Yellow Tang Fighting with New Arrival?

richl

Member
I just added a juvenile French Angelfish to my 125 gal FOWLR tank after 5 weeks quarantine. He's about 2.5 inches and very healthy. The dominant inhabitants are 2 Heniochus Butterflies who are about 3.5 inches each and seem to rule the tank. I also have a Klein's Butterfly and a small Yellow Tang that's only slightly larger than the French. I have always considered the YT as a runt since he has stayed small and seems so subservient to the much larger Butterflies. I added the French in the dark last night after everyone was fed and after I moved around some rock and added some decoarations to confuse everyone about their territory. Today, the French is swimming all throughout the water column and seems to be getting along wither everyone, except the Tang. The Tang seems to be spending a lot of time near his sleeping area and whenever the French is in proximity the Tang swims over and flicks his tail blade at the French. He also does this when they are near each other in other parts of the tank.I don't see anything that looks like a real fight and I don't see any evidence of any injury to the French, but I am concerned. Is this just posturing by the Tang or do I have a real problem on my hands. Any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated
Thanks
 

btldreef

Moderator
I would definitely be keeping an eye on this. The YT has realized that he finally has someone to pick on and is taking advantage of it. YT's are aggressive fish and usually don't tank well to new comers.
If the tail slapping is as far as it ever goes, you'll see it here and there, but they should otherwise getting along. If the YT is stalking this other fish (sitting outside it's sleeping area/following it around the tank/etc) you will probably start to see the stalked fish get very stressed. Be on the look out for nipping, although I usually don't experience YT's nip, they just harass the fish to death.
You might want to consider trying to catch the YT, putting him in the QT and let the new fish establish territory without harassment. After a few weeks, return the YT and see if things are better.
 
S

siptang

Guest
yea, definately keep an eye out. As BTL stated earlier, they are bit aggressive but usually passive. Give them a week to gel they will usually get along.
 
Omg I am having a similar problem with my Regal Angel and Yellow Eye Kole Tang. Unfortunetly my angel is getting stressed and has a cloudy eye. You can follow my post "Fish With Cloudy Eye" in the Fish Discussion Forum, so you know what to do in case the same happens to you. Hopefully it wont...
PS: i still dont really have a solution, except "feed ur fish a lot, and try to destress them" so maybe youll have better luck.
 

richl

Member
The French has now been in the DT for 9 days. I only saw the YT threaten him within the first couple of days and thought things were really improving, but now I'm more worried than ever. Although the French joined in enthusiastically during Sunday morning's feeding, he did not feed Sunday evening, Monday morning, Monday evening or Tuesday morning. He has missed 4 feedings though I don't know whether he forages in between. He mostly stays in hiding and rarely swims in the water column, though I still don't see anyone harrassing him. I also do not see any change in his coloration and I don't see any sign at alll of any frayed fins or wounds that would suggest abuse. He is just not eating and seems lethargic. This morning, he swam by a Coral Banded shrimp so slowly that the CB tried to gab him and actually had him in his grasp for a second or two. I'm concerned that he is weakening. I'm thinking of putting him back in the QT at least until he regains strength. If he recovers, maybe I'll put the Tang in the QT for a while when I put the French back in the DT. I think if I do nothing, the French will expire pretty soon. Anyone have recommendations or ideas? Thanks
 

btldreef

Moderator
Are you home during the day at all, or is anyone, to observe whether he is foraging during the day or not? Angels should be picking at filamentous algae on the rocks throughout the day.
Also, what are you feeding?
IMO, the YT harassed him too much, and now he's afraid of his surroundings. You have two options, take one or the other out of the tank. My suggestion would be to remove the Angel and place him back in QT and monitor him. If he does well and you're ready to return him to the DT, move around some rocks if possible, but get the YT and and give him a time out in the QT.
 

