LED vs. T5HO

[seecrabrun]

I have heard of people using 2 orbits with some SPS and having success. There was a long discussion I was in about personal experience with the light and ways to program it. Didn't happen here.

I like the features the light has, but the build quality could be better. For the price, that is expected. I just returned one to orbit because it started leaking volts through the housing and shocked me. The screws and legs also had some rusting.

They were actually really great about it though, so I'm impressed with their customer service. They sent me a return label via email and then mailed the replacement back, all via FedEx and no charge to me. I'd had the light for 7-8 months, so still in warranty period.

They recommended I put a lid on the tank to keep the light away from any accidental splashes. I'm not going to, but I did make sure to check all my equipment placement to make sure nothing is misting water off the surface.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I guess I'll have to find that thread your talking about.

I have a friend that is using 4 units of 5, 3w CREE LEDs over his tank... Roughly 60 watts of LED over a 180g tank with SPS and other Lps and an anemone. I don't see how. I guess corals adapt.

 

[seecrabrun]

I think the technology is there, but it is hit and miss as to who has the right combo.

Low end lights could, just by chance, have the right combo while others mostly don't.

And yes living beings adapt.

 

[kopczynski]

I have the orbit fixture over my tank. All my corals do well, I have seen growth on my montipora(only spa piece in the tank) over the last month. They are not strong enough to keep anemones alive, my second BTA just bleached and I won't being buying anymore of them. They move away from the light no matter where I put them, and eventually they just bleach and shrivel up. I'm thinking about getting a torch coral to mimic the anemone look. On a more positive note my Duncan has grown two new heads this month, my hammer grew one more as well. All my ZOA's and soft corals grow rapidly.

 

[Bryce E]

I definitely think that Led lighting still has a way to go but it is already fairly comparable to older/stable lighting and is far more efficient. I think this is the main reason that the technology will move in that direction and dominate the industry in no time. The price will come down and the units will improve. It's only a matter of time.

There have been scientific studies done on the effectiveness of led lighting on corals and the results were that they do work. Obviously there are going to be a lot of factors but they do indeed work and it's the direction I'm going. Snake I thought you were even a fan of the Chinese leds? Have a change of heart? We're you growing corals under those units?

 

[pegasus]

I think that snake is realizing that it's a crap shoot when it comes to cheap LED's. You might get lucky and score one that actually works like it's supposed to. Then again, the odds are that you won't. The price goes up (rapidly) with quality, so don't expect too much out of a set of $200 LED's. Yes, the technology exists to create fixtures that will provide everything your corals need to thrive, and it is being manufactured by specialized companies. The problem is the cost of R&D, as well as the high cost of latest gen LED's and quality components, is putting these high-tech lamps out of the reach of mainstream users. These aren't your over-the-counter Cree emmiters daisy-chained to a slab of aluminum... these are the best of the best. They command a high price tag, and rightfully so.

You're right, Bryce... it's only a matter of time before these "truly" full spectrum lights will be commonplace. I don't see these fixtures flooding the market in the near future, but they will come. The demand is too high for it not to happen. Until then, we common folk are stuck with knockoff LED's... or an alternate light source. Until I can afford "good" LED's, I'll stick with what's already proven to work. Just my 2c...

 

[pegasus]

For instance: A fixture will take 30 Cree XT-E Royal Blue 450nm (in D37/37 and Intensity Bin P01/Q01), 10 Cree XT-E Premium Cool White LED, 4 Cree XT-E Warm White LED, and a 48V DC power supply just to get close to the output of a single 400W MH? This is good for a 24"-30" wide tank with 225 PAR @ 30" deep. It would take two of these fixtures to cover a 48" long tank. These can be found in DIY kits for around $500 each, and you'll need something like an Apex controller to operate them. Even if you build it yourself, it'll cost a cool $1K, plus the cost of a PWM controller, just to light up a 48" SPS tank.

If you can find a manufacturer that markets LED fixtures with these components for the price of a $500 DIY kit, I would strongly encourage you to buy one, or two, or three, depending on your coverage needs. If you want to grow softies and a few low-light LPS, then you can probably get by with some cheap 10K-12K with sprinkles of Actinic mixed in. The goal is for the LED's to peak at 450nm, as this is the wavelength that corals use for growth. All else is for "color pop". Dimmable LED's using current reduction lose spectrum dramatically, as opposed to Pulse Width Modulation, which causes the LED's to "flicker". The LED's pulse faster than the eye can see, but it gives the illusion of dimming, all while the LED's are retaining correct wavelength.

