sepulatian
Moderator
Another clown just died.
The first one did as well? I missed that. I am sorry.
The first one did as well? I missed that. I am sorry.
An Easy and Cheap Way to Cure Ich (or ick) - My Adventure with 'Ich-Attack' by Kordon
- Thread starter ntracy
- Start date
ntracy
Member
Well she had brooklynella. I got her from the fish store I will never support again... Tat's. They told me to move my inverts and corals and use copper... "yeah the copper will all go away..." ... yeah right. Their corals are good quality, but very expensive. I also know they jack up the price... $30 for a 20lb bag of live sand. I can get the same bag for $20 online, $22.99 at my preferred LFS (Aquatic Village). $20 for a small magnetic glass cleaner from Tat's, $15 from Aquatic. $65 for a 3-headed frogspawn, $40 for the same at Aquatic. Also, Aquatic's owner hand picks all of their corals and fish from a local wholesaler in LA.
I purchased 4 clowns from that crap LFS, so far 3 have died, and one is on his way to the pearly gates. I don't think I'll go there anymore.
I purchased 4 clowns from that crap LFS, so far 3 have died, and one is on his way to the pearly gates. I don't think I'll go there anymore.
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2656219
Well she had brooklynella. I got her from the fish store I will never support again... Tat's. They told me to move my inverts and corals and use copper... "yeah the copper will all go away..." ... yeah right. Their corals are good quality, but very expensive. I also know they jack up the price... $30 for a 20lb bag of live sand. I can get the same bag for $20 online, $22.99 at my preferred LFS (Aquatic Village). $20 for a small magnetic glass cleaner from Tat's, $15 from Aquatic. $65 for a 3-headed frogspawn, $40 for the same at Aquatic. Also, Aquatic's owner hand picks all of their corals and fish from a local wholesaler in LA.
I purchased 4 clowns from that crap LFS, so far 3 have died, and one is on his way to the pearly gates. I don't think I'll go there anymore.
Disease isn't the stores fault though. Fish come in with it. There isn't much that they can do about that. They don't keep the fish long. It is important that you watch for the best fish though. Don't buy fish that don't look well. Watch them eat at the LFS. Fish from the best LFS in the world still have to be quarantined. Disease happens. You have to know how to spot and treat diseases that come up. Brooklynella kills fast, but if you have formalin on hand then you can treat them fast. If you buy clowns then buy, at least a small bottle, of formalin.
http:///forum/post/2656219
Well she had brooklynella. I got her from the fish store I will never support again... Tat's. They told me to move my inverts and corals and use copper... "yeah the copper will all go away..." ... yeah right. Their corals are good quality, but very expensive. I also know they jack up the price... $30 for a 20lb bag of live sand. I can get the same bag for $20 online, $22.99 at my preferred LFS (Aquatic Village). $20 for a small magnetic glass cleaner from Tat's, $15 from Aquatic. $65 for a 3-headed frogspawn, $40 for the same at Aquatic. Also, Aquatic's owner hand picks all of their corals and fish from a local wholesaler in LA.
I purchased 4 clowns from that crap LFS, so far 3 have died, and one is on his way to the pearly gates. I don't think I'll go there anymore.
Disease isn't the stores fault though. Fish come in with it. There isn't much that they can do about that. They don't keep the fish long. It is important that you watch for the best fish though. Don't buy fish that don't look well. Watch them eat at the LFS. Fish from the best LFS in the world still have to be quarantined. Disease happens. You have to know how to spot and treat diseases that come up. Brooklynella kills fast, but if you have formalin on hand then you can treat them fast. If you buy clowns then buy, at least a small bottle, of formalin.
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2656225
It's an aquarium sponge... actually it's a cut-off piece of filter material that I buy in bulk. It's got white on one side and blue on the other and it like an inch thick.
If it is for aquariums then you are good to go
http:///forum/post/2656225
It's an aquarium sponge... actually it's a cut-off piece of filter material that I buy in bulk. It's got white on one side and blue on the other and it like an inch thick.
