Will the Berlin System work for me?

cogreywolf

Member
My LFS is trying to sell me a Euro Fil 180 sump without a bioball chamber for my new 75 gallon tank. All it has is a sack for the water to flow through. From my understanding, this is the Berlin filtration method. My tank will consist of a deep sand bed, 1lb of live rock per gallon. I don't plan on having any corals. Just lots of fish. Will the live rock and live sand and a Prizm Protein Skimmer (this skimmer is optional, fill in with the brand you think I should get) be enough filtration to support my 75 gal. FOWLR? Please help.:confused:
 

tangman99

Active Member
The only part that concern me is the "Lots of fish" statement. I run a berlin system on my 90 gallon reef. I currently have a 4" DSB and 100 lbs of fiji live rock. I have a few frags of coral, a variety of snails, 2 fighting conchs and a serpent star. For fish I have a yellow tang, a false percula, royal gramma, firefish and 2 green chromis.
I use my old wet/dry for a sump that has no bio-balls and berlin turbo hang on skimmer (Yes, it's garbage but it does remove some stuff).
The berlin system works great for me but I would be afraid to add any more fish to my 90 and 6 fish does not equal "Lots of fish" for my definition. I could probably get away with a couple of more, but I'm more interested in getting it stocked with corals now.
HTH,
Tangman
 

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
berlin method should work fine, to be safe you might think about adding a little more live rock. Make sure you DSB is at least 4". As for the prizm i dont have personal experience but ive heard it works better for smaller tanks. Matter of fact i just read a post somewhere on here about that.
HTH,
Good Luck
 

cogreywolf

Member
I am thinking of putting more live rock in the sump for more biological filtration. I wouldn't say I am going to put lots of fish. Approximately 6 fish. How many inches of fish can I have in a 75 gallon setup with the berlin system. Would it be possible to have one 3 inch fish, three 2 inch fish, and two 1 inch fish?
 

birdy

Active Member
the general rule is 1inch of fish per 5gal of water, I prefer to slowly add fish and let the tank adjust and see how it is stabilizing with the amount of fish in the tank. I would recommend a better skimmer than the prizm, with a sump you can get an insump model. I have a prizm on my 46 and I wish I had gotten a better model.
 

tangman99

Active Member
You should be fine, but make sure you add them slowly. I would not add more than one at a time and no sooner than 2 weeks apart. Check your ammonia after each addition to see how long it takes for the system to adapt. You will know when you are pushing it as it will take longer for the tank to adapt. Also, more fish means more feeding so you need to be careful of how much and how often you feed.
You also need to take a look at the type of live rock you use. One pound per gallon does not always work. It takes 2 pounds of Florida Aquacultured rock to provide the same filtration benefits as one pound of fiji as fiji is much more porous.
 

cogreywolf

Member
Here is my major fear. I am transferring some of these fish from an existing setup. My live rock and live sand are from an established tank. What should I do with my fish. Should I keep some bioballs in the wetdry and slowly work them out or just move my entire system II setup into the new 75 gallon berlin system. I don't think there will be enough filtration, even with a great protein skimmer. :confused:
 

tangman99

Active Member
Here is what I did starting with a well established 90 Gallon Fish only with Crushed Coral substate and fake rock. At the time I had the Yellow Tang, Heniochous, Percula Clown and a Singapore Angel. I had a wet/dry filter and protein skimmer.
The first thing I did was scoop out all the crushed coral and replace it with 200 lbs of pure aragonite. My tank looked like milk for a couple of days. It was not from adding the sand, but removing the crushed coral that had been in there for two years. I monitored my ammonia expecting a possible small spike, but it never occured. All the fish made it fine and every now and then I would see an eye up against the glass trying to see what was going on outside.
Three weeks later I pulled out all my fake rock and replaced it with 100 lbs of fully cured fiji. This requires great care and trust in the source of your rock. I only noticed a very small raise in ammonia that was so close to 0 it really did not count. Again, I had the well established wet/dry. If you are interested in who I purchase this rock from, drop me an email.
Starting the next week, I began removing about a dozen bio-balls from the wet/dry a week. After about 6 weeks, all the bio-balls were out and I was just left with the sump. I also removed the big sponge and the filter pad. The only mechanical filtration that I use at all now is my protein skimmer to remove waste.
I've been running this way now for 3 months. Before my nitrates were always around 60 or 80. Now they are less than 5 and seem to be pretty constant.
Oh, by the way. I did not loose any fish. I returned the Singapore and Heniochous as they were not working out to well in the reef. I added some others in their place.
 

