New hobby

[Judye]

I've always wanted a saltwater tank. I started small so I can learn. I have 4 gallon tank with two live rock and live sand. The store said don't touch the sand. I purchaged several little crabs and snails to help keep the tank clean. But the crabs are not cleaning the sand. They seem to only want to hang on my live rocks. And the snails are slow at cleaning the glass. My sand is looking pretty bad. Should I get a bottom feeder fish?
And when I feed the my two small snowflake clown fish the pellets sink to the bottom adding to the dirty looking bottom. They won't eat any food that sink to the bottom. Should I try smashing the food for a while till they grow bigger? And my last question for now... How often do I change the water. The store said once a week. That seems really often and do I change the entire tank or just half the tank?

Thanks

 

[trigger40]

a 4 gallon tank is a very, very tiny tank so it will be more difficult to care for than a larger tank. its be cause the tank has less water and things will get nasty fast. so you have little room for error. your tank is also to small for a clown fish let alone two. when your tank is new it will go through many stages of algae. how did you cycle your tank?

 

[pegasus]

Not saying it can't be done, but it will be extremely difficult for a newbie to maintain a 4 gallon tank. As trigger said, things will get nasty fast. Anything that happens can happen so quickly that you may not have time to correct the problem. They can literally turn over overnight. Micro tanks are best left to the professionals. Most people here will tell you that when you decide to take the saltwater plunge... go big. Problems occur more slowly in larger tanks, and this gives people a chance to figure out what's wrong, and if needed, time to research it to find the solution. Bigger is better. On the other hand, if you can learn to master the small tank, you will have the knowledge to maintain a large tank. Either way, best of luck to you.

Two clowns in a 4 gallon tank is too much. Most clowns grow to be around 4 inches long, and they eat a lot. Big eaters make big poop. Big poop in a small enclosure is a recipe for disaster. Not trying to discourage you, as we are always happy to see people getting into the hobby. We only want you to be aware of the difficulty the small tank is going to present. If it goes sour, many people will say, "Well, I tried.", and never attempt it again. They don't know what they are missing, because it's a hobby like no other. Tropical fish will suddenly seem boring, and many of us walk right past the freshwater fish without even so much as a glance. I won't tell you that it's not expensive, because it can be. With comparative shopping, and not going first-class this and first-class that, it can easily be done "reasonably". To do it right takes time, patience, money, and a pinch of knowledge. Don't rush into your purchased, be patient as you slowly develop the system, buy the proper equipment, and learn all you can about the basics and the animals you intend to keep. Prior knowledge is far better than learning things the hard way... and less costly. There are lots of people on this site that are more than willing to walk you step-by-step through the process, so never be afraid to ask question. That's how we learn things, and that's the purpose of this site.

That said, welcome to saltwaterfish forum, and welcome to the wonderful world of saltwaterfish!!!

 

[Judye]

a 4 gallon tank is a very, very tiny tank so it will be more difficult to care for than a larger tank. its be cause the tank has less water and things will get nasty fast. so you have little room for error. your tank is also to small for a clown fish let alone two. when your tank is new it will go through many stages of algae. how did you cycle your tank?

I've always wanted a saltwater tank. I started small so I can learn. I have 4 gallon tank with two live rock and live sand. The store said don't touch the sand. I purchaged several little crabs and snails to help keep the tank clean. But the crabs are not cleaning the sand. They seem to only want to hang on my live rocks. And the snails are slow at cleaning the glass. My sand is looking pretty bad. Should I get a bottom feeder fish?
And when I feed the my two small snowflake clown fish the pellets sink to the bottom adding to the dirty looking bottom. They won't eat any food that sink to the bottom. Should I try smashing the food for a while till they grow bigger? And my last question for now... How often do I change the water. The store said once a week. That seems really often and do I change the entire tank or just half the tank?

Thanks

Not saying it can't be done, but it will be extremely difficult for a newbie to maintain a 4 gallon tank. As trigger said, things will get nasty fast. Anything that happens can happen so quickly that you may not have time to correct the problem. They can literally turn over overnight. Micro tanks are best left to the professionals. Most people here will tell you that when you decide to take the saltwater plunge... go big. Problems occur more slowly in larger tanks, and this gives people a chance to figure out what's wrong, and if needed, time to research it to find the solution. Bigger is better. On the other hand, if you can learn to master the small tank, you will have the knowledge to maintain a large tank. Either way, best of luck to you.