If it is for aquariums then you are good to go
kellenr
Member
WOW. Sorry to hear of this whole mess, I just read the entire thread. This is a bad experience to start out with, I promise it won't be this bad later in the hobby. Sounds like you're making the best of the situation. I was kind of confused in a couple of the previous posts (wasn't really sure what you were doing with all the tanks etc.) but sounds pretty much like you're on track. Make sure you read up about hyposalinity (I'm sure there's tons of threads on here about it) and just never treat your display tank. Your fish should be ok in the 20g for 6weeks, it's the best you can do. Just really monitor your levels (NH3, NO2 & NO3), you may need to do water changes more frequently than usual. You should be ok though. Good luck and hang in there!
ntracy
Member
Originally Posted by KellenR
http:///forum/post/2656233
WOW. Sorry to hear of this whole mess, I just read the entire thread. This is a bad experience to start out with, I promise it won't be this bad later in the hobby. Sounds like you're making the best of the situation. I was kind of confused in a couple of the previous posts (wasn't really sure what you were doing with all the tanks etc.) but sounds pretty much like you're on track. Make sure you read up about hyposalinity (I'm sure there's tons of threads on here about it) and just never treat your display tank. Your fish should be ok in the 20g for 6weeks, it's the best you can do. Just really monitor your levels (NH3, NO2 & NO3), you may need to do water changes more frequently than usual. You should be ok though. Good luck and hang in there!
Thanks dude! I've been given so many opinions over the last few days about this... a lot of people say that ich is always in the tank, and always in the fish, but I've also heard that it's a disease that can be cured and can be completely removed from your tank. I believe the latter, especially because of wikipedia
I like the idea of QT-ing all the fish I add before they go into the DT, just because it's a way to ensure cleanliness in the DT. It's a bit over-the-top, but will save me money in the future. You can't give drivers licenses to everyone unless they prove they can do it... just like you can't throw fish into a tank until you know they're clean.
Man, I've still blown so much money on this hobby. I've never been so poor. I hope to God it's not going to be like this anymore. I've thought about dropping the hobby just because of this experience... I can't handle this kind of situation on a regular basis.
http:///forum/post/2656233
WOW. Sorry to hear of this whole mess, I just read the entire thread. This is a bad experience to start out with, I promise it won't be this bad later in the hobby. Sounds like you're making the best of the situation. I was kind of confused in a couple of the previous posts (wasn't really sure what you were doing with all the tanks etc.) but sounds pretty much like you're on track. Make sure you read up about hyposalinity (I'm sure there's tons of threads on here about it) and just never treat your display tank. Your fish should be ok in the 20g for 6weeks, it's the best you can do. Just really monitor your levels (NH3, NO2 & NO3), you may need to do water changes more frequently than usual. You should be ok though. Good luck and hang in there!
Thanks dude! I've been given so many opinions over the last few days about this... a lot of people say that ich is always in the tank, and always in the fish, but I've also heard that it's a disease that can be cured and can be completely removed from your tank. I believe the latter, especially because of wikipedia
I like the idea of QT-ing all the fish I add before they go into the DT, just because it's a way to ensure cleanliness in the DT. It's a bit over-the-top, but will save me money in the future. You can't give drivers licenses to everyone unless they prove they can do it... just like you can't throw fish into a tank until you know they're clean.
Man, I've still blown so much money on this hobby. I've never been so poor. I hope to God it's not going to be like this anymore. I've thought about dropping the hobby just because of this experience... I can't handle this kind of situation on a regular basis.
jints
Member
Alot of people drop the hobby because they make mistakes and can be stubborn because of lack of patience. In the end that lack of patience costs them money and they get frustrated and next thing you know they are out of the hobby. A little patience goes a long way. Once your fish leave the QT and everything is good....then you can sit back and enjoy. Im glad your taking the correct approach. You will soon be rewarded.
ntracy
Member
Another clown died today. That makes 4 out of 5. The last one is black - he rocks... he's doing good.
