Cloudy eye question

[azeritis]

Are fishes cloudy eyes always associated with ich or other infections? Is it something that may occur by other factors?
My picasso has cloudy eyes, I have him for a month or so. My lfs owner gave me a medication (I forget the name) which I am supposed to mix in freshwater and treat the fish for few minutes daily until its gone...
I have done it twice but I am somewhat worried that I stress the fish too much doing it. In addition, it is extremely difficult for me to actually catch him which stresses all the fish in the tank (and myself)
I do have a qt but I am using it for a flagfin angel that I bought 7 days ago (originally planning to keep him there for 4 weeks)
The rest of the fish do not have cloudy eyes and none of the fish show any signs of ich.
Should I keep performing the dips? Can I wait a couple of weeks for the qt period to finish and move the picasso in the q tank to treat him there?

 

[azeritis]

The pictures are not that clear but some of you that are really familiar with cloudy eyes can make something out of them.
The fish act really healthy as far as swiming, eating, behaving, etc...
I cange approximately 40 - 50 liters weekly, add supplements (calcium,trace elements, vitamins) with each water change
feed twice a day mainly marine A by Hikari and premium plankton by Wardley, garlic soaked
ammonia 0
nitites .25
nitrates 10-20
sg 1.023
temp 26-27
pH 8.0-8.5 (my test kit is not that accurate - Sera)
Any help will be very much appreciated

 

[azeritis]

I do not know if it is helpful but the mediacation is dark blue, and I am supposed to mix 1.5 ml in 3.5 liters (the mix produces a lighter blue colour)

 

[beth]

Forget that medication. It is probably melichite green or something. You're right, what you are doing with the unknown medication and chasing the fish around the display tank every day is not beneficial.
Why is your nitrite .25?? Here is a real problem. I would suggest that you do a major water change in that tank.
That pH range you gave is not helpful. 8.5 would be too high.
I suggest you get good test kits. I use selifert myself, and I'm satisfied with them.
If those temp readings are Celsius, I don't know the conversion. An F temp of 78-82 is good.
Also, why don't you know the name of the med? It should be on the bottle.
Fish get cloudy eyes because they are stressed for some reason. The nitrites in your tank would be a reason for causing this problem. Get the environment in your tank under control, and the cloudy eye problem could resolve itself.
Try adding more variety to fish diet. Persoanlly I think that some fresh seafoods, particularly for aggressive fish, is a real plus for keeping fish healthy.
What vitimins are you adding to your tank water? I would not add any vitimins to water regularly. They could stimulate unwanted algae blooms. Pure clean water is best.

 

[azeritis]

Temp is celcius and the equivalent is 78-80
Nitrites are high probably because I added a few pieces of LR a few weeks ago together with the triggers, which did cause a mini cycle.
I would really love to get these selifert test kits, but I cannot find them here. I have ordered a better ph kit however than the one I am currently using.
As far as the medication name I do not have the original bottle, I have a mix that the lfs owner gave me. I can find the name and post it in a day or so (although if I understood corectly is something like a betadine disinfectant for fish - not really a medication)
The vitamins I use are called Fishtamin and made by Sera
Now when you say major water change how much do you actually mean?
As far as fresh seafoods are concerned, do you actually mean getting octapus, squid, calamari, shrimp, chop them in small pieces and feed them?

 

[mdhyde]

yep yep. When cloudy eyes are present, nitrates are almost always the culprit. Same for pop eye. Do water changes and get that water quality up!
I NEVER medicate my tanks. Did you know that ich is ALWAYS present in saltwater??? (or fresh). It is only when a fish is stressed or something is wrong, is when they become suceptable to a wide array of bad things in the water just waiting to infect them.
It is the law of the (underwater) jungle. If your fish get sick, something is off in your tank.

 

[azeritis]

Well, i actually read it a while ago in the consientious marine aquarist. In fact it is not only ick, it is several things, and stress weakens the immune system, etc... Just like humans...

 

[beth]

Originally posted by Terry B
BTW, where do people get this crap about ich always being present in marine aquariums?
Terry B
My sentiments exactly. Seems like this hobby myth is circulating around recently.
If your fish are appropriately QTed and treated prior to tank entry, and if you exercise some caution with the introduction of rocks, etc., ich will not just suddenly materialize in your aquaria.
Now, ich is in marine water in the ocean, obviously. Perhaps in reading, some folks have extrapolated this to mean the tank, but that is not the case.
When I first started this hobby, way back when, I remember hearing that ich came in the water...yikes! Thank god that isn't true else we'd be covered in spots!
Terry is right about fish eyes, and that is not just triggers either. I've seen this on a few fish. It usaully changes with eye movement.
I'd discontinue treatment. Large water change means about 30%, and continue doing the changes until your trites are back to zero.
Octapus, squid, calamari, shrimp, chop them in small pieces and feed them? Yep, that's exactly what I feed my fish every single day.

 

[azeritis]

The consientious marine aquarist, page 156 paragraph 2
"Most aquariums have a constant supply of funguses, bacteria, and protozoans that have little or no effect on live stock. Sufficiently stressed, however, livestock may fall prey to otherwise nonpathogenic organisms."
"Cryptocaryon irritants is the causative agent for marine ich or white spot disease. It is a ciliated protozoannamed for its many small cilia that are utilized for locomotion.' p.161
Chapter 9 talks about diseases and it can be infered that ich may be present in a tank without us knowing it if the stress factors do not kick in.
I believe that since this is the book that is most cited in forums, the author's opinion should noy be considered as crap. Unless I do not understand correctly.

 

[azeritis]

As far as my trigger's cloudy eyes is concerned, the truth is that when the fish is looking directly at me his eyes look very clear. In addition, at different levels in the tank the lighting makes the eyes look cloudier or clearer.
Thanks for the help and a large water change (100 liters) is being prepared as we speak (50 liters are already being aged, heated, since yesterday, another 50 will be done by tomorrow). I believe that I will be able to change the water by Thursday.

 

[beth]

So it looks like the cloudy eye may just be normal. Keep on "eye" out for it to make sure that we're on the right track.
I am familiar with Fenner's writings, and see nothing that conflicts with those statements and our premise that ich does not have to be a factor in a marine tank.
Ick does not just materialize. It is introduced. If you don't introduce it, then you won't have it in your tank.

 

[azeritis]

I thank very much both of you for you help.
By the way I did not mean to be a wise @#@#$...

 

[beth]

Actually, I'm glad you broght the ich in tank water issue up. Opportunity to post correct info about it.
Thanks!