Yellow Tang with HLLE and bacterial infection

adurost

Member
YT has a confirmed case of HLLE and a bacterial infection.
(see https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/364131/yellow-tang-with-ich for diagnosis history)
I've been trying to lower the nitrates in my 90G FOWLR with a weekly 15G WC, and to improve nutrition by feeding nori instead of romaine lettuce (after offering it for 3 days, the tang finally started eating the nori today! yeah!) and 1 cube SFBB Emerald Entree and 1 cube brine shrimp with finely grated fresh garlic (no one in the tank likes the garlic; the first time I added it to the food mix I saw a chromis eat a piece and then spit it out! Now they all just avoid it and it blows around the tank until it ends up in the overflow
)
Three questions:
#1: Would it be in the best interest of the YT to move it to my 10G QT right now (moving the blue hippo tang and cleaner wrasse into the DT) and begin treatment of the bacterial infection, or keep it in the DT for another 10 days until the 21-day quarantine of the BT and wrasse is complete?
#2: Zoecon, Selcon, and Vitachem have all been recommended as supplements; I've seen posts that folks have used two or even all three to treat their fish. Is there a benefit to using a combination or is a single supplement sufficient?
#3: How much should I feed? The fish don't go crazy over the Emerald Entree/shrimp/garlic mix like they do for the ON Reef Flakes and Formula II pellets, so I only put about 1/4 tsp in the tank. That doesn't seem like it is enough, but if I add any more it just ends up in the overflow box. (I've got 2 ocellaris clowns, 4 green chromis, 1 royal gramma, 1 lawnmower blenny, and the yellow tang in th DT).
The picture below was taken this morning; the pitting has definitely become more pronounced in the last couple of days. I would appreciate any advice on ways to encourage the YT to what I am offering. Thanks in advance!
 

meowzer

Moderator
I would use all the above mentioned vitamins, but rotate them..also add garlic extreme, and keep water quality excellent
HLLE can be reversed, but it does take time
 

aquaguy24

Active Member
If the scares are to severe or deep it will leave marks but should make a come if fed right. U can turn off pumps when feeding. So it doesnt go in the overflow boxw
 

adurost

Member
Thanks for the replies. I am hoping to that I will be able to find Zoecon, Selcon, and/or Vitachem locally.
What about the bacterial infection? Just try to beef up immunity through diet/nutrition and don't worry about it for the time being? I'm guessing that I shouldn't add Maracyn II to the DT, right?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, move the YT to the QT and move the other fish to display. I believe its been 3 weeks for these other fish in QT, right?
The YT needs immediate attention with antibiotic treatment, Maracyn Two for SW fish. Be sure that the QT has very good water movement, especially at the surface of the tank. Do a small water change just before each dose of the antibiotic. The first dose should be double. If you can't find the SW variety, get the FW variety, then double the dosage.
Keep tank lights off in QT, but keep some lighting in the room so that the QT is not in darkness. You can use the tank lights to feed the fish, but then turn them off after an hour.
If this fish is still eating, feed him at least twice a day with food soaked in freshly minced garlic (look at the FAQ Topic for garlic info). Include algae sheets for him to graze. If he is not eating, then wait on the food. Be sure to vacuum up uneaten food out of QT.
Add a couple cups of sand from your display into the QT.
On the display, do 2 gal water change daily for maintenance, instead of weekly water change. This is a lot healthier for your tank than bigger weekly water changes. Plan to address the issue causing the nitrates, or you will soon find your Hippo in the same condition.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Plan to address the issue causing the nitrates, or you will soon find your Hippo in the same condition.
Beth this is a relatively new and exciting area of research. As it was always believed stray voltage or vitamin deficiency was the cause, more and more studys point to tanks with nitrates over 40 being the norm for fish coming down with HLLE
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Yep, I have know that for a long time actually. HLLE, like any immune disease, likely has more than one trigger. Nitrates is a clear indication the the tank is not sufficiently exporting organics. Tangs, particularly have shown time and again to have very low tolerance to such conditions.
My recommendation is not to even think about keeping tangs in anything more than a system with trace nitrates.
 