I moved everyone over to the QT and they're all doing good. Salinity is at 1.019. pH is at 8.3. Temp 84
The ammonia is rising, but I have amquel so I'll be good. Not to mention the daily water changes. I never want to see ich again. This totally sucks. I'm beginning to feel like I'm going over the top just for fish.
But every time I flush a dead clown down the toilet, it feels like a tragedy. such a beautiful animal shouldn't be at the bottom of a toilet bowl.
I moved everyone over to the QT and they're all doing good. Salinity is at 1.019. pH is at 8.3. Temp 84
The ammonia is rising, but I have amquel so I'll be good. Not to mention the daily water changes. I never want to see ich again. This totally sucks. I'm beginning to feel like I'm going over the top just for fish.
But every time I flush a dead clown down the toilet, it feels like a tragedy. such a beautiful animal shouldn't be at the bottom of a toilet bowl.
spiderwoman
Active Member
How quickly did you drop the salinity? You should do it SLOWLY in a time period of 48 hours. From what I can see you did it in under 12 hours?
ntracy
Member
Well the tolerance is 1.020 to 1.024... the water in my tank was a bit low already... about 1.021... and I've been slowly adding RO to the QT. So in about 10 hours I've gone from 1.021 to 1.019... about .002 difference. I think I'm going slow enough, especially if I need to get it to 1.009... I have another .010 to go.
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2656245
Thanks dude! I've been given so many opinions over the last few days about this... a lot of people say that ich is always in the tank, and always in the fish, but I've also heard that it's a disease that can be cured and can be completely removed from your tank. I believe the latter, especially because of wikipedia
.
First ntracy, I gotta give you kudos on your research attempt and your patience with this board. I have been a long time member and I understand what they are saying and why they are saying it, but I can also see how you as a newbie can feel overwhelmed and intimidated. Everybody who has given you advice thus far, is doing so with your best interest in mind, and I applaud that you keep coming back.
We all made mistakes, and we all fell for some gimmick when we started, and we are trying to help you not fall to far from the same ones, and pretty soon, your gonna be saying exactly what your reading here.
OK, I have done much much research on ick as my fish are currently, right this moment, in hypo.
What I know (without a doubt) is..
Ick has 4 stages of life.
Only 2 of those 4 are unprotected and vulnerable for eradication.
Ick is not "in every system" nor does it have to be.
It is a parasite, just like any other and people have gone through great lengths to find the easiest ways to keep them out of our tanks.
4 stages, in a nutshell (to put a picture with what your reading)
We'll start backwards...
Parasite on fish. "Protected" in a cyst covering. That covering is what you see when you think you are looking at ick itself.
It eats till it's full then free swims in the tank (at which point it's vulnerable)
Swims til it finds a hard surface to multiply (again protected with it's cyst covering)
Thousands of tiny baby parasites emerge from that protective cyst to find a host (again, unprotected)
You can search the timelines of each cycle if you want, but if a parasite drops off of your fish at 2 PM on sunday(and you remove all your fish at 3 pm), it will go through it's phases and live for up to 6 weeks without a fish live off of.
So a tank with no fish for 6 weeks, is a tank with no ick. (most of the time
)
And doing hypo will not kill them in 2 of those stages, which is why we do hypo for several weeks, to get them all.
Now, that being said, it is crucial that you learn how to properly bring down the salinity, but even MORE importantly is to know how SLOW you gotta bring it back up. Raising the salinity is "routinely" how the hobbiest kills their fish.
I may go extra slow, but I raise mine .001 every 12 hours.
OK, I'm done.
http:///forum/post/2656245
Thanks dude! I've been given so many opinions over the last few days about this... a lot of people say that ich is always in the tank, and always in the fish, but I've also heard that it's a disease that can be cured and can be completely removed from your tank. I believe the latter, especially because of wikipedia
.
First ntracy, I gotta give you kudos on your research attempt and your patience with this board. I have been a long time member and I understand what they are saying and why they are saying it, but I can also see how you as a newbie can feel overwhelmed and intimidated. Everybody who has given you advice thus far, is doing so with your best interest in mind, and I applaud that you keep coming back.
