more to the question, this is the second shrimp that I have found dead in the last week. What is killing them, everything water wise is good other than I just did a water change and my salt was too high (I think) specific gravity meter (am I using the right tester)? read 1.024 I brought it down to 1.022 (is it still too high)? More bad news, I was reading Lion_crazz 101 and #? stated to never buy a tank if you think there has been copper in it... did not know anything about copper at the time, and I now think it at one time had copper in it. The tank has very blue silicon and I found copper treatment in the supplies from the guy that I bought the tank from. Im I just losing a battle from the get go by keeping this tanK? the only thing That I have lost are the shrimp. Thanks
 

perfectdark

Active Member
Originally Posted by fishwanabe
Hello,
long story short I have a 55g and I found a cleaner shrimp dead and under my choc. chip star. Now my question is would the star be able to kill the shrimp or did he just happen upon a meal? more to the question, this is the second shrimp that I have found dead in the last week. What is killing them, everything water wise is good other than I just did a water change and my salt was too high (I think) specific gravity meter (am I using the right tester)? read 1.024 I brought it down to 1.022 (is it still too high)? More bad news, I was reading Lion_crazz 101 and #? stated to never buy a tank if you think there has been copper in it... did not know anything about copper at the time, and I now think it at one time had copper in it. The tank has very blue silicon and I found copper treatment in the supplies from the guy that I bought the tank from. Im I just losing a battle from the get go by keeping this tanK? the only think That I have lost are the shrimp. Thanks

Well first your salinity was ok at 1.024 and for a reef tank you can keep it at 1.026. Right now I would say its a tad low, however usung a plastic hydrometer often leads to inaccurate results. They claim that the best instrument to use is a lab grade glass hydrometer, next would be a refractometer. In either case the hydrometer you have may be more off than you think. More than likley the star did not kill your cleaner but more like stumbled upon a free meal. And I am pretty sure the tank you are using has been dosed with Quick Cure if the silicone is blue. The only way to tell if there is copper in your tank would be to get a copper test kit. However starfish in general IMO would be as suseptable to copper poisioning if that were the case and would also not be doing so well. You are going to have to post more about your tank to get better idea what could be happening. What size is it how long has it been established, what was it used for before. From the description of blue silicone was this a fresh water set up first? And then your water perameters, alk, trates, trites, temp, pH, calcium and amonia. Specific number too....
 

jthomas0385

Member
I have 2 peppermint shrimp and 1 CC star and they have been together now for about 2 months with out incident. One of my shrimp molted and the star got a hold of its old exoskeleton and I thought for sure he ate one but like I said it turned out to be its shell.
 

lexluethar

Active Member
Same here - i've had a CC starfish and one peppermint shrimp in the same tank for a few months without incident. I think your shrimp just died and the CC found him and started eating him.
As for the copper, in my experience i've dosed my tank with Copper when it used to be fresh water, and now I use the same tank for saltwater with no ill effects. I have corals, inverts, fish, everything has been okay.
I think something else is ary, perhaps nitrates are too high, ph too low, salinity too low.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Sorry for your loss.
*Get a refractometer to more accurately measure your salt levels. You don't want it fluctuating, and you want it to be 1.026 (sg). Inverts are sensitive to lowering salinity and can die from this.
*The star would eat a shrimp I'm sure, but it would have to catch them.
*There have been reports of copper leeching out of the silicone and back into a tank. Test your tank for copper.
 

perfectdark

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Sorry for your loss.
*Get a refractometer to more accurately measure your salt levels. You don't want it fluctuating, and you want it to be 1.026 (sg). Inverts are sensitive to lowering salinity and can die from this.
*The star would eat a shrimp I'm sure, but it would have to catch them.
*There have been reports of copper leeching out of the silicone and back into a tank. Test your tank for copper.
OK now I have a question.. I thought refracometers measure salinity not specific gravity.. Im not trying to catch you on a technicality I am actually curious because I see these to words thrown around often and typically following numbers that represent salinity not SG or am I misunderstanding something.
 

lexluethar

Active Member
Originally Posted by PerfectDark
OK now I have a question.. I thought refracometers measure salinity not specific gravity.. Im not trying to catch you on a technicality I am actually curious because I see these to words thrown around often and typically following numbers that represent salinity not SG or am I misunderstanding something.

