J
jesse!
Guest
Has anyone ever used ZEOvit's RBCRS. Is it worth paying the extra $40 or is it just priced up since it's from Europe.
Thanks.
Thanks.
detane
Member
All my sources in SEAWORLD and EPCOT tell me, "SALT IS SALT, DONT GET JIPPED INTO BUYING EXPENSIVE SALTS". "JUST MAKE SURE THEY DONT HAVE PHOSPHATES IN THEM AND YOU SHOULD BE GOOD". They also told me to dose if I needed a boost on calcium or any other element. I pay $65 for a 200 gallon mix of salt from ocean pure.
J
jesse!
Guest
cool thanks.
stanlalee
Active Member
well salt definately isn't salt but no its not worth the mark up.
salt isn't salt. some have ca as low as 360ppm while others are close to 600ppm. same goes for mg, carbonates (alk), k, chloride content ect ect. Your job is to find the salt with the parameters that work best for you and how much it cost is no indication of whats best for you.
and just like impurities from different sources vary among raw materials for calcium chloride, mag sulfate ect its easy for salt manufacturers to use different quality (purity) trace elements to enhance their salts. the only problem is WE dont know who does and who doesn't so we assume reputable brands use high quality high purity sources for raw materials. supposedly evaporation method for base stock (red sea/D&D) is a cheaper less precise means of producing base stock(of course they advertise this as a benefit while all other salt manufacturers refer to it as cheap less refined method). Red sea and D&D are manufacturered in the same facility using the same base stock and I garauntee you the $20 difference in can no way be quantified in quality as the base stock is the same and ca,mg and alk are within normal advertised tolerances of each other. If D&D has enhanced K as advertised well I got a $7 bottle of K that will treat about 20 buckets of coral pro if it were low (which I dont know if it is or isnt).
salt isn't salt. some have ca as low as 360ppm while others are close to 600ppm. same goes for mg, carbonates (alk), k, chloride content ect ect. Your job is to find the salt with the parameters that work best for you and how much it cost is no indication of whats best for you.
and just like impurities from different sources vary among raw materials for calcium chloride, mag sulfate ect its easy for salt manufacturers to use different quality (purity) trace elements to enhance their salts. the only problem is WE dont know who does and who doesn't so we assume reputable brands use high quality high purity sources for raw materials. supposedly evaporation method for base stock (red sea/D&D) is a cheaper less precise means of producing base stock(of course they advertise this as a benefit while all other salt manufacturers refer to it as cheap less refined method). Red sea and D&D are manufacturered in the same facility using the same base stock and I garauntee you the $20 difference in can no way be quantified in quality as the base stock is the same and ca,mg and alk are within normal advertised tolerances of each other. If D&D has enhanced K as advertised well I got a $7 bottle of K that will treat about 20 buckets of coral pro if it were low (which I dont know if it is or isnt).
detane
Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/3142842
well salt definately isn't salt but no its not worth the mark up.
salt isn't salt. some have ca as low as 360ppm while others are close to 600ppm. same goes for mg, carbonates (alk), k, chloride content ect ect. Your job is to find the salt with the parameters that work best for you and how much it cost is no indication of whats best for you.
and just like impurities from different sources vary among raw materials for calcium chloride, mag sulfate ect its easy for salt manufacturers to use different quality (purity) trace elements to enhance their salts. the only problem is WE dont know who does and who doesn't so we assume reputable brands use high quality high purity sources for raw materials. supposedly evaporation method for base stock (red sea/D&D) is a cheaper less precise means of producing base stock(of course they advertise this as a benefit while all other salt manufacturers refer to it as cheap less refined method). Red sea and D&D are manufacturered in the same facility using the same base stock and I garauntee you the $20 difference in can no way be quantified in quality as the base stock is the same and ca,mg and alk are within normal advertised tolerances of each other. If D&D has enhanced K as advertised well I got a $7 bottle of K that will treat about 20 buckets of coral pro if it were low (which I dont know if it is or isnt).
Please Don't get offended. But I like to deal with facts, not assumtions. We are here to help each other with supporting facts. Im not saying I know everything, Ill be the first to tel you im always learning something new. But lets deal with facts and help each other one day have reef tanks like EPCOT or SEAWORLD.
So again, salt is salt. But they are given additives at the manufacturers plant.
Trust me when I tell you I have done my research. And the Scientist / Oceanographers who I have spoken to verify, have also done research, and that is why they work at such places as EPCOT and SEAWORLD.
And that is why my sources (advisors) told me to add trace elements if needed.