adurost

Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3122065
Yes, move the YT to the QT and move the other fish to display. I believe its been 3 weeks for these other fish in QT, right?
Not yet... I bought them on 8/15 so it's been 11 days of QT so far.
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3122065
The YT needs immediate attention with antibiotic treatment, Maracyn Two for SW fish. Be sure that the QT has very good water movement, especially at the surface of the tank. Do a small water change just before each dose of the antibiotic. The first dose should be double. If you can't find the SW variety, get the FW variety, then double the dosage.
Keep tank lights off in QT, but keep some lighting in the room so that the QT is not in darkness. You can use the tank lights to feed the fish, but then turn them off after an hour.
The QT sits on a stand beside the DT, do I need to move it so that the lights from the DT don't shine in?
Originally Posted by Beth

http:///forum/post/3122065
If this fish is still eating, feed him at least twice a day with food soaked in freshly minced garlic (look at the FAQ Topic for garlic info). Include algae sheets for him to graze. If he is not eating, then wait on the food. Be sure to vacuum up uneaten food out of QT.
Yes, he is still eating, he just doesn't seem to like the special garlic-enhanced food I've been offering.
Yesterday he finally started eating the nori, and now today he is gulping down huge chunks. Incidentally, the lawnmower blenny has now found the nori and is enjoying it too, as are the cleaner wrasse and blue hippo in the QT. Should I put nori in the tank everyday? How big a piece?
I am picking up some Vitachem today, but no LFS on island has Zoecon or Selcon so I am going to have to order it online. One LFS I called has a food soak called GVH and a supplement called V3, ever heard of them?
BTW, how small do you mince the garlic? I used a garlic press the first time which releases a lot of the garlic oil, but the pieces seemed large when I saw them blowing around the tank uneaten. The second time I used a Microplane Grater which made very thin shredded pieces of garlic, but the fish still didn't eat it. I've noticed that there is sediment beginning to build around the bulkheads of the HOB Overflow, should I turn off the pump and take the overflow apart to clean it?
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Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3122065
On the display, do 2 gal water change daily for maintenance, instead of weekly water change. This is a lot healthier for your tank than bigger weekly water changes. Plan to address the issue causing the nitrates, or you will soon find your Hippo in the same condition.
Would it be better to take this water from the DT or the sump? Or does it even matter? Still clean 1/4 of the bio-balls and the blue filter on the trickle plate every two-weeks or more/less ?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
You are running a risk putting the other fish in the display after so little time.
Can you get Maracyn Two for SW fish?
 

adurost

Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3122608
You are running a risk putting the other fish in the display after so little time.
Can you get Maracyn Two for SW fish?
I read about using Methelyne Blue & FW to dip fish to pre-treat for ich and other parasites. Could I do that prior to adding the blue hippo and wrasse to the DT?
Every LFS I've gone to is out of Maracyn 2. The store I go to most frequently suggested Nitrofurazone (1 capsule per 10 gal, treats both gram-positive & negative bacteria), so I did purchase that but I haven't used it yet. Read some posts from others about using Melafix & Pimafix together to treat naturally...?
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
My recommendation is not to even think about keeping tangs in anything more than a system with trace nitrates.
I think what may be an inherent problem here is that the hobbyist reads low nitrates, introduces a tang which you and I know are ravenous eaters. The added bio load overwhelms the denitrification process causing nitrates to rise. Before and if ever equilibrium is established again the tang is afflicted with Hlle
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Joe, that could well be. The conscientious hobbyist will need to take those variables into consideration when planning on stocking. Feeding less is not the answer.
Go with the Nitrofurazone and tell me how many mg the dose is on the product you get. Maracyn Two is better.
Don't do FW dips on the fish. Unless you see ich, there is no point to a FW dip, in my view.
 

adurost

Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3122858
Go with the Nitrofurazone and tell me how many mg the dose is on the product you get. Maracyn Two is better.
Each capsule contains Nitrofurazone 380 mg. There are 8 capsules in the pkg. Instructions on pkg: Add 1 capsule to each 10G aquarium water. May repeat in 24 hrs. Partial WC of 25-50% necessary with repeat dosage. Do not use with any other antibiotic. Activated charcoal should not be used during treatment, but should be used after treatment to clear aquarium water, or use a partial WC to speed up clearing. Greenish color will dissipate on its own over time.
Originally Posted by Beth

http:///forum/post/3122858
Don't do FW dips on the fish. Unless you see ich, there is no point to a FW dip, in my view.
I just took a good long look at the blue hippo and the cleaner wrasse currently in the QT. Nothing on the hippo, but there is a small white spot toward the back of the wrassse's dorsal fin. Tried to get a picture, but he is never still! Does it look like ich to you? I'm not sure what the next step is now...