cogreywolf

Member
TangMan99, I could definately use your help. Please read and respond accordingly. Review my plans.
I currently run a 65 gallon seaclear system II acrylic aquarium, with a hangon Prizm Protein Skimmer. Two in ank powerheads for water flow. 260 Watts of Powercompacts. I have a two inch sand and 60-80 pounds of live rock and lace rock. I believe all the rock is now live rock. I have coraline algae growing on both the live and lace rock. Now for the bad part. Please don't get too upset. I might have too many fish in my tank. I have a Black Tang, Chevron Tang, Majestic Angel, Flame Angel, Neon Dottyback, and a cleaner wrasse. I also have a great cleanup crew. They are all alive and thriving. I have had them for some time now. Can I keep these fish on the Berlin Filtration method with the following setup.
I am buying a 75 gallon glass tank with a builtin overflow which should handle alot of gallons per hour. I will have 4 built-in returns in the tank so I won't have any powerheads in the tank. I have a small Amiracle wet dry which can handle a tank around 75 gallons, but doesn't allow me to put any equipment in the sump. I am thinking I would purchase a Euro Fil 180 sump and put more live rock in the tank and in the sump. As far as the Protein skimmer is concerned, I am not sure if I need to upgrade to a new one. I would like to have two Quiet One pumps in the sump for the returns. I will also add 2 more inches of live sand to make a deep sand bed, and add some more live rock to fill the tank.
Tangman99,what do you think. Can I keep this FOWLR tank going on the Berlin Filtration Method. i.e. no bioballs. I was told for a FOWLR, you have to have bioballs.
HELP! :confused:
cogreywolf@hotmail.com
 

tangman99

Active Member
Ok. I'll give my opinion on what I would do if I were going to attempt the switch. No guarantees and I would definitely seek additional opinions. This is strictly my opinion and I could be mistaken on a few items.
Number one: The best possible solution would be to find someone who could keep your fish for you temporarily until you can add them back to your tank. That may or may not be possible so we will work on the assumption that you can't.
One thing I'm confused about is what you currently have for filtration. Is it the small amiricle wet/dry? If so, this will help.
The one advantage I had was I was not switching tanks and I was able to do this in three parts, sand bed, live rock and then bio-ball removal. As far as having a FOWLR without bioballs, it is definitely possible. You are switching tanks so it will be a little more difficult.
The main thing we want to keep in mind is too keep as much of the biological fitration alive as possible when moving into the new tank. The more we can save, the more ammonia we can convert.
If I'm right about the existing wet/dry, you currently have bacteria in three locations that we can bring over - the wet/dry, your live rock and your sandbed. I would proceed as follows:
1. Have plenty of make up water on hand in case you get ammonia spikes after the conversion.
2. Place the new sand in the bottom of your new 75 and spread it out. I don't know if you want to have a support structure for your rock or if you are just going to place it on top of the sand so decide before you start.
3. Fill your tank about 1/3 full with new RO or RO/DI water matching the salinity and temp of your existing tank as close as possible. If you put some plastic over your sand, it will float up as you add the water and disturb the sand less.
4. Shut down your old tank and move the rock and existing fish to rubbermaid tubs using your existing tank water. You need to put them here because you have to switch your sand over. If you choose to use all new sand, you can just move it directly to your new tank when you get your sandbed setup. You will need to keep in mind that the longer your wet/dry is off, the more bacteria on the bio-balls will die off so you want to complete this start to finish once you begin.
5. Now carefully remove your old sand and place on top of your new sand. If your sand is alive, this will seed your new sand with critters and bacteria. Be very careful if you have bristleworms in your sandbed as they sting. If you are going to use all new sand, use a little of your old sand to help seed it.
6. When you get all the sand added, you will probably have a slight sand storm in your tank. Go ahead and add your live rock the best you can with what visibility you have. Plan on redoing it after the sand settles in a day or so. I would not add any new live rock at this time unless you are absolutely sure it is 100% cured. No need in adding additional ammonia at this point.
7. When you get all your rock in the tank, finish filling up the tank. I would use about 1/2 of the water from the old tank with new makeup water. Install your (hopefully) existing wet/dry and additional equipement needed to get it powered up and then add your fish.
8. At this point we have a new 75 gallon with a 4" DSP, 80 lbs of live rock and our fish which we probably can't see any of at this time. You also have the wet/dry working, skimmer and a return pump.
The important part of this is the existing wet/dry. It will continue to provide biological filtration for you along with your live rock. The sandbed is pretty much going to be useless for a few weeks until it settles in and starts developing the bacteria that will help you eliminate nitrates which is what makes a DSB rock.
Do not feed your tank for a couple of days. The fish will be fine and they are going to be a little stressed anyway after the move. The addition of food just adds more waste which we do not need right now.
Monitor your ammonia a couple of times a day to make sure you don't get a spike. If you do, keep a close eye on it as it may be very small and not require any attention. If it is large, you may have to do a water change or use some kind of ammolock product. I've never used them and really can't tell you anything about them. They may not be good to use so others may be more helpful with them.
If all goes perfect, you should settle right in with stable water readings. If ammo and nitrites stay or get down to zero after a week or so, start removing a few bio-balls every week. I removed around 12 or so at a time. Keep an eye on your ammo again. The bacteria you remove will have to be replaced and the only thing to replace it will be the live rock and sandbed. Keep this up until all the bio-balls are gone. If you get to a point where you remove the bio-balls and the ammo becomes unstable, you may have to add some more live rock for additional filtration or remove some fish. Keep in mind what I mentioned before. The more porous the live rock, the better filtration it provides. 1 lb of fiji will filter about as much as 2 lbs of Fl. aquacultured rock. Fiji is not the only porous rock, but the one I am most familiar with.
Once you get rid of the bio-balls, don't waste your money on a new wet/dry just to use as a sump. 29 Gallon aquariums are very popular to use as sumps and much cheaper.
Hopefully some others with more experience will chime in and add to what I've recommended and correct me or offer better ways to do some things.
Good luck and I'll check back if you have any questions, but it is usually late at night before I can get on. Hopefully I did not forget anything.
Tangman
 
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