Yellow tang with Ich?

adurost

adurost

Member
My yellow tang has scratches near his tail on both sides of his body. Could he have accidentally scatched himself on the rock (he is quite skiddish and darts about the tank and often swims through a rock arch)? Or is this something else... Ich, bacterial infection, HLLE? He has been in my 90gal FOWLR for 2 1/2 weeks now, and no, I did not QT
.
In addition to the 4-5" yellow tang the DT inhabitants are:
9 zebra hermit crabs
5 turbo snails
2 black narcissus snails
1 hawaiian feather duster
4 sea hares
1 tiny black pencil urchin
1 small unidentified crab
4 green chromis
2 2" ocellaris clownfish
1 royal gramma
1 lawnmower blenny
I have a 10gal QT set up now with a 3" blue hippo tang and cleaner wrasse... Should I take the yellow tang out and put him in the QT?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
The red to me indicates a bacterial infection I would start a treatment of Maracyn 2 as per the treatment instuctions
 
adurost

adurost

Member
Ok, this afternoon the yellow tang is definitely swimming around like he's feeling itchy... he dips to the side and rubs his body on the sand and/or rock as he goes by. Should I take him out of the DT and put him in the 10 gal QT (along with the blue hippo and cleaner wrasse) or just leave him in the DT? I need to go to the LFS to pick up the Maracyn 2, should I pick up some Cupramine as well? Which do you treat first: the bacterial infection, ich, or both concurrently?
I've been searching the disease forum and am totally freaked out... The little dots near his eye are actually pitting related to HLLE? And the white line on his side is a sign of stress and/or malnutrition?!
He's been gobbling up the Formula II pellets, picking at the LR, and crunching the romaine lettuce I put in a clip as recommended by the LFS. Besides not doing the initial QT, am I doing anything wrong, or did I just pick out a bad (sick) fish?
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
He has a bacterial infection, which would make him rub because it irritates the skin, and the beginning of HLLE. This is not a catastrophy, but does need to be dealt with. Being that both can be treated with a high quality diet, I suggest that we start there. Skip the pellets and begin feeding him either a high quality frozen blend food for tangs, or make your own. Beth has a recipe in the first FAQ at the top of this board. If you want to go with frozen then RODs has a good tang blend. Start adding nori sheets to the tank rather than romain lettuce. Pick up some vitamins such as Vitachem and Zoecon. Rotate that on all of his meals. Be sure that the water quality is spot on. Do a couple of water changes to reduce the amount of bacteria that are attacking him right now. It is similar to treating a cold. Keep his immune system high.
Just in case you cannot treat this naturally, have a cycled QT ready. You cannot treat a sick fish in an uncycled tank.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
This fish needs a cycled QT immediately. He needs treatment with Maracyn Two for bacterial infection. A 10 gal tank is not big enough for 1 tang let alone two tangs.
What are the water readings in your tank?
 
adurost

adurost

Member
Water parameters at 9:30 am today
90 gal DT
Temp 82.7
SG 1.024
pH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40
10 gal QT
Temp 82
SG 1.023
pH 7.8
Ammonia .5
Nitrite 1.0
Nitrate 40
The blue tang is only about 3" and the yellow about 5". I know the 10 gal is really too small for the both of them, but I'd read that a 10 gal tank was sufficient for a QT; should I take the risk and move the blue to the DT in order to use the QT to treat the yellow?
LFS recommended Nitrofurazone as an alternative to Maracyn 2; said it did the same thing, and it was a fraction of the cost. What are your thoughts regarding that medication?
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
How long has the hippo and wrassie been in QT? Are they being treated for anything? Why would you risk your display? A 10 gallon is fine if you are quarantining one small clown... Tangs cannot take small tanks. They are open water swimmers and need to swim...
Maracyn 2 works. You do have to have a fully cycled QT to use it though. I suggest that you get one going. Have you started beefing up his immune system?
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
+1 i had 3 tangs in my 55 qt .my purple had some bad fin rot along with ich.
i did the hypo and maracyn at the same time .they are all now back in the dt and the fin rot and ich are all gone .
no ich for over two weeks finnaly.
like sep said the qt needs to be cycled fully the maracyn will kill off some of the good bacteria.
 