Salt is Salt = NaCl = SODIUM CHLORIDE
Na = Sodium
CL = Chloride which is an ion of Chlorine
Additives are additives.
http:///forum/post/3142842
well salt definately isn't salt but no its not worth the mark up.
salt isn't salt. some have ca as low as 360ppm while others are close to 600ppm. same goes for mg, carbonates (alk), k, chloride content ect ect. Your job is to find the salt with the parameters that work best for you and how much it cost is no indication of whats best for you.
and just like impurities from different sources vary among raw materials for calcium chloride, mag sulfate ect its easy for salt manufacturers to use different quality (purity) trace elements to enhance their salts. the only problem is WE dont know who does and who doesn't so we assume reputable brands use high quality high purity sources for raw materials. supposedly evaporation method for base stock (red sea/D&D) is a cheaper less precise means of producing base stock(of course they advertise this as a benefit while all other salt manufacturers refer to it as cheap less refined method). Red sea and D&D are manufacturered in the same facility using the same base stock and I garauntee you the $20 difference in can no way be quantified in quality as the base stock is the same and ca,mg and alk are within normal advertised tolerances of each other. If D&D has enhanced K as advertised well I got a $7 bottle of K that will treat about 20 buckets of coral pro if it were low (which I dont know if it is or isnt).
Please Don't get offended. But I like to deal with facts, not assumtions. We are here to help each other with supporting facts. Im not saying I know everything, Ill be the first to tel you im always learning something new. But lets deal with facts and help each other one day have reef tanks like EPCOT or SEAWORLD.
So again, salt is salt. But they are given additives at the manufacturers plant.
Trust me when I tell you I have done my research. And the Scientist / Oceanographers who I have spoken to verify, have also done research, and that is why they work at such places as EPCOT and SEAWORLD.
And that is why my sources (advisors) told me to add trace elements if needed.
Salt is Salt = NaCl = SODIUM CHLORIDE
Na = Sodium
CL = Chloride which is an ion of Chlorine
Additives are additives.
stanlalee
Active Member
Originally Posted by DETANE
http:///forum/post/3142862
Please Don't get offended. But I like to deal with facts, not assumtions. We are here to help each other with supporting facts. Im not saying I know everything, Ill be the first to tel you im always learning something new. But lets deal with facts and help each other one day have reef tanks like EPCOT or SEAWORLD.
So again, salt is salt. But they are given additives at the manufacturers plant.
Trust me when I tell you I have done my research. And the Scientist / Oceanographers who I have spoken to verify, have also done research, and that is why they work at such places as EPCOT and SEAWORLD.
And that is why my sources (advisors) told me to add trace elements if needed.
Salt is Salt = NaCl = SODIUM CHLORIDE
Na = Sodium
CL = Chloride which is an ion of Chlorine
Additives are additives.
so I guess we should all start using table salt. they are called salt "mix" for a reason and NaCl is the LEAST of what you should be concerned about. somebody from seaworld telling you salt is salt isn't exactly factual data I'd be willing to rely on.
Additives are definately NOT additives and greatly vary is impurities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMM3wo_Sqdk
all three in the link are sold as Caclium chloride. there is an obvious difference in impurities. these could be any number of elements which you will never know what they are and if they are harmful or not. how would you know from which example favors that sourced by salt brand a vs salt brand b? Just because CaCL is CaCl or MgSO4 is MgSO4 doesn't mean thats all you are getting when you buy an additive and these salt mixes rely on suppliers just like everybody else. they have a bottom line like everybody else and may be willing or not willing to settle for lower quality/higher impurities if its less costly (same goes for off the shelf dedicated "additives").
many of these salts below vary greatly in trace elements and what are you going to do about elements in these salt MIXES you DONT want, there aint exactly an additive you can add for deletion that wont effect any other elements. you can almost be certain they didn't add or ask for many of these elements as science has not even determined the need or effect of many of them nor are they equavalent to seawater so theres a probable chance many are just a result of impurities.
http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages....lysis_0208.pdf
salt may be salt but salt mixes are definately not salt mixes and since you went there additives arent additives either(as shown with factual demonstation of varying quality).
http:///forum/post/3142862
Please Don't get offended. But I like to deal with facts, not assumtions. We are here to help each other with supporting facts. Im not saying I know everything, Ill be the first to tel you im always learning something new. But lets deal with facts and help each other one day have reef tanks like EPCOT or SEAWORLD.
So again, salt is salt. But they are given additives at the manufacturers plant.