richl

Member
Thanks for your comments. There's no one to monitor them during the day, but I did see the YT snap his tail at the French this morning. I observed them for about 30 minutes this morning and there was just the one brush for a few seconds. The French moves but the YT doesn't chase him. The French wasn't hiding when I first saw him this morning, but he stayed near the bottom when everyone else went up near the surface at feeding time. I feed a variety of frozen food (Angel/Butterfly formula, Brine w Spirulina, Mysis), small omnivore pellets, spirulina flakes and seaweed sheets (brown, red, green). The French loved the seaweed and Angel/Butterfly formula when he was in QT and also when he first went into the DT. I usually would cut the seaweed into bite size morsals and float it on the surface, but lately he won't go to the surface to get it, so I have been feeding mostly the pellets since they will fall to the bottom where he seems to stay. I put some seaweed on a clip near his cave, but I won't be able to tell who eats it.My guess is that neither fish will be easy to catch (any tips?), but I'll try to catch the French first since he definitely needs a vacation. Thanks
 

btldreef

Moderator
The fact that you're seeing the YT tail slap definitely means he's showing dominance. You don't have to see it often, because the French Angel has already discovered that the YT means business.
Honestly, I'd get rid of this YT and try a new one later on. Depending on what else you plan to add to this tank, you might want to make a YT your last addition as the are prone to pick on newcomers.
I have almost all of my fish trained to eat from my hand, it helps when it's time to catch them. They don't fear my hand, or the net. Try holding the seaweed strips in your hand half way down the tank and make the fish ear from your hand. Keep the net in the tank while you do this. If you have time, do this multiple times this evening, you can condition them quickly not to fear the hand or net, then make your attempt. Most of the time thus works, especially with larger fish. I know your fish aren't full grown, so you may have to resort to the old fashioned chase method and just hope to catch them.
Good luck!
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I would advise deciding which fish you want to keep. It is clear that the YT is not going to tolerate this new addition and with the aggressive posturing going on, the YT could very well kill him in short order.
Remove one of them, QT for a week or so, then see if you can trade him out for something else at the LFS.
You may have reached your capacity for fish in the 125.
 

richl

Member
I decided the best option was to move the Tang to the QT. Moving the French would have given him a reprieve from the abuse, but it would not have dealt with the issue of the Tang's aggressive nature. The French is a beautiful fish with a nice personality, so I definitely prefer to keep him. It took me a while to catch the YT. I had to take out most the the live rock (buckets with DT water), but he is is now in the QT. There was some commotion in the DT with all the rock movement, but everyone seems calmed down now and the French is not hiding. I wasn't able to put all the rocks back exactly as they were, but everyone seems more curious than stressed and there seems to be increased feeding on the rocks, maybe since some undersides have been exposed. Thank you everyone for your suggestions and for helping me to think this out. So far, I'm happy with the decision, but I'll have to see how thinks go. Thanks.
 

richl

Member
It's only the next morning and the change is amazing. He joined in the morning feeding though not as aggressively as his tankmates who are voracious eaters. He did go to the surface for some spirulina flakes which is the first time he has gone anywhere near the surface in a week. He had been limiting himself to the rocks at one end of the tank, but now he's enjoying the entire tank and no one seems to object. Although I had observed him picking at algae on rocks during his stressful period, I was very happy to see him take prepared food. The YT is small and seems ok in the 20 gal QTthough I'm sure he's stressed from being caught and moved.. He has a fake cave and a number of other decorations and swims in and out of them. He did not come to the surface to feed but has been pecking on the bottom. I had put some pellets in the QT to help keep it cycled, so he probably ate some. Should I consider allowing him back in the DT after a month or so? Will he then recognize that the French is established and leave him alone or will he know he can bully the French? Am I better off giving the Tang away? The 2 Heniochus Butterflies are fairly large and the Klein's Butterly is moderate. I also have 2 small Ocellaris Clownfish who keep to them selves in a cove. I know the French has the potential to grow much larger than all of them, so maybe I'm better off not to reintroduce the Tang? Thanks.
 

btldreef

Moderator
That's great news.
If you are to introduce a YT again, I would make it a different one. This one already knows how to be aggressive, and new small one introduced last will probably learn to be more timid. In all honesty, your tank could get maxed out without the YT being in there. If you are to add more fish, maybe try smaller fish, such as wrasses and anthias, etc to give the tank some diversity.
 
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