We all made mistakes, and we all fell for some gimmick when we started, and we are trying to help you not fall to far from the same ones, and pretty soon, your gonna be saying exactly what your reading here.
OK, I have done much much research on ick as my fish are currently, right this moment, in hypo.
What I know (without a doubt) is..
Ick has 4 stages of life.
Only 2 of those 4 are unprotected and vulnerable for eradication.
Ick is not "in every system" nor does it have to be.
It is a parasite, just like any other and people have gone through great lengths to find the easiest ways to keep them out of our tanks.
4 stages, in a nutshell (to put a picture with what your reading)
We'll start backwards...
Parasite on fish. "Protected" in a cyst covering. That covering is what you see when you think you are looking at ick itself.
It eats till it's full then free swims in the tank (at which point it's vulnerable)
Swims til it finds a hard surface to multiply (again protected with it's cyst covering)
Thousands of tiny baby parasites emerge from that protective cyst to find a host (again, unprotected)
You can search the timelines of each cycle if you want, but if a parasite drops off of your fish at 2 PM on sunday(and you remove all your fish at 3 pm), it will go through it's phases and live for up to 6 weeks without a fish live off of.
So a tank with no fish for 6 weeks, is a tank with no ick. (most of the time
And doing hypo will not kill them in 2 of those stages, which is why we do hypo for several weeks, to get them all.
Now, that being said, it is crucial that you learn how to properly bring down the salinity, but even MORE importantly is to know how SLOW you gotta bring it back up. Raising the salinity is "routinely" how the hobbiest kills their fish.
I may go extra slow, but I raise mine .001 every 12 hours.
OK, I'm done.
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2657227
Well the tolerance is 1.020 to 1.024... .
What exactly does that statement mean? And how are you measuring your specific gravity again?
http:///forum/post/2657227
Well the tolerance is 1.020 to 1.024... .
What exactly does that statement mean? And how are you measuring your specific gravity again?
ntracy
Member
I've got a hydrometer (I know, I need a refractometer... it's the next thing on my list) and it has a green line from 1.020 to 1.024. I've also read that the salinity is most comfortable for the livestock when it's within those parameters. The fish can handle lower salinity but it will kill off the micro-organisms in the tank... and it doesn't discriminate... it will kill the ich as well as everything else in live sand, live rock, and corals (from what I understand).
So when I say "tolerance" i mean that's what is best for everyone in your DT, and it's what my water salinity was at in my QT.
So when I say "tolerance" i mean that's what is best for everyone in your DT, and it's what my water salinity was at in my QT.
spiderwoman
Active Member
If you can, please get a refractometer tomorrow. Doing hypo with a hydrometer can be very dangerous. If you don't get the salinity low enough, ick continues to live, if you go too long, your fish could be dead.
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2657236
First ntracy, I gotta give you kudos on your research attempt and your patience with this board. I have been a long time member and I understand what they are saying and why they are saying it, but I can also see how you as a newbie can feel overwhelmed and intimidated. Everybody who has given you advice thus far, is doing so with your best interest in mind, and I applaud that you keep coming back.
We all made mistakes, and we all fell for some gimmick when we started, and we are trying to help you not fall to far from the same ones, and pretty soon, your gonna be saying exactly what your reading here.
OK, I have done much much research on ick as my fish are currently, right this moment, in hypo.
What I know (without a doubt) is..
Ick has 4 stages of life.
Only 2 of those 4 are unprotected and vulnerable for eradication.
Ick is not "in every system" nor does it have to be.
It is a parasite, just like any other and people have gone through great lengths to find the easiest ways to keep them out of our tanks.
4 stages, in a nutshell (to put a picture with what your reading)
We'll start backwards...
Parasite on fish. "Protected" in a cyst covering. That covering is what you see when you think you are looking at ick itself.