 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, proceed with the medication as directed on the label. Be sure to have very good water circulation going. And follow the instructions I gave you before.
Do the water change just before a redose. After 2 doses let us know where the fish stands. You may want to try and get Maracyn Two online.
That spot on the wrasse is not ich. Maybe a bit of lymphocyctis.
What are the water readings in the QT?
 

adurost

Member
QT as of 1:50pm
Temp 82
SG 1.024
pH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite .5-1.0 (tested 2x and the color was a shade in between both times)
Nitrate 20 (using tap water which tested at 10-20 ppm; a RO/DI has moved to top of the list of equipment to purchase.)
So that I am absolutely clear on what to do:
Move hippo tang and cleaner wrasse to DT.
Move yellow tang to QT.
Good water circulation in QT... Should I maybe add an air stone?
Add 1 capsule Nitrofurazone to 10G QT.
After 24 hrs 3G WC (or should it be 5G?) and add 1 capsule Nitrofurazone.
After 24 hrs 3-5G WC and report back.
By additional instructions you mean: add 2C sand from DT; feed nori, Vitachem, and garlic infused foods; remove uneaten food from tank, right?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Unfortunately, your QT is not in too good shape, especially to be doing a medication treatment.
 

adurost

Member
I moved the fish and began the Nitrofurazone treatment in the QT Thursday afternoon. Over a 48 hr period I have given 2 capsules of Nitrofurazone, performing a 3G WC approx 1/2 hr before each dose. Tang is eating, but not very much, and spends most of the time behind the artificial coral in the bottom corner of the tank by the pump intake. As of 5 pm tonight the yellow tang still had reddish streaks on sides and fins, and was occaisionally dipping to the side & 'scratching', so I administered a 3rd capsule.
Water parameters are improved, but still not perfect:
Temp 78
SG 1.023
pH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 1.0 (Added 1 tsp Amquel+ and tested again after 1/2 hr; Nitrite = .50)
Nitrate 20
Should the YT stay in the QT until the reddish streaks are gone? How long do I medicate? I have ordered Maracyn 2 and it should be here by the end of next week.
Daily 30% water changes in the QT seem to have made a difference in the Ammonia & Nitrate levels, but not touched the Nitrites, and even Amquel+ isn't bringing it down the 2 ppm like the bottle instructions say it will. Could the medication alter the test results somehow? Should I increase WC to 50% (5G)?
Thanks for your continued assistance.
 

adurost

Member
Performed 50% WC yesterday and tested water afterwards:
Temp 82
SG 1.023
pH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 1.0
Nitrate 10
Added 1 tsp of Amquel+, tested Nitrite again after 30min and it was .50. Added 1 capsule Nitrofurazone.
Now finishing up Day 5 of treatment and YT is looking worse instead of better; more reddish areas on body, beak, and into fins. YT is eating, but seems to have less appetite than before; I added some Vitachem to the water column this morning.
The package of medication contains 8 capsules... should I continue with the Nitrofurazone treatment, or stop now and put the carbon filter back in and monitor the YT's condition for a couple days?
(Sorry the picture isn't very good; lighting is not great and the Nitrofurzone adds a green tint to the water.)
 

adurost

Member
Ugghh! Just finished the 3.5G WC and plugged the HOB power filter back in... nothing!! There is an airstone running for surface movement/oxygen, but no filtration at this point. My hubby is stopping on the way home from work to pick up another power filter. I'm thinking I should use the existing bio-filter pad rather than replacing it a new one (with the new pump), please correct me if I'm wrong.
This hobby was supposed to be a challenge, but enjoyable overall. Right now I'm just feeling discouraged...
 

mkroher

Member
I also have my yellow tang in the QT for the same symptoms as yours. I'm running Furan2 (that was my best choice at the LFS).
Today is his last day in the QT according to the medication instructions, but it looks like he still has a bacteria infection.
Yes I know it's frustrating and discouraging.
Those HOB filters can be a pain. Sometimes I have to smack mine, or reseat that tube that goes into the propeller to get it to start working again.
 
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