Trust me when I tell you I have done my research. And the Scientist / Oceanographers who I have spoken to verify, have also done research, and that is why they work at such places as EPCOT and SEAWORLD.
And that is why my sources (advisors) told me to add trace elements if needed.
Salt is Salt = NaCl = SODIUM CHLORIDE
Na = Sodium
CL = Chloride which is an ion of Chlorine
Additives are additives.
so I guess we should all start using table salt. they are called salt "mix" for a reason and NaCl is the LEAST of what you should be concerned about. somebody from seaworld telling you salt is salt isn't exactly factual data I'd be willing to rely on.
Additives are definately NOT additives and greatly vary is impurities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMM3wo_Sqdk
all three in the link are sold as Caclium chloride. there is an obvious difference in impurities. these could be any number of elements which you will never know what they are and if they are harmful or not. how would you know from which example favors that sourced by salt brand a vs salt brand b? Just because CaCL is CaCl or MgSO4 is MgSO4 doesn't mean thats all you are getting when you buy an additive and these salt mixes rely on suppliers just like everybody else. they have a bottom line like everybody else and may be willing or not willing to settle for lower quality/higher impurities if its less costly (same goes for off the shelf dedicated "additives").
many of these salts below vary greatly in trace elements and what are you going to do about elements in these salt MIXES you DONT want, there aint exactly an additive you can add for deletion that wont effect any other elements. you can almost be certain they didn't add or ask for many of these elements as science has not even determined the need or effect of many of them nor are they equavalent to seawater so theres a probable chance many are just a result of impurities.
http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages....lysis_0208.pdf
salt may be salt but salt mixes are definately not salt mixes and since you went there additives arent additives either(as shown with factual demonstation of varying quality).
aquaknight
Active Member
Originally Posted by DETANE
http:///forum/post/3142862
Please Don't get offended. But I like to deal with facts, not assumtions. We are here to help each other with supporting facts. Im not saying I know everything, Ill be the first to tel you im always learning something new. But lets deal with facts and help each other one day have reef tanks like EPCOT or SEAWORLD.
So again, salt is salt. But they are given additives at the manufacturers plant.
Trust me when I tell you I have done my research. And the Scientist / Oceanographers who I have spoken to verify, have also done research, and that is why they work at such places as EPCOT and SEAWORLD.
No offense, but your post is quite hypocritical. You say let's deal with the facts, then say "to trust me I've done my research" and 'that's what Epcot said.'
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/3142883
so I guess we should all start using table salt. they are called salt "mix" for a reason and NaCl is the LEAST of what you should be concerned about. somebody from seaworld telling you salt is salt isn't exactly factual data I'd be willing to rely on.
Additives are definately NOT additives and greatly vary is impurities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMM3wo_Sqdk
all three in the link are sold as Caclium chloride. there is an obvious difference in impurities. these could be any number of elements which you will never know what they are and if they are harmful or not. Just because CaCL is CaCl or MgSO4 is MgSO4 doesn't mean thats all you are getting when you buy an additive and these salt mixes rely on suppliers just like everybody else. they have a bottom line like everybody else and may be willing or not willing to settle for lower quality/higher impurities if its less costly.
many of these salts below vary greatly in trace elements and what are you going to do about elements in these salt MIXES you DONT want, there aint exactly an additive you can add for deletion. you can almost be certain they didn't ask for many of these elements as science has not even determined the need or effect of many of them nor are they equavalent to seawater so theres a probable chance many come from impurities.
http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages....lysis_0208.pdf
salt may be salt but salt mixes are definately not salt mixes and since you went there additives arent additives (as shown with factual demonstation of varying quality).
Most indubitably
The analysis link is a great read for anyone unfamiliar, as well.
http:///forum/post/3142862
Please Don't get offended. But I like to deal with facts, not assumtions. We are here to help each other with supporting facts. Im not saying I know everything, Ill be the first to tel you im always learning something new. But lets deal with facts and help each other one day have reef tanks like EPCOT or SEAWORLD.
So again, salt is salt. But they are given additives at the manufacturers plant.
Trust me when I tell you I have done my research. And the Scientist / Oceanographers who I have spoken to verify, have also done research, and that is why they work at such places as EPCOT and SEAWORLD.
No offense, but your post is quite hypocritical. You say let's deal with the facts, then say "to trust me I've done my research" and 'that's what Epcot said.'
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/3142883
so I guess we should all start using table salt. they are called salt "mix" for a reason and NaCl is the LEAST of what you should be concerned about. somebody from seaworld telling you salt is salt isn't exactly factual data I'd be willing to rely on.