adurost

adurost

Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/3118826
How long has the hippo and wrassie been in QT? Are they being treated for anything? Why would you risk your display? A 10 gallon is fine if you are quarantining one small clown... Tangs cannot take small tanks. They are open water swimmers and need to swim...
QT is a bare bottom 10G that I set up 3 weeks ago using water from the DT. pH was 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20 prior to putting the hippo and cleaner wrasse in the tank last Saturday. I expected a spike because of the increased biolode, but not the drop in pH. (I've requested assistance on that issue on a separate thread.) The wrasse is super active and eating ON reef flakes, ON Formula II pellets, and frozen brine shrimp; the tang hangs out in a piece of Nature's Image branch coral most of the time and is eating Formula II pellets. No visible signs of ich on either one that I can see at this time.
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/3118826
Maracyn 2 works. You do have to have a fully cycled QT to use it though. I suggest that you get one going. Have you started beefing up his immune system?
So, using Nitrofurazone is not recommended? I was not able to find any Rod's Food, and shipping it here to Hawaii is not an option. Saw something called "Emerald Entrée" by San Francisco Bay Brand, but wasn't sure it was the same as Rod's...
Emerald Entrée
Although formulated for marine fish, this diet has been shown to be an excellent diet for freshwater fish as well. Fish that rely on micro-algae and vegetable matter as a main nutrition source will benefit from Emerald Entrée's complete nutritional package. We added Mysis Shrimp as a natural attractant. Emerald Entrée is fortified with omega-3 fatty acids such as EPA and DHA, which are proven to be important for optimal growth and disease prevention in marine fish.
All Freshwater Algae Eaters, Goldfish, Barbs, Gouramis, Live Bearers, African Cichlids, Sharks, Silver Dollars and all Saltwater Angelfish, Butterfly fish, Damsels, Clownfish, Groupers, Eels, and Tangs
Artemia Franciscana, mysis, krill, plankton, spinach, romaine lettuce, red leaf lettuce, spirulina algae, menhaden oil, sodium alginate, Vitamin premix: wheat flour, Vitamin A acetate, cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfate complex, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, inositol, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, betaine, d-alpha mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E)
Crude Protein Min 6.20%
Crude Fat Min 1.20%
Crude Fiber Max 0.50%
Moisture Max 90.00%
Dry Protein % 62.00%
I purchased some Nori and hung a piece in the tank, but the yellow tang is not interested at all (still loves those ON Formula II pellets though!).
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Tangs have little tolerance for nitrate, and yours are quite high in your display. This likely is a contributing factor to the problem with the tang. The QT is not adequately cycled for the fish you have. Any ammonia and nitrite is bad.
Why are your nitrates so high in the display tank?
 
adurost

adurost

Member
This morning I did a 3G water change in the QT, and tested again 2 hrs later with the same results except that the pH was back up to 8.2. Since there are fish in the QT, I added some Amquel Plus to bring the Ammonia, Nitrites & Nitrates down.
Nitrates in the DT were consistently 20 until 8/15/09 (10 days after adding first fish) when they increased to 40. I know that is high for reef standards, but I had read it was still ok for a FOWLR. I have a HOB overflow and bioballs in the sump, and no protein skimmer yet. I'm about to do a 15G WC now.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
So, you are saying you have a reef? What filters are you using?
Take care with ammonia and higher pH. Best to keep pH at 8.0 with ammonia, since ammonia is more toxic with higher pH.
 
adurost

adurost

Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3119233
So, you are saying you have a reef? What filters are you using?
Take care with ammonia and higher pH. Best to keep pH at 8.0 with ammonia, since ammonia is more toxic with higher pH.
No, I have a 90G FOWLR w/approx 70 lbs of rock (35 LR + 35-40 BR). HOB overflow with a Wet/Dry filter in a 20G sump. Mag 9.5 return pump and 2 Koralia 3 powerheads.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
All of your filters are known to contribute to nitrates. Basically your system is not completing the nitrification cycle by denitrification of nitrates --insufficient export of nitrates.
I would suggest to plan out a more natural system, with lots of water movement throughout the system.
Slowly converting your system over to a more natural filtration system will eliminate this problem. Such as setting up a refuguium, maybe trying to convert your wet-dry into a mini DSB with some rubble rock, etc.
My feeling is that with the filters you are using now, you will always have the nitrate problem, always require a lot of water changes, etc., but still always battling high nitrates.
Do you have a skimmer?
 
adurost

adurost

Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3119388
All of your filters are known to contribute to nitrates. Basically your system is not completing the nitrification cycle by denitrification of nitrates --insufficient export of nitrates.
Slowly converting your system over to a more natural filtration system will eliminate this problem. Such as setting up a refuguium, maybe trying to convert your wet-dry into a mini DSB with some rubble rock, etc.
My feeling is that with the filters you are using now, you will always have the nitrate problem, always require a lot of water changes, etc., but still always battling high nitrates.
I realize it isn't the ideal system, but it's what I have to work with right now.
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3119388
I would suggest to plan out a more natural system, with lots of water movement throughout the system.
Ok, and until then I need to clean the bio-media and do more frequent water changes than someone with a refugium. I've got a combined flow of 2500gph right now.
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3119388
Do you have a skimmer?
Not yet.
Other than trying to reduce the nitrates through water changes and offer more nutritious food is there anything else I should do for the Yellow Tang in my 90G right now?
 
juniors04

juniors04

Member
My yellow Tang had the same reddning in the same area as yours. I fed him a lot of green sea weed with vitamins and it slowly went away.
 
adurost

adurost

Member
Originally Posted by juniors04
http:///forum/post/3123115
My yellow Tang had the same reddning in the same area as yours. I fed him a lot of green sea weed with vitamins and it slowly went away.
Thanks for the encouragement! I'm treating him with an antibiotic right now in addition to a similar diet change. I hope that I see the same improvement that you did. :)
 
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