I've heard the only reason they have the SG on the refractometers is because when they first came out, hobbiests were upset b/c they didn't know how to read salinity. So they added the SG side to the refractometer. I too am curious - and would like to know if on a refractometer the measurements are the same (for example a 35ppt salinity line - look to the left and you see 1.026 (i don't know don't have my ref. here but you get the idea), is that SG accurate? Or should you just use salinity?
 

perfectdark

Active Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
I've heard the only reason they have the SG on the refractometers is because when they first came out, hobbiests were upset b/c they didn't know how to read salinity. So they added the SG side to the refractometer. I too am curious - and would like to know if on a refractometer the measurements are the same (for example a 35ppt salinity line - look to the left and you see 1.026 (i don't know don't have my ref. here but you get the idea), is that SG accurate? Or should you just use salinity?
My refractometer only measures salinity or so it says down the bottom and the readings are 1.00 thru 1.whatever it maxes out at up top. Thats on the left on the right is the temperature of the water being tested.
 

lexluethar

Active Member
Oh - mine has the salinity ppt on the right, and then the SG on the left. And the SG generally is in line with the salinity (35ppt is even with 1.026). - i'm estimating i don't have my ref. at work :).
 

lexluethar

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Hydrometers measure SG.
Refractometers measure salinity, but many give the SG as well.
Is the SG they give accurate? Considering its a measure of gravity and not how light goes through salt and water...?
 

perfectdark

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Hydrometers measure SG.
Refractometers measure salinity, but many give the SG as well.

So when addressing salinity the proper format is 1.00... and when addressing SG the format is eg. 35ppt?
 

perfectdark

Active Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
Is the SG they give accurate? Considering its a measure of gravity and not how light goes through salt and water...?
I actually read a few articles that say refracometers are not as accurate as you might think. Based on some facts that right at this time I cannot recall, I will have to dig it up. And that the most accurate tool to use is a lab grade glass hydrometer.
 

lexluethar

Active Member
I've heard glass hydro. is the best too. As for the SG, when you speak of specific gravity you are talking hydrometers, and yes, with refractometers you should use 35ppt, b/c that is the actual salt content of the water.
 

perfectdark

Active Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
I've heard glass hydro. is the best too. As for the SG, when you speak of specific gravity you are talking hydrometers, and yes, with refractometers you should use 35ppt, b/c that is the actual salt content of the water.

hmmm so then why does my refracometer measure salinity and show me readings @ 1.024 or what ever. No where on it does it state numbers like 32ppt 35ppt etc...
 

lexluethar

Active Member
I have no clue - like I said earlier I think the industry standard became trying to give people SG instead of Salinity because that is what people wanted. So i'm sure there are refractometers out there that do not show salinity and just so SG. But this is why i'm asking, b/c i don't think the SG is accurate on the refractometers, how could it be? I mean if a refractometer measure how light travels through water, and that gives you a reading of how many salt particles are in the water (ppt), then how in the world can in measure SG when that is technically a different method of measuring salt? SG is measuring the density of the water (which is why temp matters), the more i think about this subject the more i get confused...
So is there a general rule of thumb, as to say at 78 degrees, a reading of 35ppt is really 1.026 SG, or SG at 1.026 at 78 degress is 35ppt?
SOMEONE PLEASE STOP MY HEAD FROM HURTING!
 

perfectdark

Active Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
I have no clue - like I said earlier I think the industry standard became trying to give people SG instead of Salinity because that is what people wanted. So i'm sure there are refractometers out there that do not show salinity and just so SG. But this is why i'm asking, b/c i don't think the SG is accurate on the refractometers, how could it be? I mean if a refractometer measure how light travels through water, and that gives you a reading of how many salt particles are in the water (ppt), then how in the world can in measure SG when that is technically a different method of measuring salt? SG is measuring the density of the water (which is why temp matters), the more i think about this subject the more i get confused...
So is there a general rule of thumb, as to say at 78 degrees, a reading of 35ppt is really 1.026 SG, or SG at 1.026 at 78 degress is 35ppt?
SOMEONE PLEASE STOP MY HEAD FROM HURTING!

LOL Its starting to make sense to me now.. and I have read that @ 80* 35ppt S.G. equates to a salinity of 1.026. Although i have never tested this...
 

lexluethar

Active Member
AWESOME!!! Ya that is what I was confused about - i realize with temperature it may vary a little bit. Thanks dark! So 80 degrees is the general rule when measuring.
And to stay on topic and not steal the thread - i think you need to test for copper. If you have problems keeping any inverts a low SG/salinity reading or copper can kill them off. Then tend to be hardy (from my experience) when it comes to nitrates. There is a post somewhere on here about dosing copper in tanks, then draining them and reusing them for saltwater. The gist of the article said that there is no evidence that copper can be held within silicon and secreated later into the tank. Something about if your tank was sealed with silicon made before like 1980 then yes it will secrete, but after that the high quality silicons will not secrete stuff back into the tank.
I will repost if i find that article.
 

fishwanabe

Member
meanwhile back at the ranch
, thanks for all the imput, Ill have to check all my water and PH, its was all ok this am, now I have to add salt, what do I do just take some of the h20 out and add more with higher salt count or just dissolve some in a small amount of h20 and add to tank? Thanks again. Marla
 
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