Additives are definately NOT additives and greatly vary is impurities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMM3wo_Sqdk
all three in the link are sold as Caclium chloride. there is an obvious difference in impurities. these could be any number of elements which you will never know what they are and if they are harmful or not. Just because CaCL is CaCl or MgSO4 is MgSO4 doesn't mean thats all you are getting when you buy an additive and these salt mixes rely on suppliers just like everybody else. they have a bottom line like everybody else and may be willing or not willing to settle for lower quality/higher impurities if its less costly.
many of these salts below vary greatly in trace elements and what are you going to do about elements in these salt MIXES you DONT want, there aint exactly an additive you can add for deletion. you can almost be certain they didn't ask for many of these elements as science has not even determined the need or effect of many of them nor are they equavalent to seawater so theres a probable chance many come from impurities.
http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages....lysis_0208.pdf
salt may be salt but salt mixes are definately not salt mixes and since you went there additives arent additives (as shown with factual demonstation of varying quality).
Most indubitably
The analysis link is a great read for anyone unfamiliar, as well.
detane
Member
LOL. I get what your saying, but I guess you two still dont understand the basics of salt.
When you state "IMPURITIES", are you implying to other elements? if so, are those compounds such as salt is?
Example - GASOLINE:
Gasoline is refined from crude oil, and some contains lead and other unwanted ELEMENTS.
ADDITIVES such as "TECHRON", a detergent used to aid in cylinder deposit build up.
Gasoline is Gasoline, but additives can be used to to boost octane and improve efficiency.
I really dont think people take the time out to learn basic chemistry when they get into this hobby and that is why they tend to have a lot of problems that can easily be fixed by adding or removing basic elements from the Water Chemistry. Such as Phosphate removers, and other things hobbyist get swindled into buying because they lack the information to resolve these issues by simply boosting calcium to evaporate the phosphates.
RIDDLE ME THIS: If the phosphates came in the salt mix already as a COMPOUND, how is it a phosphate sponge can extract them?
Here is an easier one:
There is sand in a sand box and somebody dropped a bunch of dirt into the sand box. You are trying to get the purest sand out of the sand box. So you run the sand through water and some filter screens. SAND IS STILL SAND, it Doesn't mean the sand and dirt are a compound, and that is why you are still able to remove the DIRT (IMPURITY) from the sand base. End result is clean sand.
Watching youtube videos and not doing your own research is like people who read the Bible and do not research what they read. They go on faith, so they still think the world is 5000 years old and Dinosaurs which carbon date millions of years old, where put here to test their faith.
When you state "IMPURITIES", are you implying to other elements? if so, are those compounds such as salt is?
Example - GASOLINE:
Gasoline is refined from crude oil, and some contains lead and other unwanted ELEMENTS.
ADDITIVES such as "TECHRON", a detergent used to aid in cylinder deposit build up.
Gasoline is Gasoline, but additives can be used to to boost octane and improve efficiency.
I really dont think people take the time out to learn basic chemistry when they get into this hobby and that is why they tend to have a lot of problems that can easily be fixed by adding or removing basic elements from the Water Chemistry. Such as Phosphate removers, and other things hobbyist get swindled into buying because they lack the information to resolve these issues by simply boosting calcium to evaporate the phosphates.
RIDDLE ME THIS: If the phosphates came in the salt mix already as a COMPOUND, how is it a phosphate sponge can extract them?
Here is an easier one:
There is sand in a sand box and somebody dropped a bunch of dirt into the sand box. You are trying to get the purest sand out of the sand box. So you run the sand through water and some filter screens. SAND IS STILL SAND, it Doesn't mean the sand and dirt are a compound, and that is why you are still able to remove the DIRT (IMPURITY) from the sand base. End result is clean sand.
Watching youtube videos and not doing your own research is like people who read the Bible and do not research what they read. They go on faith, so they still think the world is 5000 years old and Dinosaurs which carbon date millions of years old, where put here to test their faith.
detane
Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/3142883
so I guess we should all start using table salt. they are called salt "mix" for a reason and NaCl is the LEAST of what you should be concerned about. somebody from seaworld telling you salt is salt isn't exactly factual data I'd be willing to rely on.