It eats till it's full then free swims in the tank (at which point it's vulnerable)
Swims til it finds a hard surface to multiply (again protected with it's cyst covering)
Thousands of tiny baby parasites emerge from that protective cyst to find a host (again, unprotected)
You can search the timelines of each cycle if you want, but if a parasite drops off of your fish at 2 PM on sunday(and you remove all your fish at 3 pm), it will go through it's phases and live for up to 6 weeks without a fish live off of.
So a tank with no fish for 6 weeks, is a tank with no ick. (most of the time
)
And doing hypo will not kill them in 2 of those stages, which is why we do hypo for several weeks, to get them all.
Now, that being said, it is crucial that you learn how to properly bring down the salinity, but even MORE importantly is to know how SLOW you gotta bring it back up. Raising the salinity is "routinely" how the hobbiest kills their fish.
I may go extra slow, but I raise mine .001 every 12 hours.
OK, I'm done.
Tizz....You are getting right up their with SCSI in terms of the length and details within your posts!
http:///forum/post/2657236
First ntracy, I gotta give you kudos on your research attempt and your patience with this board. I have been a long time member and I understand what they are saying and why they are saying it, but I can also see how you as a newbie can feel overwhelmed and intimidated. Everybody who has given you advice thus far, is doing so with your best interest in mind, and I applaud that you keep coming back.
We all made mistakes, and we all fell for some gimmick when we started, and we are trying to help you not fall to far from the same ones, and pretty soon, your gonna be saying exactly what your reading here.
OK, I have done much much research on ick as my fish are currently, right this moment, in hypo.
What I know (without a doubt) is..
Ick has 4 stages of life.
Only 2 of those 4 are unprotected and vulnerable for eradication.
Ick is not "in every system" nor does it have to be.
It is a parasite, just like any other and people have gone through great lengths to find the easiest ways to keep them out of our tanks.
4 stages, in a nutshell (to put a picture with what your reading)
We'll start backwards...
Parasite on fish. "Protected" in a cyst covering. That covering is what you see when you think you are looking at ick itself.
It eats till it's full then free swims in the tank (at which point it's vulnerable)
Swims til it finds a hard surface to multiply (again protected with it's cyst covering)
Thousands of tiny baby parasites emerge from that protective cyst to find a host (again, unprotected)
You can search the timelines of each cycle if you want, but if a parasite drops off of your fish at 2 PM on sunday(and you remove all your fish at 3 pm), it will go through it's phases and live for up to 6 weeks without a fish live off of.
So a tank with no fish for 6 weeks, is a tank with no ick. (most of the time
And doing hypo will not kill them in 2 of those stages, which is why we do hypo for several weeks, to get them all.
Now, that being said, it is crucial that you learn how to properly bring down the salinity, but even MORE importantly is to know how SLOW you gotta bring it back up. Raising the salinity is "routinely" how the hobbiest kills their fish.
I may go extra slow, but I raise mine .001 every 12 hours.
OK, I'm done.
Tizz....You are getting right up their with SCSI in terms of the length and details within your posts!
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2657287
I've got a hydrometer (I know, I need a refractometer... it's the next thing on my list) and it has a green line from 1.020 to 1.024. I've also read that the salinity is most comfortable for the livestock when it's within those parameters. The fish can handle lower salinity but it will kill off the micro-organisms in the tank... and it doesn't discriminate... it will kill the ich as well as everything else in live sand, live rock, and corals (from what I understand).
So when I say "tolerance" i mean that's what is best for everyone in your DT, and it's what my water salinity was at in my QT.
I don't know where you keep reading but most of that info is, well, old.
Inverts can live, although not for long in a tank w/ a salinity as low as 1.016!
Although they do best at 1.025.
Those parameters you wrote are best for fish with no inverts in the tank.
Ick can thrive in as little as 1.012! The listed 1.009 is that way for a reason.
Do not go any lower without a refactometer! Or that floating one.
There is one thing you need to be aware of in this hobby...
It is just that. It is a hobby. And like any hobby it's gonna cost you some big bucks over time, even if you do everything correctly.
You will spend more time and money than you realize. But it will nickle and dime you after the first major purchases are made.