Two clowns in a 4 gallon tank is too much. Most clowns grow to be around 4 inches long, and they eat a lot. Big eaters make big poop. Big poop in a small enclosure is a recipe for disaster. Not trying to discourage you, as we are always happy to see people getting into the hobby. We only want you to be aware of the difficulty the small tank is going to present. If it goes sour, many people will say, "Well, I tried.", and never attempt it again. They don't know what they are missing, because it's a hobby like no other. Tropical fish will suddenly seem boring, and many of us walk right past the freshwater fish without even so much as a glance. I won't tell you that it's not expensive, because it can be. With comparative shopping, and not going first-class this and first-class that, it can easily be done "reasonably". To do it right takes time, patience, money, and a pinch of knowledge. Don't rush into your purchased, be patient as you slowly develop the system, buy the proper equipment, and learn all you can about the basics and the animals you intend to keep. Prior knowledge is far better than learning things the hard way... and less costly. There are lots of people on this site that are more than willing to walk you step-by-step through the process, so never be afraid to ask question. That's how we learn things, and that's the purpose of this site.

That said, welcome to saltwaterfish forum, and welcome to the wonderful world of saltwaterfish!!!

Thank you everyone. It sounds like I have my work cut out for me.. I want to get a bigger tank this summer. I need to save $$$ for the tank and stand. I purchased this little tank form a fish store that had it already done and ready to go. I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank. Its fun watching them watching me. I don't have a huge space but I can put another 20 gallon in my place. The size is probably why the store told me to change the water once a week. I just changed it today and everyone is happy. And I saw the female nudge the male for the first time. He quivered which is funny. So if I can keep this one for for a couple more months.... I'll keep my eye open for a large tank and stand. I really want to make this work.

 

[flower]

Hi,

Welcome to the site... just to explain a little, 10g tanks are considered expert only, and a 4g I wouldn't even try.

I understand your logic to get a small tank just to get your feet wet and learn, however the opposite is true when it comes to saltwater tanks. I would hate to see you get discouraged because a tiny tank is too hard. The chances of a 4g tank taking a nose dive is 99%

When I was a girl, I ordered those seahorses from the back of a comic book. The poor things died in one day, and I didn't try seahorses until I was in my 50s, thinking they were too delicate to keep. Turns out that captive bred seahorses are as easy to care for as any saltwater fish if your tank is set up right. That one bad experience discouraged me so much, that I waited 40 years before getting the one kind of fish that I loved most. You should rethink it, and get at least a 30g to learn with.

 

[pegasus]

I didn't answer your question about water changes. It depends on how much uneaten food is in the tank, and the number of creatures you have creating waste. Two fish, several crabs and snails may not seem like much, but you have to remember that they live in only 4 gallons of water. It won't take long to pollute such a small volume of water. You cannot put enough rocks and live sand in that size tank to have a noticeable benefit when it comes to natural filtration. You will have to remove the polluted water and replace it with fresh. I wouldn't think you'd have to replace any more than 50% weekly, but it would be better to replace around 25% twice a week. This way, toxic levels won't build up as much between water changes. Do you have any type of external filtration? What about test kit(s)? When you feed your fish, small amounts of phosphate is released from the food. If the food goes uneaten, it creates ammonia as it breaks down. The food that the fish and inverts eat creates ammonia in the form of waste. IF you have enough rock and sand, bacteria will colonize these and start to consume the ammonia. The waste from that bacteria is in the form of nitrite. Given time, bacteria will colonize that consumes nitrite, and it's waste product is nitrate. This is what is called the nitrogen cycle. When people talk about "cycling" your tank, they mean you physically start the process by creating ammonia... often by adding fish food (ghost feeding) to an empty tank. Then you test your water for each of the steps in the cycle. When it reaches the nitrate stage with no ammonia or nitrite detected, it's time for a large water change (50%). The tank is usually ready to slowly start stocking. As each new addition is added, you should wait to let the system adjust to the added load. Not completely cycling a new tank, or adding too many fish at once will break the cycle, and it basically has to start all over. This is when bad things start to happen.

If your fish are not eating all of the food, you are overfeeding and subsequently polluting the tank. If they do not choose to eat the food provided, you should try another kind of food. You want them to eat good, but only what they can consume in 3 minutes or less. A common mistake it to think that the fish will eat the leftover food later. They might, but it's polluting the tank in the meantime. That small tank won't take long to reach toxic levels, so feed sparingly. Think of it this way... if you were confined in a container of water for the rest of your life, and you had to pee and poop in that same container, would you rather be in a bathtub-sized enclosure, or an olympic-sized swimming pool? As gross as that sounds, it's the condition your fish are living in. Obviously, the waste would be far more diluted in an olypic-sized pool than a bathtub, so it would take much longer for it to reach toxic levels. It will require the water to be changed more frequently in the smaller container to maintain those same levels. That's why you need to change the water so often. It's late, I'm rambling, and I hope I didn't offend or gross you out. I feel that analogy will have a solid impact and help you understand the challenge ahead of you.

 

[Bryce E]

Hi Judye

Do you have a magnet cleaner for your glass? You can clean the glass all the time, no need to save glass algae for your snails, they will eat it off of the rocks and sand. just be careful not to get any sand/rocks in between the magnet and the glass if your tank is acrylic, it will scratch it really bad.