 

[Saltyskimmer]

@pegasus I thought I had this light thing figured out but now you have me thinking. What you say makes a lot of sense. Any suggestions on where to research lighting? My next big purchase is a light fixture, now I definitely want to reconsider LED's

 

[snakeblitz33]

@pegasus I thought I had this light thing figured out but now you have me thinking. What you say makes a lot of sense. Any suggestions on where to research lighting? My next big purchase is a light fixture, now I definitely want to reconsider LED's

Pegasus sounds like he knows a lot about LEDs, but don't let the fancy terms and numbers change your mind.

There are many people who have and use cheap Chinese LEDs with a lot of success growing and coloring up corals of all varieties.

 

[pegasus]

I'm not trying to deter you from buying LED lighting, I just want you to be aware that the vast majority of LED lights on the market are not all they claim to be. Some people get lucky and buy a fixture that will grow corals, but it's luck of the draw when that happens. The chances of success are greater the farther up the investment ladder you climb. If you buy top of the line fixture(s), you get top of the line performance. Anything less, and you are taking a gamble that you'll be able to grow the corals you want... basically limiting yourself to what you can or can't have.

There are no corals that can't be grown under T5 lights. NONE. If you plan to have an SPS dominant tank, go with an 8 - 10 bulb fixture the length of your tank. I have mixed corals (soft, LPS & SPS), and I'm getting good results with a 6 bulb lamp that's 2' shorter than my tank. Three of the bulbs are on for 12 hours per day, and the other three are on for 3 hours per day. I'm slowly adding more SPS, and will probably bump the 3 bulbs to 4 hours per day. My corals are doing great, and I have too much invested in them to risk losing them to sub-par lighting. T5 is a tried-and-true method. I can't turn a knob or tweak a digital graph to change the colors, but I can change the colors by changing a bulb or two. I can't ramp up the lights to simulate dawn and dusk, but there are T5 fixtures that can do that. Mandy111 has one on her new tank. She also has $4,500 worth of corals in that tank. She has an 8 bulb ATI fixture with dimmer, and it's mounted fairly high above her tank. My 6 bulb lamp is mounted 23" above the sandbed, which gives plenty of light to the lower light requiring corals down there, and gives plenty of light to the high light requiring SPS at the top of my rocks. T5 doesn't shimmer on the sandbed like LED, but there's less shadowing of the corals because T5 is not a Point Of Source (POS) light. Just as plants grow towards the light source, your corals will do the same. T5 light is so dispersed, it appears to come from everywhere, so corals tend to spread out. LED can give a good spread by changing the lenses to wide angle, but by doing so, it reduces the amount of PAR dramatically. Reduced PAR equals reduced PUR.

Other than the lower cost of operation, and the bells and whistles that come with LED, I can't justify paying that much difference to accomplish what I can already do. The lifespan of "high quality" LED compared to T5 is much higher, up to 50K hours, but they will eventually fail. Then you have to replace an array or module. How much will that set you back? I'm sure you can buy a lot of T5 bulbs for what one of those would cost. The choice is up to you. It's your tank, your corals, and your money. Do you feel lucky???

 

[mandy111]

We are wanting the new giesmann Arora. Best of both worlds. Get the great growth & health from my corals with T5s & aesthetic colours that I like for viewing with the LEDs )

 

[Saltyskimmer]

@pegasus I appreciate your insight!

 

[pegasus]

We are wanting the new giesmann Arora. Best of both worlds. Get the great growth & health from my corals with T5s & aesthetic colours that I like for viewing with the LEDs )

I really like the looks of that hybrid lamp. I wish the description would tell if the LED's were PWM dimmable, or voltage reduction dimmable. PWM makes a big difference in the life of LED's. Voltage reduction dimming actually uses more electricity when the LED's are dim than when they're at 100% current, and generates more heat which shortens the life of the emitters. I'll have to check into that...

 

[pegasus]

In my previous post, I wrote: "there's less shadowing of the corals because T5 is not a Point Of Source (POS) light." Nobody noticed that I actually said T5 isn't a "POS" light... lol!!!

 

[pegasus]

I'm considering this unit and replacing the bulbs. I don't know how wide this unit is yet though.

Product Dimensions: 46.8 inches x 2.3 inches x 24.2 inches; 29 pounds

 

[snakeblitz33]

Yeah, I found that after I posted. That would be ok for a bigger tank but not for mine.

I honestly can't wait until I can buy my LEDs again.

 

[pegasus]

Yeah, I found that after I posted. That would be ok for a bigger tank but not for mine.

I honestly can't wait until I can buy my LEDs again.

This is the light I have on my 125. Of course, I didn't pay that much for it. I got it for $60 less on ebay. I also have the 36" version of it on my 40B. ATI bulbs in both...
http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Lighting-Light-Holds-Fluorescent/dp/B00G7TJ8AG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1426040376&sr=8-3&keywords=t5+ho+aquarium+lighting

 

[snakeblitz33]

Cool, but I think the mods might take down the link in a minute. I saw it though. Not a bad price. I think though that I will stick with the LEDs that I want to purchase.