When you opened this thread you mentioned that you couldn't afford to have a QT and I understand that, we've all been there, but the reality is, if your gonna take on sole responsibility of your fish pets, you need to be prepared to do it correctly.
"I can't afford this or that" is fine, but if that's the case, then this is the wrong hobby.
I hope you aren't like that. The refactometer will be another chunk outa your wallet, as was the QT set up, but take it with a grain of salt and realize you are that much closer to being a true responsible hobbiest.
http:///forum/post/2657287
I've got a hydrometer (I know, I need a refractometer... it's the next thing on my list) and it has a green line from 1.020 to 1.024. I've also read that the salinity is most comfortable for the livestock when it's within those parameters. The fish can handle lower salinity but it will kill off the micro-organisms in the tank... and it doesn't discriminate... it will kill the ich as well as everything else in live sand, live rock, and corals (from what I understand).
So when I say "tolerance" i mean that's what is best for everyone in your DT, and it's what my water salinity was at in my QT.
I don't know where you keep reading but most of that info is, well, old.
Inverts can live, although not for long in a tank w/ a salinity as low as 1.016!
Although they do best at 1.025.
Those parameters you wrote are best for fish with no inverts in the tank.
Ick can thrive in as little as 1.012! The listed 1.009 is that way for a reason.
Do not go any lower without a refactometer! Or that floating one.
There is one thing you need to be aware of in this hobby...
It is just that. It is a hobby. And like any hobby it's gonna cost you some big bucks over time, even if you do everything correctly.
You will spend more time and money than you realize. But it will nickle and dime you after the first major purchases are made.
When you opened this thread you mentioned that you couldn't afford to have a QT and I understand that, we've all been there, but the reality is, if your gonna take on sole responsibility of your fish pets, you need to be prepared to do it correctly.
"I can't afford this or that" is fine, but if that's the case, then this is the wrong hobby.
I hope you aren't like that. The refactometer will be another chunk outa your wallet, as was the QT set up, but take it with a grain of salt and realize you are that much closer to being a true responsible hobbiest.
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2657324
Tizz....You are getting right up their with SCSI in terms of the length and details within your posts!
Not often.
Only when I see true potential.
Had this person made snide remarks or defended his incorrect actions based on the advise of his LFS, I woulda never even posted.
Some new hobbiests, I like
(And for the record, I know I'm spelling hobbiests wrong, but hobbyists just don't look right.
)
http:///forum/post/2657324
Tizz....You are getting right up their with SCSI in terms of the length and details within your posts!
Not often.
Only when I see true potential.
Had this person made snide remarks or defended his incorrect actions based on the advise of his LFS, I woulda never even posted.
Some new hobbiests, I like
(And for the record, I know I'm spelling hobbiests wrong, but hobbyists just don't look right.
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2657327
(And for the record, I know I'm spelling hobbiests wrong, but hobbyists just don't look right.
)
I am a 'math/science' guy so your spelling looks good either way to me.
What are you, Spider, Beth and I doing posting at 10pm on a Saturday night?
We need to 'get a life'
http:///forum/post/2657327
(And for the record, I know I'm spelling hobbiests wrong, but hobbyists just don't look right.
I am a 'math/science' guy so your spelling looks good either way to me.
What are you, Spider, Beth and I doing posting at 10pm on a Saturday night?
We need to 'get a life'
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2657332
I am a 'math/science' guy so your spelling looks good either way to me.
What are you, Spider, Beth and I doing posting at 10pm on a Saturday night?
We need to 'get a life'
I got return of the Jedi on TV in front of me, so it's either that or this board.
I think I've seen these prequals 100 times, and I STILL haven't seen it all the way through, lol
http:///forum/post/2657332
I am a 'math/science' guy so your spelling looks good either way to me.
What are you, Spider, Beth and I doing posting at 10pm on a Saturday night?
We need to 'get a life'
I got return of the Jedi on TV in front of me, so it's either that or this board.
I think I've seen these prequals 100 times, and I STILL haven't seen it all the way through, lol