And what do you mean your sand looks bad? Can you post a picture?

As far as adding a bottom feeder fish, what you would be looking for is a sand sifting star fish or a sand sifting goby... except I would not recommend adding anything else to that tank simply because of it's size and what you already have in it.

I change 10% to 20% of the water in all of my tanks weekly. If it's a 4 gallon tank and you have live rock and sand then you have less than 4 gallons of actual water in the tank. What do you have for making water? When I first started in the hobby I used tap water for top off as well as water changes (one of the biggest novice mistakes you can make) Even for a tank that doesn't have corals I do not recommend doing that.

Also, you said that the clowns aren't getting to the pellets and they are sinking to the bottom further making your tank ugly.

This is at the top of my list.... in fact it is rule #1 in my house - DO NOT OVERFEED THE TANK.

Now a couple of extra pellets are fine and will be found by the crabs but anything more than that will be the doom of your precious Eco system. Like Pegasus said do not feed your fish anymore than you can see them eat in a 3 minute period. I usually go a step further on this and I don't pour/put all the food in all at once that I intend to feed my tank in a single setting. I put a small amount in, let them eat it and repeat until they have consumed what I intend to give them. That gives them the opportunity to eat all the food and not have the leftovers rotting in the system.

I would recommend getting frozen food for your tank.

-Mysis shrimp
-Blood worms
-Brine shrimp

And remember that a little goes a long way! And always rinse/strain the food before putting it in your tank

 

[Judye]

I didn't answer your question about water changes. It depends on how much uneaten food is in the tank, and the number of creatures you have creating waste. Two fish, several crabs and snails may not seem like much, but you have to remember that they live in only 4 gallons of water. It won't take long to pollute such a small volume of water. You cannot put enough rocks and live sand in that size tank to have a noticeable benefit when it comes to natural filtration. You will have to remove the polluted water and replace it with fresh. I wouldn't think you'd have to replace any more than 50% weekly, but it would be better to replace around 25% twice a week. This way, toxic levels won't build up as much between water changes. Do you have any type of external filtration? What about test kit(s)? When you feed your fish, small amounts of phosphate is released from the food. If the food goes uneaten, it creates ammonia as it breaks down. The food that the fish and inverts eat creates ammonia in the form of waste. IF you have enough rock and sand, bacteria will colonize these and start to consume the ammonia. The waste from that bacteria is in the form of nitrite. Given time, bacteria will colonize that consumes nitrite, and it's waste product is nitrate. This is what is called the nitrogen cycle. When people talk about "cycling" your tank, they mean you physically start the process by creating ammonia... often by adding fish food (ghost feeding) to an empty tank. Then you test your water for each of the steps in the cycle. When it reaches the nitrate stage with no ammonia or nitrite detected, it's time for a large water change (50%). The tank is usually ready to slowly start stocking. As each new addition is added, you should wait to let the system adjust to the added load. Not completely cycling a new tank, or adding too many fish at once will break the cycle, and it basically has to start all over. This is when bad things start to happen.

If your fish are not eating all of the food, you are overfeeding and subsequently polluting the tank. If they do not choose to eat the food provided, you should try another kind of food. You want them to eat good, but only what they can consume in 3 minutes or less. A common mistake it to think that the fish will eat the leftover food later. They might, but it's polluting the tank in the meantime. That small tank won't take long to reach toxic levels, so feed sparingly. Think of it this way... if you were confined in a container of water for the rest of your life, and you had to pee and poop in that same container, would you rather be in a bathtub-sized enclosure, or an olympic-sized swimming pool? As gross as that sounds, it's the condition your fish are living in. Obviously, the waste would be far more diluted in an olypic-sized pool than a bathtub, so it would take much longer for it to reach toxic levels. It will require the water to be changed more frequently in the smaller container to maintain those same levels. That's why you need to change the water so often. It's late, I'm rambling, and I hope I didn't offend or gross you out. I feel that analogy will have a solid impact and help you understand the challenge ahead of you.

thank you !!!! you didn't gross me out. Its exactly what I was needing to hear (or read about). I started crumbing the food so it floats a bit longer, giving them more time to eat before it sinks. I'm also feeding less. They are starting to figure out they better eat now cause its nothing until the evening. I wish I could get a larger tank right now, but I need to give it at least a month. I just paid a vet bit that hurt the wallet. Again,, thank you, thank you !!!

 

[pegasus]

You're welcome. Good job on the reduced feedings. If you feed fish every time they look hungry, your fish would be dead in 2 days. They always look hungry! But they're not. They can survive, and even thrive, on very meager portions. I understand about finances, so don't worry too much about it. Just do what you can, when you can. We'll be here to help if needed.