Additives are definately NOT additives and greatly vary is impurities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMM3wo_Sqdk
all three in the link are sold as Caclium chloride. there is an obvious difference in impurities. these could be any number of elements which you will never know what they are and if they are harmful or not. how would you know from which example favors that sourced by salt brand a vs salt brand b? Just because CaCL is CaCl or MgSO4 is MgSO4 doesn't mean thats all you are getting when you buy an additive and these salt mixes rely on suppliers just like everybody else. they have a bottom line like everybody else and may be willing or not willing to settle for lower quality/higher impurities if its less costly (same goes for off the shelf dedicated "additives").
many of these salts below vary greatly in trace elements and what are you going to do about elements in these salt MIXES you DONT want, there aint exactly an additive you can add for deletion that wont effect any other elements. you can almost be certain they didn't add or ask for many of these elements as science has not even determined the need or effect of many of them nor are they equavalent to seawater so theres a probable chance many are just a result of impurities.
http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages....lysis_0208.pdf
salt may be salt but salt mixes are definately not salt mixes and since you went there additives arent additives either(as shown with factual demonstation of varying quality).
I read through and saw the video you referred to. The data showed still backs up my previous statement. I guess you didn't take the time to read the data for yourself. But it clearly sates on the very first PAGE. "ELEMENTS/ COMPOUNDS". So salt is salt, but I believe what you are trying to covey is that there are difference in terms of which Companies refine their product better. And yes I agree with you on that.
http:///forum/post/3142883
so I guess we should all start using table salt. they are called salt "mix" for a reason and NaCl is the LEAST of what you should be concerned about. somebody from seaworld telling you salt is salt isn't exactly factual data I'd be willing to rely on.
Additives are definately NOT additives and greatly vary is impurities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMM3wo_Sqdk
all three in the link are sold as Caclium chloride. there is an obvious difference in impurities. these could be any number of elements which you will never know what they are and if they are harmful or not. how would you know from which example favors that sourced by salt brand a vs salt brand b? Just because CaCL is CaCl or MgSO4 is MgSO4 doesn't mean thats all you are getting when you buy an additive and these salt mixes rely on suppliers just like everybody else. they have a bottom line like everybody else and may be willing or not willing to settle for lower quality/higher impurities if its less costly (same goes for off the shelf dedicated "additives").
many of these salts below vary greatly in trace elements and what are you going to do about elements in these salt MIXES you DONT want, there aint exactly an additive you can add for deletion that wont effect any other elements. you can almost be certain they didn't add or ask for many of these elements as science has not even determined the need or effect of many of them nor are they equavalent to seawater so theres a probable chance many are just a result of impurities.
http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages....lysis_0208.pdf
salt may be salt but salt mixes are definately not salt mixes and since you went there additives arent additives either(as shown with factual demonstation of varying quality).
I read through and saw the video you referred to. The data showed still backs up my previous statement. I guess you didn't take the time to read the data for yourself. But it clearly sates on the very first PAGE. "ELEMENTS/ COMPOUNDS". So salt is salt, but I believe what you are trying to covey is that there are difference in terms of which Companies refine their product better. And yes I agree with you on that.
detane
Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3142886
No offense, but your post is quite hypocritical. You say let's deal with the facts, then say "to trust me I've done my research" and 'that's what Epcot said.'
Most indubitably
The analysis link is a great read for anyone unfamiliar, as well.
FACTS: I clearly showed you the elemental compound of what salt is, so you could go do your own research and see the information I gave you is correct.
This information can be found on any Periodic table of ELEMENTS. FACTS are FACTS. But there is that occasional Leap of faith people take and choose to believe what ever they want.
http:///forum/post/3142886
No offense, but your post is quite hypocritical. You say let's deal with the facts, then say "to trust me I've done my research" and 'that's what Epcot said.'
Most indubitably
The analysis link is a great read for anyone unfamiliar, as well.
FACTS: I clearly showed you the elemental compound of what salt is, so you could go do your own research and see the information I gave you is correct.
This information can be found on any Periodic table of ELEMENTS. FACTS are FACTS. But there is that occasional Leap of faith people take and choose to believe what ever they want.
stanlalee
Active Member
your response has lost focus on what the original poster has asked and you seem hell bent on making a point that salt is salt (as if thats not obvious NaCl is NaCl). Reefers Best (like every other aquarium salt "MIX") is more than salt, its salt AND other elements combined (hence "MIX"). you arent relying on their competency to deliver NaCL but to mix elements with it in proper proportions. So salt is salt and thats irrelevant to aquarium salt mixes or if Reefers Best is worth the extra money. Perhaps you should join a table salt forum where you can remain one dimensional with NaCl proving a factual but pointless point and overlook the obvious relavent points that have been clearly made and demonstrated.